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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5684
Loc: Inner Solar System
Mars is killing me! new
      #3425195 - 11/02/09 09:52 AM

So I get up at 3:00 AM on 11/1 to open the observatory and get things ready to sketch Mars. Even though the obs. is unheated, I let the scope sit under the open sky for about an hour to come to temp. Then I spend two more hours trying to see Mars at ~600x, and seeing nothing but a blurry fuzzball. The sky is beautiful and clear, but the friggafraggin air current keeps foiling me.

Except for one split second, when Mars snapped into perfect focus and I could see the perfect, sharp outlines of the polar cap and dark areas - then it was gone again, and I didn't get enough of a look to recognize anything. Just enough to taunt me!

I stayed at it until 6:00, then I had to bag it and get some sleep. This has been happening to me every time I try for Mars! When I de-focus, I can see the air currents whipping by. I ordered a Cat Cooler, in the hopes that some of it might be tube currents; but the scope stays ambient most all the time, so it's a forlorn hope.

Anyone else going crazy trying to see our red neighbor?

--------------------
- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!


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tigerroach
sage


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 465
Loc: Houston, TX
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3425205 - 11/02/09 10:00 AM

Heh, yeah I had my first go at Mars for this opposition last Friday morning, with similar results. With a 4" scope, even 176x was too much power for the seeing conditions.

I did get some glimpses of the polar cap and albedo features at 98x. Enough to wet my appetite for more.

--------------------
Brian

TeleVue TV-102, Gibralter alt-az mount
Webster 14.5" f/4.3 truss dob *under construction*
Canon 10x30 & 15x50 IS binocs



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WillCarney
member


Reged: 10/08/09
Posts: 35
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3425562 - 11/02/09 01:51 PM

Just wait till butt cold January-Febuary.
We usually have some really clear nights
that time of year, if you can tolerate -10.
Opposition is coming so it will be closer
at that time by a little.
William


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starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 620
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3425873 - 11/02/09 04:56 PM

Quote:

So I get up at 3:00 AM on 11/1 to open the observatory and get things ready to sketch Mars. Even though the obs. is unheated, I let the scope sit under the open sky for about an hour to come to temp. Then I spend two more hours trying to see Mars at ~600x, and seeing nothing but a blurry fuzzball. The sky is beautiful and clear, but the friggafraggin air current keeps foiling me.

Except for one split second, when Mars snapped into perfect focus and I could see the perfect, sharp outlines of the polar cap and dark areas - then it was gone again, and I didn't get enough of a look to recognize anything. Just enough to taunt me!

I stayed at it until 6:00, then I had to bag it and get some sleep. This has been happening to me every time I try for Mars! When I de-focus, I can see the air currents whipping by. I ordered a Cat Cooler, in the hopes that some of it might be tube currents; but the scope stays ambient most all the time, so it's a forlorn hope.

Anyone else going crazy trying to see our red neighbor?




For the most part Rick , I'll wait until it gets a little closer to opposition although I do need to get at least one peek at it as it runs through the Beehive !

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1075
Loc: Suburban Maryland
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: starrancher]
      #3425973 - 11/02/09 06:05 PM

The best views of Mars I ever had was back in the early '70s through a 4.25" f/10 Edmund Newt on a pedestal GEM, even though it had a spherical mirror! I saw Syrtis Major, Sabaeus Sinus and Meridiani Sinus, the south pole, a darkening around the pole, and other dark areas and shadings. Of course, it was a close opposition, I was out in the dark country at my Dad's house, and my eyes were almost 40 years younger.

Mike

--------------------
Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!


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zanti-misfit
member


Reged: 08/17/09
Posts: 88
Loc: SE United States
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #3426769 - 11/03/09 02:14 AM

Yeah I just spent an hour trying to get a good view of Mars in the Beehive. At low power it was ok sure. But high mags brought nothing but a shimmering blob. As the night went on it tried to clear up a little at 133x, but still wasn't clear enough for detail.

I'm hoping that as the months go on, and I can get out there with it up higher in the sky, that the views will improve a bit.

Course I did get some excellent views of the Orion Nebula, and a variety of open clusters..full moon always makes it challenging but still got some decent time in. I loved being out there for sure.


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dfell
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/25/05
Posts: 583
Loc: Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: zanti-misfit]
      #3427052 - 11/03/09 09:35 AM

Every morning I go out and see the moon through hazy cloudy upper stratus cloud. The rest of the week looks to be a little better though colder, here's hoping.

--------------------
www.spacealberta.com
12" collapsible Dob
25" Round Table Platform
Ethos 13mm
original TV smoothside plossls
80mm f/15 Towa Refractor
PST


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Illinois
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 693
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: dfell]
      #3427258 - 11/03/09 11:41 AM

Crazy? You are not only one! I have hard time to see anything from my 80mmED refractor and 10" Dobsonian! Maybe wait until January when the Mars get closer to Earth. Maybe something to do with my backyard ..... light pollution is pretty bad!

--------------------
Astronomer since 1975!

Orion 80mm ED refractor and
iOptron CubePro mount
Meade 16" Lightbridge Dobsonian
Orion 10" SkyQuest Classic Dobsonian
Tele Vue Eyepieces
Canon EOS XS 1000D
Orion Planetary 5 mm and
Orion Expanse Wide-Field 6mm eyepiece
4.5" F5 Reflector since 1982!
Orion Narrowband and SkyGlow filters
Member of IDA, let's fight light pollution!

Old Edmund 6"F8...donated to cousins
Super Polaris C8...donated to Byron Observatory in Illinois


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dfell
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/25/05
Posts: 583
Loc: Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Illinois]
      #3428932 - 11/04/09 10:22 AM

Had a good session this AM from 0400 to 0600, still processing images, a little hazy but steady seeing, gotta love those Arctic highs. Will post in a new thread later.

--------------------
www.spacealberta.com
12" collapsible Dob
25" Round Table Platform
Ethos 13mm
original TV smoothside plossls
80mm f/15 Towa Refractor
PST


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SteveE
sage
*****

Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 281
Loc: La Louisiane
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3433614 - 11/06/09 07:33 PM

What's Mars?

But seriously, I go back to it from time to time, hoping for a stroke of luck but always leaving disillusioned.

--------------------
SteveE

Obsession 18 f/4.5; CPC 1100/Hyperstar/Mallincam; some backyard stuff and binoculars


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Pete Kopfer
member


Reged: 12/01/08
Posts: 86
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: SteveE]
      #3433857 - 11/06/09 10:12 PM

600x - wow! No doubt I'm in way over my head with only 90mm. By the time I got out this morning at around 5:30 am Mars was fairly high up and I got a sharp but very tiny disc, of course. Maybe some dark area (or maybe that was just a persistent floater). No roiling or dancing around at least. It will get better.

Pete


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Jim Rosenstock
Post Laureate
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Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 3727
Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3434082 - 11/07/09 02:35 AM

Observing Mars requires large measures of two things: patience and imagination.

Even when I'm seeing no detail but a disc, I just love the natural unfiltered color of Mars and don't mind the waiting...

Possibly the prettiest views right now are widefield, as Mars dances past the Beehive...I'll get more serious about high magnification observing a little later this year, I'm sure.

Enjoy,

Jim


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payner
sage
*****

Reged: 03/22/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Bluegrass Region, Kentucky
Re: Mars is killing me! new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3434449 - 11/07/09 11:03 AM

I thought it time to begin occasional observations of Mars this morning, so off to bed early I went. I got up at about 0300, and had the telescope and accessories out and ready to go by about 0345. I noticed some high, thin cirrus clouds, but most of the sky was clear, and so it was in the south and SSE. Temperature was in the low 40s, and seeing was not particularly good, average at 3/5. I decided to take the MK91 out, the decision was made before going to bed earlier, and after setting it up I realized I should have set up the FS-128. Because of the narrow observing window the Mak never completely reached thermal equilibrium, in addition to unsteady skies. I was disappointed, but did manage to glimpse some surface features and the polar cap during fleeting moments of better seeing; I decided to call it a session at about 0515. This was the first time I tried the TV Mars T B filter, and while I can't make a critical determination about it, I'd say I'm optimistic with what it will do under better seeing.
Nevertheless it was a beautiful, quiet early Saturday morning under the stars. No room to complain too much. Happy observing to each of you.
Randy

--------------------
Santel MK91 Deluxe Rumak
Takahashi FS-128
Takahashi FS-152
Takahashi TSC-225


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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1075
Loc: Suburban Maryland
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: payner]
      #3434636 - 11/07/09 12:40 PM

I had a similar experience as Randy had.

I took my Bosma 6" Mak out last night to look at the Moon and then Mars. Maks tend to have a long cool-down period, so I laid it on the front porch for about an hour before I set it up on my driven CG4 at the side of my house. (I should have put it on the CG5 instead, as the CG4 was a little light for the 6" and it's counterweights. It showed some vibration and the drives seemed to have trouble moving it - and/or the batteries need to be replaced or were too cold. Well, you don't know what will work until you try it. CG5 next time.)

The seeing was good 4/5 according to the Clear Sky Chart. IMHO, it was merely OK. Even after the 6" Mak had three hours to cool down, the image of Mars was still wavering, with moments of clearer seeing. In other words, about usual for central Maryland. I tried a #23A Light Red, a #21 Orange, an Orion Mars filter, and the Mars filter stacked with a #82A Light Blue. The Mars filter with or with out the Light Blue seemed to be best. I have a #85 Salmon, which is supposed to be very good for Mars, but it is a 2" and I do not have a 2" visual back for my Mak, so I couldn't try it. (Next time maybe I'll try it on my 8" or 10" Newt. But there's plenty of time.)

I could consistently see the North Polar Cap and the dark band around it. The NPC appears quite a bit smaller than I remember the SPC to be. Sometimes during moments of steadier seeing, I could glimpse darker markings leading from the NPC toward and somewhat beyond the middle of the disk. There seemed to be a long, vaguely triangular patch extending below the NPC, starting from the nw (celestial) and tapering down toward the se, maybe a bit past the mid region of the disk. I'm not sure what features would have been visible at that time (between about 1:30 and 2:30 EST).

Mike

--------------------
Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!


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akemag
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/26/07
Posts: 541
Loc: Sweden
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: Sarkikos]
      #3437542 - 11/09/09 06:59 AM

Sounds like Mars last time around for me, except for the part where the image cleared up!

I DID get some decent views at the end, but it was alot of hard work. But i never regret all those hours out there when i FINALLY did see something. Mars sure knows to throw you that bone, to keep you going. But i hope this time will be better with my 10".

I just havent been able to drag my self out of bed so late(early) just yet, and the weather has been lousy the entire last month.

I´m taking next chance i get here.

--------------------
Celestron Omni XLT 120
Celestron Powerseeker 80EQ
Bresser Skylux 70mm
10" GSO DOB
5mm Ortho
6.5mm, 25mm, 32mm Plossl
3.6mm, 10mm, 25mm MA
20mm Erfle
4mm, 10mm, 12mm, 18mm RK20mm Kellner
8mm, 20mm Huygens
1.5-2x Barlow
Orange, Green, Variable Polarizing Moon filter


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tigerroach
sage


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 465
Loc: Houston, TX
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: akemag]
      #3437609 - 11/09/09 08:25 AM

Quote:

Mars sure knows to throw you that bone, to keep you going.




This is so true. Mars teases you.

But when you are able to get a good view, there is nothing like it. You really get a sense that you are reaching out and touching another world.

I think this coming weekend I will be ready to make my next attempt.

--------------------
Brian

TeleVue TV-102, Gibralter alt-az mount
Webster 14.5" f/4.3 truss dob *under construction*
Canon 10x30 & 15x50 IS binocs



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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1075
Loc: Suburban Maryland
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: akemag]
      #3437691 - 11/09/09 09:37 AM

I tried Mars again Saturday night/Sunday morning, Nov. 7-8. I took out my 8" Newt this time. I hadn't used the 8" for quite a while. It was a happy reunion. The 8" is a lot lighter and the Dob mount is a lot less temperamental than my 10" Newt Dob. I had carefully determined through trial and error the amount of weight (lead sinkers) to put in the sports pack that I strap around the lower end of the OTA as a counterweight. I set it up to balance my heaviest eyepiece when the scope is positioned vertically and horizontally. Now when I insert my lightest eyepiece, I only need to place one 1/2 lb magnetic weight on the OTA directly below the focuser and the scope will balance perfectly. But on to the Mars observation...

I was out between 12:30 and 3:30. According to CLear Sky Chart, the seeing and transparency were both average. First I looked at the Moon with my binoviewer. When I was done, I concentrated on Mars. I experimented with different filters. I tried a #85 Salmon-colored filter which a fellow CNer graciously sent to me. It is a 2" filter, so I screwed it onto the end of my Owl 15mm 2" eyepiece and inserted the eyepiece into my Owl 2x Barlow, which gave me 160x. Mars is so small now, that I couldn't tell at this magnification if the filter was doing a good job or not. I tried screwing the 2" filter onto an extension and inserting my higher power 1.25" eyepieces into the extension, but I didn't have enough in-focus this way. So I think I'll leave further experimentation with the 2" Salmon filter for when Mars comes closer this Winter.

For the 1.25" filters, I used my Smart Astronomy SPL 6mm, TMB 4mm, Coulter Ortho 6mm, and my Baader Genuine Ortho 9mm. I tried a Baader Fringer Killer but it had no appreciable effect on the image. I had already used red, blue, and orange filters the previous night, so I left them alone. I had several DSO filters already loaded in my filter wheel, so I tried them out for fun. There are five slots in the wheel: 1) open (no filter), 2) DGM Optics NPB, 3) Lumicon Deep Sky, 4) Lumicon H-Beta, 5) Lumicon OIII. Of these filters, the Deep Sky is the only one that improved the image of Mars. And it did improve it quite a bit. The polar caps, the dark rings around the caps, and other dark markings did stand out better with more contrast. I had heard that the Orion Sky Glow is a good Mars filter, but I have that in the 2" size only, so I didn't even try it. But it probably performs very much like the Deep Sky on Mars.

In order to have eyepieces come to focus with the filter wheel, I had to screw the OC lens from my binoviewer onto the wheel. This magnified the image about 1.9x. So my 9mm was at 253x, the 6mm was 380x, and the 4mm was 570x. The 9mm Baader G. Ortho showed Mars best, but the others weren't too bad, because Mars is so small now. I could see consistently both polar caps. Both had dark rings around them. The ring bordering the NPC was thicker. Between about 2:30 and 3:30, the SPC seemed about half the size of the NPC, maybe partly because of the tilt of Mars at that time. In moments of clearer seeing, I saw a vague darkish roughly triangular shape extending down from the SPC to the NPC, the narrower apex being at the NPC, and one side of the triangle along the SPC.

Clear Skies,
Mike

--------------------
Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!


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Special Ed
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: Sarkikos]
      #3439243 - 11/09/09 10:39 PM

Mike,

A couple of interesting reports. From the time and your timezone, I'm guessing that the triangular dark patch you saw was Syrtis Major. This was one of the first dark albedo features discovered by Christiaan Huyghens in the 17th century.

--------------------

Michael Rosolina
8" f/10 Orange Tube SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
SVP 3.6" f/13.6 CA Reflector
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery


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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1075
Loc: Suburban Maryland
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: Special Ed]
      #3439270 - 11/09/09 10:51 PM

Ed,

Quote:

From the time and your timezone, I'm guessing that the triangular dark patch you saw was Syrtis Major.




You're probably right. The disk was too small and the atmosphere too unsteady for me to be sure exactly what features I was seeing, except for the poles. I was just happy to be able to see something, and to see it consistently! I consider this training and experimentation to get ready for Mars opposition within a couple months. Mars still won't be very large - only about 14" - but that'll be better than what we're seeing now.

Mike

--------------------
Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!


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dfell
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/25/05
Posts: 583
Loc: Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
Re: Mars is killing me! [Re: Sarkikos]
      #3439790 - 11/10/09 09:45 AM

Keep at it, Mars will pay off when everything comes together...observer, equipment and weather.

--------------------
www.spacealberta.com
12" collapsible Dob
25" Round Table Platform
Ethos 13mm
original TV smoothside plossls
80mm f/15 Towa Refractor
PST


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