Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page
   · Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article   

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
Kal
sage


Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 201
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: carlcat]
      #3408919 - 10/24/09 08:51 PM

If you are not interested on AP anymore, but you still want a compact scope that is easy to set up and transport, I would suggest an 8" CAT. I love both of my APO refractors to death, but when it comes to visual, aperture always wins, and my C11 gets put up on my mount. An 8" CAT is also an easy entry point into planetary AP with a simple modified webcam for under $200 (as long as you have an existing laptop computer handy).

--------------------
CG-11 • 130mm f6.3 StarFire EDF Gran Turismo • SV90TBV • ETX90EC • 25x100 BINOCULARS • Toucam 840K hacked to a 900NC • DSI Pro


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Edwin Quiroga
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/31/08
Posts: 612
Loc: Miranda, Venezuela
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3409011 - 10/24/09 09:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A 100mm refractor is just too small to be one's only telescope.



As one of those poor unfortunate souls with only 102mm of aperture as their only telescope (...)




What about me??? With only a 85mm of aperture... I had a 10-inched scope but I sold it 'cause in four months I used it only three or four times. In one ocassion I took it to very dark skies, driving for several hours. During two days in that dark site I used it only 15 minutes... A lot of clouds!

Many people here would be astonished about how many targets you can see with 3"-4" from really very dark sites (Bortle 1 and 2, in my country we have many sites in this range ). It΄s easier to transport a little scope that a big one to that glorious dark site.

--------------------
TeleVue 85 w/FeatherTouch
Televue Panoptic 35
Pentax XW (3.5, 5, 7, 10, 14, 20)
Pentax XO 2.58


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Karl_Bonner_1982
sage


Reged: 05/13/09
Posts: 308
Loc: Springfield, Oregon (4.5ish ma...
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Mickey]
      #3419871 - 10/30/09 10:13 AM

Few beginners want to spend $2500 on a scope, so I'm going to limit things to triple digit prices.

A good ED scope can be quite compact as long as the f-ratio is moderate. Size, weight and portability will rule out long-focus (f-10 or higher) achros above about 100mm aperture. If you're on a tight budget (say $350) then your best bet would be something like the Orion 90mm f/10 achro with a sturdy mount to go with. Will give good views of the moon and planets and can handle the brighter clusters and nebulae.

An ED 80 with f/7.5 optics is extremely versatile: it can do low power (down to 15x if it has a 2" focuser!) but still up to 200x. Portable, lightweight and easy to use. Color blur is a very minor issue at worst. But the limited aperture isn't great on deep sky. That's why it might be a good idea to get two refractors; perhaps an ED80 and 120ST, with the former for planets and the latter for clusters/nebulae.

If you get the 120ST complete package you'll get a complementary 90 degree diagonal and two eyepieces. If you're on a tight budget and cannot afford the ED 80, an Orion 90 is a decent substitute as long as you have a 90 deg. diagonal to replace the shoddy 45 that comes with this one. Orion 90 achros cost only $100 OTA-only when on sale, so you could just get that and the 120ST, then use the ST's mount and diagonal on the achro!

I'm eyeing the ED80 to replace my Mak because of cooldown times and focal length. I want both wide fields AND high-power for planets, and this scope is great for doing both.

==============

However, given your generous budget you'd be better off with a compact apo. Ask others for brand recommendations. I can only suggest that you stick to 100mm since anything larger in true apo form will be getting VERY expensive and portability becomes a problem.

--------------------
A lot of signatures are just there because people think they are "supposed" to have a signature.

Edited by Karl_Bonner_1982 (10/30/09 10:17 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Brian L
super member


Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 119
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: carlcat]
      #3419907 - 10/30/09 10:30 AM

There is a WO FLT-110 with the TEC optics and the 4" crayford focuser upgrade being offered here for $1750.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3352111/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

There is a lot of discussion about this scope in this thread:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3414539/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

This is a STEAL for one is one of the best 4" refractors ever made. You'll never wish you had a better scope. And, you'll have enough $$ left over for a couple naglers.

--------------------
WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
j3ffr0
sage


Reged: 07/06/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Virginia
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: carlcat]
      #3419911 - 10/30/09 10:34 AM

The Orion premium 110 f7 ED at $999 seems to be good value. Good compromises between aperture/portability and quality/price.

This scope would probably be okay on an Astrotech Voyager mount. I use an ST120 on it all the time. I also think the other smaller scopes you are considering would do fine on an Astrotech Voyager.

--------------------
10" Dob, 127mm Mak, 120mm f5 achro, PST
35, 24 Panoptic; 16, 13, 9, 3-6 Nagler
15, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.8 Ultrascopic
20, 15, 9, 6 Expanse


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mickey
member


Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 26
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: j3ffr0]
      #3421178 - 10/30/09 11:49 PM

Thanks for all the feedback! Lots of information to stew over and I'll probably be stewing over it for a while to come. I tend to work things over and over until I can feel very very confident that what I chose to purchase will be something I'm very happy with.

As I mentioned in my first post I've jumped from SCT, Dobs, back to SCT and then to Refractors for imaging.
Then after reading a post that got me back on track, I decided to skip the idea of imaging and stick to visual observation. However - after more thought I decided I didn't want to completely rule out the idea of imaging sometime in the future.

I then started to reconsider getting an 8" SCT, with the idea that I may eventually get a Refractor and piggyback it on the SCT.
That threw a wrench into my budget though, because now I had to consider a mount that could carry the payload.
Then the weight and portability issues started to factor in.

So here's what I'm now mauling over...
I'm considering the idea of getting a Celestron CGEM 800HD. This would give me more aperture for visual observation, a mount that is fairly portable and a package that would not exceed my budget. Then if I want to try my hand at imaging, well I'll just use the 800HD. If the time came that I felt that imaging is something I'd really like to pursue, and I felt I needed another scope for different imaging purposes, I'd get a refractor that fits the need and just mount it directly to the CGEM and skip the need to piggyback it altogether.

The idea is that this would give me more aperture for visual observation, does not rule out the idea of imaging, keeps my scope fairly portable and keeps me within my budget.

Any comments, different perspectives on my reasoning... good or bad are very welcomed.
And thanks for all the suggestions and help!
Mickey


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 620
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Mickey]
      #3421213 - 10/31/09 12:10 AM

I have yet to see (& maybe I missed) any initial reviews on the Celestron HD . A new optical design that I may have heard a tone of some speculation about . It seems Celestron has been coming out with some innovation in its products more & more but you might want to hold up until some reviews come out .
More than anything , relax & enjoy . ......BTW , ....Antares has a line of 4" long focus achromats offered in 3 different focal lengths . These are built in the tradition of the Unitron fashion . ...Pretty cool stuff ! If I had the money , I tellya what I'd do , I'd probably take a longer look at these Antares units too !

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DLB242
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/29/08
Posts: 545
Loc: Pen Argyl, PA
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Mickey]
      #3421249 - 10/31/09 12:34 AM

Quote:

First I'd like to say, "even though I've owned three telescopes and have viewed the skies off and on over the years, I consider myself a beginner astronomer". I have no starting point, no real knowledge about how best to ask this question other than I've posted below.

I picked up a book called "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" a while back and have read through about half of if so far. I've also been researching websites like Cloudy Nights, reading blogs, reviews, etc. and taking in so much new information, that it makes me dizzy with so many questions and indecision.

What I have learned from all my research is that as a beginner... I should not rush out and buy a telescope. I intend to take that advice, because I want the right telescope for what I wish to do and make the best choice that's within my budget.

So, I've been researching different kinds of telescopes for the past four months. I started out looking into various "8 inch Schmidt-Cassegrains", then I got real interested in "8 inch Dobsonians" and figured it would be a more cost effective solution. But I would like to eventually do some Astrophotography as well, so I started reading more about "Schmidt-Cassegrains". Then sturdy and solid go-to mounts came into the factor... and the price started increasing more and more. I don't want to drop good money into a mount that I will out grow, but the cost began to exceed the budget I've set for my first real telescope, so it was back to the "Dobsonians".

As I continued my reading on "Schmidt-Cassegrains and Dobsonians", I found there where other things that concerned me, like the weight, would they be easy to setup, would I get tired of hauling them in and out of the house.

Eventually all my research lead me to Refractors and after a lot of thought on this I've finally decided that's almost certainly the direction I'll be going in for my future telescope purchase, because from what I've read about Refractors I'll get the best optic quality, with portability and still be able to stay somewhat close to my budget of $2,800.00

The weight of the Refractors I've been looking at along make them vary desirable and photography I've seen on various websites taken with some of the refractors I've read about look very nice.

What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well. After some good advice that keeps true to why I enjoy this hobby, astrophotography is no longer going to factor into my choice of telescopes.

Here are a few Refractors that I've been reading about and really like what I've learned about them so far.
TMB-92 Signature Series
STELLARVUE SV90 APO TRIPLET
Astronomy Technologies AT102ED

To start out with I intend to get a regular (non-computerized) mount. This would allow me to get a decent telescope with an affordable yet good mount to start viewing. Then I could start saving money to purchase a solid goTo mount in the future that I could use for a lifetime and not out grow.

So with all that said I'll get to the point...

Can anyone offer up some Refractor recommendations that hit on the factors listed below, so I can get a good starting point for deeper research into refractors. There's so many to chose from and I figured instead of spending a couple of months just learning about where to start my research... instead I'd ask Refractor owners, "what refractors they recommend, that meets the factors listed below" to help guide me on the right path.
• Visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas
• Somewhat compact
• Not too heavy
• Great optics
• Portable and easy to setup
• Feather Focusing
• Fun to use
• Budget of $2,800.00

Also recommendations on a good solid non-computerized mount I could start out with that would be helpful too.

Thanks,
Mickey




Since you are not looking to do AP I would got with the 102ED. Also look at the Stellarvue SV102ED with the Feather Touch it is only $100 more than the AT102ED and you will be getting a real Feather Touch focuser not the add on offered on the AT102ED. With the money you want to spend you can get a 102ED from either Astro Tech or Stellarvue with a goto mount. Stellarvue is selling the SV102ED with a Celestron CGEM for $2294.00 http://www.stellarvue.com/ see the box on the home page. If you add the Feather Touch a 2" diagonal and a case you come in at $2817.50. But you don't need the CGEM for visual the Celestron CG-5 ASGT or Meade LXD-75 will do quite well with either 102ED and you can use the money for some nice eyepieces.

--------------------
David B



10" f/5 DOB
6" f/8 DOB
Celestron C8
Antares 1529 6" f/6.5 MoonLite Focuser
Orion ShortTube 130mm f/5 Reflector
Stellarvue SV102BV f/8.7 LOMO Doublet APO
Stellarvue SV90T f/7 Fluorite
Synta ShortTube 80
Stellarvue SV70ED


Edited by DLB242 (10/31/09 12:52 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Brian L
super member


Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 119
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: DLB242]
      #3421520 - 10/31/09 08:35 AM

If you don't want to focus on AP, perhaps a refractor isn't the best scope for you. The statement that refractors have the best optical quality is NOT a universal truth. There are advantages to not having a central obstruction, particularly at low magnifications, but for visual work I think that you will find many other telescope designs provide excellent image quality for less $$ per inch of aperture. For visual observing, aperture is king. You can spend a LOT of money on a premium quality 4" refractor, but there is nothing magical about them (unless you have an AP or a TEC, of course). Newer SCT designs like the Meade ACF and Celestron HD as well as the Vixen cassegrain VC-200L and VMC200L provide excellent optical quality free of detectible aberrations to the visual observer. You will definitely be able to observe more objects with a large SCT or dob than you could with a premium 4" refractor. The diffraction limit of a larger scope also means that theoretically you can resolve greater detail at high power. Many would say that the best amateur scope for planetary observing is the Celestron C-11 or C-14. I don't know what the light pollution is like where you live, but a 4" refractor will not compete with a 10-12" SCT for visual observing of globular clusters and nebula. And, you can do some nice photography with these instruments.

If weight and portability are a concern, take a look at the Vixen VMC-200L or VC-200L. Otherwise, I'd look for a used C-11 or Meade ACF.

--------------------
WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 620
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Brian L]
      #3421695 - 10/31/09 11:29 AM

Hey Mickey ; I'm really starting to think that a Schmidt Cassigrain would be the best thing for you . They really are pretty much the best all around performer , very versatile , portable as well as a good platform for AP . No need to go big . An 8 inch will show an amazing amount of what's to be seen visually , it keeps you light & small enough that a real beefy mount isn't required if AP is desired & you would be able to stay within your budget even with the purchase of extra goodies like oculars & filter etc. that you know you're going to want .

--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom Faller
member
*****

Reged: 08/07/06
Posts: 66
Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner [Re: Mickey]
      #3428351 - 11/03/09 10:24 PM

Mickey:

About five years ago, I had read my second edition of "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" down to the glue in the spine and was still trying to make up my mind about the best scope I could buy. A big difference was that I already had two 8" Dobsonians and my budget was only $900. I chose a 5" Mak-Cass from Orion and immediately was sucked in to all-nighters by the huge improvement in optics and flexibility over my poorly-mirrored Newts-on-a-turntable. Well, five years later I've completely rebuilt one Dob, built a 12" truss Dob and have gone through two refractors. I've been to dozens of star parties and outings and have looked through a lot of good telescopes. My biggest lesson is that one scope, no matter how good, does not do everything you want. And the second lesson is that next-to-best is still pretty darn good.

You may not want to take astrophotos right now, but a cheap adapter makes your existing digital snapshot camera pretty darn good for casual pictures, and your real limits are the quality of your mount, so I'd suggest not limiting yourself to a Dob or a cheaper mount. It also makes casual observing easier, but where it really shines is when you take your scope out and show it off for others - either around your neighborhood, at parties, or as part of a club. You don't spend all of your time putting Jupiter back in they eyepiece and can relax and talk to people about your scope. Yet buying a really good mount adds enough weight that it defeats the purpose of owning a nice handy refractor - the ease of instantly setting it up where you want. I've got an 80mm refractor on a GEQ mount sitting next to the back door and an 8" Dob. The Dob is by far the lighter of the two.

But as another poster said when recommending a telescope to a beginner, optical quality and portability are great, but you really stay in astronomy because of those occasional knock-your-socks-off views that a big scope provides.

You've got a lot of room in your budget, and it's good that you're considering a wide field of choices, even if that slows the decision-making process down. My recommendation is to get a decent lighter mount with guidance and a 3" or 4" ED or semi-APO refractor, wait a few months for the thrill to wear off a little and buy some eyepieces, then get a medium to big Dob to look at all the stuff you want a better look at. Don't buy either one with too much weight or you'll spend all of your time with the other.

I'm suggesting semi-APO to start with if you're not doing serious photography. It's tough to scale back if you've got the budget for the good stuff. Go to star parties, look through scopes, see what the difference is. You can ignore my advice if the difference means a lot to you. Starting below the top level also gives you room to grow if your interests take a different direction. I built a 12" Dob last year, although I was really thinking about a 15" or 18" scope, and I'm glad I made my choice. It's about as big as I can move around and set up by myself, and it gives me plenty of small projects to add features and accessories.

My wife was sitting on the couch tonight multi-tasking - watching TV and texting to friends and one of her froends complained that a co-worker, making far less money was walking around with "Fashion-brand X" earrings and a "Fashion-brand Y" purse while she didn't own either. I reminded her that you can afford just about anything you really want, you just have to really know what it's going to cost your life.

Tom Faller

--------------------
Tom Faller
80mm StellarVue Nighthawk refractor
127mm Orion Maksutov-Cassegrain
200mm homebuilt Dobsonian with Discovery optics
10x50 Carton Adlerblick Binoculars
12" homebuilt truss Dob with Discovery optics


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mickey
member


Reged: 09/18/09
Posts: 26
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Tom Faller]
      #3430309 - 11/05/09 12:53 AM

I think I've finally settled into the idea of getting an 8" SCT and CGEM mount. That will give me some room in my budget for a nice eyepiece, and keep my options open to use the mount with a Refractor too.

The scope I've been using for the past few years is a Bushnell Voyager 4.5, just like this one:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=908

I like it's portability, but it could definitely use an eyepiece and focuser upgrade. Some kind of finder scope would make it more fun to use as well. I'm considering the idea of purchasing a nice 20mm eyepiece for it, I'm quite certain the Bushnell Voyager would perform much better than the eyepiece that came with the scope. That would give me 20x magnification and I'd have an eyepiece I can use for the new telescope I eventually get... and get more use out of the scope I have now.

I certainly want some WOW! factor in my viewing, but I really dig the idea of keeping it simple and very portable too. I suspect that I will eventually end up with an 80 to 90mm Refractor and an altazimuth mount for casual viewing as well.

Mickey

Edited by Mickey (11/05/09 01:03 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CollinofAlabama
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 1179
Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Mickey]
      #3431784 - 11/05/09 07:28 PM

Mickey,

Wow, you're in for a journey. I started out with a Dynascope 6" reflector back in the mid-70's in 5th grade. But, although the scope was nice, it was HUGE and heavy. I didn't like that part one bit. I learned a lot about equatorial mounts and also a bit about mirror alignment.

From about junior high till 2002, I used a K-Mart 40mm spotting scope on a simple camera tripod. Then I purchased a 60mm 2nd hand Orion. Then the Orion 90mm Mak-Cass (new), then a 130ST, then an Orion ST80, then a 127mm Mak. I've owned the 90mm EQ-2 Orion achromat, the 102mm Orion Mak, the 100mm F/6 AstroView achromat, and a Vixen 130ST. I don't own any of them anymore. Today, I own the AT80ED (used primarily on a Vixen Portamount), an Orion 100mm ED F/9 (with the 100mm F/6's old AstroView mount), and a custom 6" F/6 dob.

In all honesty, the easiest to use and best images given of the lot is the custom 6" F/6 dob. It is, however, the least portable. I didn't build it. It was designed and built by a disciple of Rick Singmaster of the famous StarMaster dobsonian series. It uses an 8" sized tube (oversized for easier cooling), and a recessed mirror to minimize scatter, so it's a bit longer than the 912mm focal length might suggest, but not a lot more so.

From a simple, low sitting chair I bought at WalMart for less than $10, without any adjustment other than moving the chair as I move to different targets in different parts of the sky. I just replaced the old rack and pinion on it with the Orion single-speed Crayford. It's a dream. The whole thing's not a big setup, but does the best job and has a relatively wide field.

Mickey, I cannot recommend an SCT. All of them that I've looked through just don't have the sharpness of a well-collimated dob or a refractor. What scope you get should at least be determined by your own habit of being a tickerer/repairman. If you like doing maintenance work (around the house, garage, etc.), then you might be okay with an SCT.

An SCT's spherical primary is something like F/2.5 until it hits the secondary. Bill Paolini has noted he felt he had to collimate his 6" SCT MORE than his 10" F/4.7 dob, and that's a lot. If this hobby really is about enjoying the skies, and not fiddling with optics, you need to consider carefully which scope you get.

F/6 and longer reflectors, refractors, and Maksutov's deal with less collimation grief. In fact, if manufactured well and treated like the delicate, precious instruments they are, refractors and Maksutovs will probably never need collimating.

One of the joys, for me, of the night sky, is to fish out the object. I personally find go-to pretty anti-climatic. You might like it, but I'd rather get them myself, thank you. Nothing quite like being with the sky, just you and your telescope. Plus, the grief of batteries not working, or some blasted computer losing it's orientation in the sky are minimized. I have a bit of that with the AstroView mount, since I have the Dec-clock, but really, it's very minor. The batteries waver before they go completely dead on this old analog device. Not a problem to operate at all.

And a wide angle AFOV is critical for finding things in the sky. I prefer lower focal ratio scopes, overall, because of this reason. My 100mm F/9 is something of an exception, but I got it used on AstroMart for a steal, and I don't have a spare $G for a new F/7 4-incher. Besides, I use the 100mm ED on my driven mount, so the narrower field is less problematic.

I once ordered an Orion 127mm Mak on the SkyView Pro mount, and I found that mount to be the antithesis of portable. In fact, I found it oppressively heavy. I'm about 5'10" or so, not a tall guy. I'm not a complete wimp, but I honestly don't want to mix weightlifting and astronomy. Astronomy for me is a hobby of enjoyment, and straining over a mount is not fun. On top of that, the Orion SkyView Pro doesn't have the ingenious leveler built into the side of the AstroView for scope balancing for alignment. It holds a much heavier scope than the AstroView, but if portability is what you're about, well, I'd avoid the SkyView Pro (aka, CG-5). Stick with the AstroView/CG-4, or an Alt-Az mount.

Honestly, I would bet your 4.25" spherical mirrored Bushnell will probably hold its own, if not better, an 80mm ED on DSOs. It won't do as well on stars, so open clusters will look better in a good refractor, but dusty, gaseous nebulae and galaxies respond more to aperture, and the 4.25" is pretty good sized in the small-refractor game.

Pay attention to weight. It's another reason I wouldn't own an 8" SCT. Besides the collimation Hades you may find yourself in, they all weigh a TON. I don't care what anyone says, they're nothing like, even my 100mm ED on the AstroView.

An 8" dob and an 80mm ED scope are sure hard to beat for visual. But if you wanted ultra-portable, I'd go with one of the F/7 102mm ED refractors (I like Stellarvue's offerings, FeatherTouch or not -- both focusers are quite good in my opinion), and a 66mm ED scope. The AT102ED would probably be a good exchange for Stellarvue, but either would be a good choice. The AstroView or CG-4 with Orion's Dec-clock would be fine for the 102mm F/7, and a Vixen Portamount with the 66mm would be the ultimate portable setup. This would complement a buddy's 12" dob if you are able to hook up with other astronomy-minded folks.

For eyepieces, the Meade 5000 series SWA or UWA's make for nice entries into widefield viewing.

In parting, dob's are oriented correctly, with the focuser at the top and out. It is just plain easier to look at targets near zenith with them. Refractors are a bit more work in this regard, and the longer the F/ratio, the more work. I also LOVE my AT80ED, with it's superwide field (almost 3 degrees in my Pan 24), light weight and easy portability. It won't show the Orion nebula nearly as well as my 6" dob, but it will frame it better in the sky. Also, not having to wait for optics to equilibriate to start viewing is a huge advantage for refractors. If you consider your time under the heavens precious and too scarce, this is yet another thing to consider. With refractors, you are pretty much ready to go as quickly as you can set it up. Smaller reflectors don't lag too far behind, but SCTs and Maks take a back seat here. They will produce bloated stars and detail-less planets until they equilibriate, and that can take over an hour, depending on the temperatures you observe in.

Good luck,

CDS

--------------------
Coelum Serendum


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Zebra24601
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 11515
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Mickey]
      #3431851 - 11/05/09 08:18 PM

Quote:



The scope I've been using for the past few years is a Bushnell Voyager 4.5, just like this one:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=908

I like it's portability, but it could definitely use an eyepiece and focuser upgrade. Some kind of finder scope would make it more fun to use as well. I'm considering the idea of purchasing a nice 20mm eyepiece for it, I'm quite certain the Bushnell Voyager would perform much better than the eyepiece that came with the scope. That would give me 20x magnification and I'd have an eyepiece I can use for the new telescope I eventually get... and get more use out of the scope I have now.

I certainly want some WOW! factor in my viewing, but I really dig the idea of keeping it simple and very portable too. I suspect that I will eventually end up with an 80 to 90mm Refractor and an altazimuth mount for casual viewing as well.

Mickey




I have an old silver top Celestron plossl (26mm) and it gives a nice sharp view through my little Bushnell (MUCH better than with the supplied eyepieces, which I never use). Images break down with much higher magnification, however.

Nice wide field of view and highly portable. I toss mine on top of a $30 tripod I got from Telescope Warehouse.
This should take you to the page that has 'em.

I also have a Rigel Quikfinder attached to the top, which makes finding objects a breeze.

Wonderful wide field to watch M31 or M45, and enough to pick out the Veil Nebula in a dark sky. Also fun for just scanning the Milky Way.

--------------------
Zebra24601

Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Celestron Firstscope 80EQ
Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount
Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector * Barska 15x70 binoculars * Galileoscope * Really cheap Tasco spotting scope


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BKBrown
member


Reged: 08/23/09
Posts: 53
Loc: Ashburn, VA USA
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Mickey]
      #3431980 - 11/05/09 09:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You wrote: "What I'm interested in achieving with the telescope I get is first and foremost visual observation of planets, star clusters and nebulas. I'd also like have a scope that is capable of astrophotography as well."

My answer: "Get a Sky-Watcher 120ED for $1495. Then get a mount, probably an Orion Sky-View Pro or Sirius. The 120ED will have enough oomph and quality to keep you satisfied for a while. A 100mm refractor is, for most observers, just too small to be their only telescope."

I should add: "Astro-imaging is an expensive and demanding pursuit."

My advice is free and worth every penny.

Ennis




Hey Ennis, I've thrown astrophotography out the window... it's no longer a factor in my choice of scopes. I'm going to keep my hobby simple and visual. I'm going to look into the Sky-Watcher 120ED. Thanks for the advice.
Mickey





I think this is an excellent idea. The first scope I picked up when I got back into astronomy was my Sky Watcher 100ED EQ5-P and I love it! Don't totally disregard the idea of GoTo either. I understand and honor those who enjoy the hunt with manual mounts but the reality of living in light-polluted urban skies makes non-goto observing significantly more difficult. By all means take the time to learn the skies and find your way around, but if you see fit to include goto in your budget you will spend more time observing the things you want to see and less time hunting for them. This can be an enormous morale booster in the early stages of the hobby. With this in mind may I put my .02 cents in the pot? Why don't you take a look at the SW 100ED EQ5-P as an entry level choice, Astronomics currently has it for $1495. I am also one of those satisfied 4 inch refractor owners who believe it could take a good while to exhaust the possibilities of this scope (like never), and even when you want to move up it will make an outstanding portable rig. I can move it in two trips, set it up, polar align and register the Synscan for goto in less than 15 minutes and the system accuracy is astonishing. The optics are also first rate for a doublet APO and I believe you would be quite pleased with them. The Crayford focuser and accessories (8x50 finder, dielectric 2" diagonal, and two middlin' OK eyepieces) are also decent. With the remaining money you could pick up several decent eyepieces (I would personally recommend the Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom, Baader Hyperion 31 and/or 36 mm aspheric widefield, and a TV 24mm Panoptic) and a Barlow or two. The following mix: a BH 8-24 zoom, BH 36mm ASP, TV 24mm Pan, Celestron 2x Ultima Barlow, and a TV 3x Barlow would set you back about $870 and leave you over $400 for any additional tweaks or goodies. Just something to think about. Clear Skies, BB.

--------------------
Skywatcher 100ED-5QP 100mm f/9 APO, Synscan & GPS
C8N f/5 Newt, WO 66SD ZenithStar APO
Atlas EQ-G w/ Synscan & GPS
Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom; 31mm, 36mm ASP
TV 19, 24 Pan; Nag 9T6,13T6
Siebert 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0/3.5 Barlow,
Celestron 2x Ultima Barlow, TV 3x Barlow
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster

Edited by BKBrown (11/05/09 09:52 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Krish Mandal
member


Reged: 09/02/09
Posts: 40
Loc: Forest Hills, NY
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: BKBrown]
      #3432192 - 11/06/09 12:12 AM

Mickey,

I went through the same angst that you're going through right now, just a few months ago. I researched for over 3 months. I only got my scope on Oct 2nd, and was not even able to open the box till Oct 17.

If you see my blog, I have posted about my journey, and it may help you. Also do a search on the Equipment forum for "done my homework" and you'll find the thread that had to do with my search for the right scope. You'll see a lot of good advice there too, and ways to think about your needs, from the posts of all the people who helped me.

I had the same kind of wish as you, good viewing + astrophotography. I thought I'd never get there. I started off wanting an SCT, and went all around the telescope world wishing for an RC, a nice ED, no maybe an APO, no maybe...etc., to land on an SCT again.

I still DO want a refractor. But I think you'll be very happy with a good SCT. The Celestron 9.25 seems to get great reviews.

I personally bought the Meade 8" SCT ACF with UHTC on the LXD75 mount because of free shipping and a free set of eyepieces. I paid $1500 for it, and (it figures) the price has now fallen to about $1300. It's a good scope with good optics and can be used for AP if you wanted. But that price also leaves you room to get a short focal length APO refractor to do planetary and AP. My SCT is much bigger than I anticipated, so be ready for that if you go to an 8" or bigger.

In a couple of months when I have money again, I'll buy a refractor (hopefully APO) and use it side-by-side or piggy backed to my SCT, and I'll have the best of both worlds.

I suggest you try looking into the same combo. Your budget can handle it. The advice here has been great. You probably won't go wrong with any of the scopes people have suggested. The problem is that everyone's suggestion comes from a personal point of view and personal biases, which may not match your own POV, and therefore you are left to actually look into each of their suggestions as the starting point for your own research.

Don't spend forever deciding (paralysis by analysis), but the flip side is, don't buy something just because you "must have it right now." Look for deals. Lots of people have suggested starting with used equipment, and it's not a bad idea, except that I'm such a foo-foo that I wouldn't be happy with a used piece as my "first."

Remember, and this was said by a few folks already, the scope will be the first thing you buy, you will need to save money for the accessories which will quickly build up as soon as you start using your scope and finding that you want to make your experience even better. Save some money for those things, because as soon as a couple of weeks passes and you've been acquainted with your scope, you'll want to spend money on the accessories.

Good luck, and keep posting, and report your progress. I'd like to see what you do in the end.

--------------------
Krish Mandal

EQUIPMENT LIST:
15x70 Celestron Skymaster
Meade LXD75 8-in SCT ACF

Professional photographer and astronomy neophyte

My astronomy journal at http://nightskylog.blogspot.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David Pavlich
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8687
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Krish Mandal]
      #3432522 - 11/06/09 09:12 AM

If you've truly thrown imaging out, then I'd recommend that you cruise the used market and look for a used Orion Atlas goto and a used Celestron C8. You'd have plenty of astrobucks left over for accessories.

However, if you have that little twinge that keeps the imaging bug around, stay in the used market, get the Atlas and look for something like the Skywatcher 120 ED. Good glass and it has some aperture that may keep you from getting aperture fever for at least a couple of weeks. Ain't it fun?!

David

--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,

"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Brian L
super member


Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 119
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #3432608 - 11/06/09 10:32 AM

Quote:


Mickey, I cannot recommend an SCT. All of them that I've looked through just don't have the sharpness of a well-collimated dob or a refractor. What scope you get should at least be determined by your own habit of being a tickerer/repairman. If you like doing maintenance work (around the house, garage, etc.), then you might be okay with an SCT.

An SCT's spherical primary is something like F/2.5 until it hits the secondary. Bill Paolini has noted he felt he had to collimate his 6" SCT MORE than his 10" F/4.7 dob, and that's a lot. If this hobby really is about enjoying the skies, and not fiddling with optics, you need to consider carefully which scope you get.

F/6 and longer reflectors, refractors, and Maksutov's deal with less collimation grief. In fact, if manufactured well and treated like the delicate, precious instruments they are, refractors and Maksutovs will probably never need collimating.





I don't find that my SCT needs collimating all that often, and the addition of Bob's knobs makes it fairly easy to do when it needs to be done. I have a couple of Maks and I like them for certain things- but the viewing experience between a fast APO refractor and either a SCT or Mak-Cass is totally different. If you want sweeping, wide-field views you aren't going to get those with SCT's or Maks. But, the light collecting power of a 8"+ SCT really makes a difference visually, particularly at high power. For visual observation of objects like planetary nebula and globular clusters, there's no doubt that an SCT has the advantage over a refractor.

Weight and portability are an issue. I have my G-11 parked in a corner of my garage on a ScopeBuggy. When I want to observe, I simply pull out the telescope of choice, roll the ScopeBuggy out, plug everything in and I am going inside of 10 min. When I am done, I just roll it all back in. If you have this sort of observing scenario, the size and weight of everything is less important. If you have to pack the car up to go observing, then it is a major concern.

A good compromise might be the Vixen VMC-200L on a Sphinx mount. It's technically a field-maksutov, but it is f/9.8- comparable to most SCT's. No corrector plate, so dewing is not a big problem like the SCT. Optics are excellent and views stunning. The scope and the mount are surprisingly light and very portable. The sphinx mount is very high quality and is good enough to be useful for serious AP. The Starbook interface is really a nice feature. A good friend of mine was looking to get into the hobby, and this was the scope that I eventually ended up recommending. It ended up being a very good choice.

The best scope is one that gets used often.

--------------------
WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
glava2005
member


Reged: 04/12/09
Posts: 89
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: Brian L]
      #3432759 - 11/06/09 11:46 AM

i`d go for SkyWatcher ED120 if i were u... there are some nice reviews of it on this forums

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2489_EVOSTAR-ED120---ED-APO-120-900mm---OTA---1-11-Micro.html

--------------------
Sky-Watcher ED80
TS Astro5 mount


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RonBurgundy
sage


Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Philadelphia
Re: Refractor recommendations for a beginner new [Re: watcher]
      #3432859 - 11/06/09 12:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Ennis, I've thrown astrophotography out the window... it's no longer a factor in my choice of scopes. I'm going to keep my hobby simple and visual. I'm going to look into the Sky-Watcher 120ED. Thanks for the advice.
Mickey





If you're truly giving up on AP, your 2800.00 budget could get you a Celestron CPC 1100! Although the fork & tube assembly is a bit heavy at 65 lbs.,it's still fairly portable considering the wow factor the views would be. The mount is easier to set up than an EQ, and you don't have to chase the eyepiece while viewing. If that's too much scope for you, how about this. For your budget, you can get a Celestron 8SE, light, very portable, and easy to set up, and still get the Sky-Watcher mount and a Stellarvue 70mm ED if you wanted to try your hand at AP. You would still have money left over for a camera and some accessories.

Just giving you another way to approach the decision.
Joe




I agree 100% with Joe. CPC1100 is truly amazing. Don't forget about Meade (I hear groans already)... Their new ACF is worth checking out; the ACF really does make a huge difference. I would strongly consider going to check out these different SCTs. A smaller APO can be a tremendous telescope; I would just check these out before your final decision... Throwing out AP completely changes the playing field!

--------------------
Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
21 registered and 20 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  desertstars, Remy Bosio, Jason B, LLEEGE 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 1551

Jump to

CN Forums Home



Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics