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Howie_in_AZ
member
Reged: 09/03/09
Posts: 12
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I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but the G-11 can get down to +/- 3.5 arcseconds (or better!) of periodic error with a $500 worm add-on from a French company called Ovision.
+/- 3.5 arcseconds is what the higher-end Takahashi, AP1200, AP900, and ParamountME mounts offer.
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blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1427
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Hi Phil,
Must be nice to have the finances to allow you to do this. 
Blueman
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14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
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Phil Cowell
sage
Reged: 05/24/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Southern Tier NY
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Quote:
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but the G-11 can get down to +/- 3.5 arcseconds (or better!) of periodic error with a $500 worm add-on from a French company called Ovision.
+/- 3.5 arcseconds is what the higher-end Takahashi, AP1200, AP900, and ParamountME mounts offer.
And as a purely visual observer over the standard G11 or CGE this buys me?????
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If it'll fit on a sig you don't have enough
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blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1427
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I have the Ovision worm, great add on for sure.
If you want a mount for photography, then some things become more important. If you are a visual only kind of guy, then the Atlas will work just fine and save you a bit of money.
An AP mount would be wasted on just visual, they were made to do photography and this is one of the reasons they cost so much.
My G-11 has less than 4" peak to peak of PE uncorrected and as a photographer, this is very important to me.
Blueman
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14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 598
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Hello Howie,
Quote:
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but the G-11 can get down to +/- 3.5 arcseconds (or better!) of periodic error with a $500 worm add-on from a French company called Ovision.
+/- 3.5 arcseconds is what the higher-end Takahashi, AP1200, AP900, and ParamountME mounts offer.
To be fair, whilst PE reduction is what the Ovision upgrade is supposed to deliver, actually acheiving those results is neither guaranteed, nor straight-forward.
Further, as a G-11/Gemini owner myself, I do sometimes cringe when I see others making statements that suggest that "all you have to do is get this or that aftermarket G11 upgrade and you'll end up with PME, or Astro-Physics quality performance".
No doubt lots of G11/Gemini owners love and are enthusiastic about their mounts - but some do go overboard.
Regards,
skybsd
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Phil Cowell
sage
Reged: 05/24/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Southern Tier NY
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An Atlas mount is in a different weight capacity. Some folks say the G11, CGE work well visually with a C14. I find that doesn't work for me as it's pushing the mounts capabilities. Add a widefield to the mix on a dual and your asking for frustration. One scope I run is a Meade 14" SCT and neither the G11 or CGE have the capability to handle that scope even visually. So suggesting buy an Atlas and save money might not be an option if you don't know what the mount is being used for. There are more reasons that folks buy mounts other than imaging. Using your logic you could also say if it's not photons hitting the back of your eye you might as well just bookmark the Hubble Heritage site and save money.
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If it'll fit on a sig you don't have enough
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 598
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Hello Phil,
Quote:
Some folks say the G11, CGE work well visually with a C14. I find that doesn't work for me as it's pushing the mounts capabilities.
Actually, I am someone with a C-14 sitting on a G11/Gemini. As a visual-only observer, to me, its actually fine. 
Also, there are folks that even image with this set up too, for that matter.
Regards,
skybsd
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 7964
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but the G-11 can get down to +/- 3.5 arcseconds (or better!) of periodic error with a $500 worm add-on from a French company called Ovision.
+/- 3.5 arcseconds is what the higher-end Takahashi, AP1200, AP900, and ParamountME mounts offer.
And as a purely visual observer over the standard G11 or CGE this buys me?????
To bring the point full circle it buys exactly as much as go-to does for someone who prefers to star hop. Folks get enjoyment out of this hobby in an amazing number of ways. None of them deserve to be discounted. Let's not take the conversation further down that road if we can help it.
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mish
member
Reged: 02/10/09
Posts: 72
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Quote:
To bring the point full circle it buys exactly as much as go-to does for someone who prefers to star hop. Folks get enjoyment out of this hobby in an amazing number of ways. None of them deserve to be discounted. Let's not take the conversation further down that road if we can help it.
Well said. And thanks for saying it.
These mount discusssions on Cloudy Nights have been invaluable assets for me as I worked through decision-making on what to purchase. Unlike Phil, I'd rather take my time deciding on an astronomy investment, and then enjoy those choices for decades. One of my current GEM's is my 40 year old Edmund Scientific mount, and it still works well enough to handle an 8-inch reflector or my 80mm long-focus refractor.
I'd enjoy seeing more in the way of "results" and less in the way of "assertion" on this forum, as that's what really helps us make the best decisions for our own requirements -- that's why I posted a first-light picture from my new G11. The idea that a box-stock affordable mount can handle multi-minute unguided exposures with 40 lbs of telescopes hanging off it and virtually no star trailing was quite a revelation for me, and it may be for others.
And in that vein, here's another quick picture, from my second night of testing this mount. This is from my trusty old C8 with its new Losmandy dovetail, and it's a stack of 20 one-minute JPEG exposures of NGC253, no darks, no flats, no RAW conversions, no noise reduction, and with a nearby full moon to make things truly interesting. I used a quick-and-dirty polar alignment (which I promptly messed up by stepping on one of the tripod legs), and I only took up astrophotography this summer, as I'm a long-time visual observer. So I admit that I don't know what I'm doing. The only processing was a quick average stack and a couple stretches in Nebulosity to take out the serious skyglow, so this data needs a lot more work...
But I'd say the G11 does a fine job of making me look like I know what I'm doing. I'm looking forward to seeing what these images look like properly processed to reduce the vignetting and the sensor noise. And with a good drift alignment, this thing looks like it's going to be great for both visual and photographic uses.
And if Phil wants to donate his used CGE to me, I'll be glad to perform head-to-head tests, because my other astronomy motto is "any mount is lots better than no mount".
I don't think I'll be trading up from this mount for a long, long time. This one is a keeper!
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deSitter
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 2926
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Well if I needed any prodding that does it, it's the G11 for me. Thanks to all who contributed.
-drl
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HaleBopper
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/14/08
Posts: 500
Loc: Great White North
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Congratulations. You'll love it.
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8" SCT Losmandy G11, CG5 mounts
Canon Digital Rebel 400
Kodak Easyshare 2.0 Megapixels
5, 8, 13, 17, 24mm Orion Stratus
Hyperion 31 mm Aspheric
Pentax 10 mm XW
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 598
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Hi,
Glad to know that you were able to make a decision at the end.
Hope it all works out, and that you enjoy the mount.
Regards,
skybsd
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Brian L
super member
Reged: 11/17/08
Posts: 116
Loc: The garden paradise of Pittsbu...
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I have a '53 MG TD and I can second that. I hope Lucas does not make the starter solenoids in Harrier jump-jets.
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WO FLT-110 f/6.5, TEC optics
Losmandy G-11 Gemini
Meade 10" LX200 GPS/UHTC
Questar 3.5" Standard
Vixen VMC-110L
Canon 450D, unmodified
Assortment of TV Panoptic, TV Radian, Vixen LVW, and WO eyepieces
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Phil Cowell
sage
Reged: 05/24/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Southern Tier NY
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Quote:
Unlike Phil, I'd rather take my time deciding on an astronomy investment.
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Your make an assertion that I just pick a mount in seconds and then buy it. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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I'd enjoy seeing more in the way of "results" and less in the way of "assertion" on this forum.
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Like the one you made above 
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And if Phil wants to donate his used CGE to me
I don't donate mounts (mine is the CGE Pro not the CGE) they end up boxed up and sitting in the cellar. Have an Atlas EQ-G, ASGT and a G9 retired down there at the moment. When I get a harmonic drive in the next couple of years the CGE-Pro will join the others. Mind you I did donate a 10" Dob to the local scouts last year. For those nights of wanting to get back to basics theres the EZ Touch with the Argo, star hopping for the 21st Century. 
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If it'll fit on a sig you don't have enough
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mish
member
Reged: 02/10/09
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Unlike Phil, I'd rather take my time deciding on an astronomy investment.
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Your make an assertion that I just pick a mount in seconds and then buy it. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Whoa there, Phil!
With all due respect, you did not quote my comment accurately, and that is NOT what I wrote. Please re-read the sentence that you excerpted only a part of. Here it is, with some emphasis added for the key part you omitted:
Unlike Phil, I'd rather take my time deciding
on an astronomy investment, AND THEN
ENJOY THOSE CHOICES FOR DECADES.
Normally, I would let this kind of thing slide, but you actually edited my statement, by removing its key phrase and adding a period where there had been a comma, so the premature end of that sentence (and the attendant change in its meaning) was your idea, not mine.
What I stated is in fact true: you're the one who wrote "As for mount life expectancy, I view that as about 3 - 5 years". That is what I clearly referred to in my (complete) sentence. The fact that you omitted the part of the sentence that referred to your amazing rate of mount replacement, and then revised the punctuation accordingly to fit your modification, is a simple case of misquoting in my book, and I would appreciate it if you would not misquote me or others...
And especially when such misquoting changes the meaning, as it did here.
Context is everything in communication, and especially in electronic correspondence where we lack other cues as to intent. Please act accordingly.
(and then send me that CGE Pro when you get your next mount!)
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 7964
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Quote:
Well if I needed any prodding that does it, it's the G11 for me. Thanks to all who contributed.
-drl
Be it resolved:
- that the OP says his question has been resolved
- that the posts subsequent to the post have not added much to the OP's intent (sorry)
It's probably time to lock this thread and call it a night.
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"He's dead, Jim - I'll get his wallet, you get his tricorder." - Leonard "Bones" McCoy
Weston CSC:
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