Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22337
Loc: Ohio, USA
|
|
Hi guys,
I'm looking to upgrade, possibly a 16", but at least a 12".
These Zhumell's look pretty tempting. I was looking at Astro-Tech, but I believe the Zhumell is pretty much the same scope, isn't it?
Another option I'm looking at is the Lightbridge. I've read a few instances of having to shim the focuser.
It looks like the counterweight system on the Zhumell is by friction for the Alt. bearings. Does anyone know if I'd need a weight track or anything for the heavier 2" EPs? How about for the Lightbridge?
Overall, I'm inclined to go for the Zhumell. It's got just a few more niceties such as the collimation knobs, black trusses, I like the azimuth encased roller bearings, and overall, I think it's just a nicer looking scope.
Any thoughts or experiences to help me with my decision?
--------------------
Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi. 
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Orion ED80, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm
My CN Gallery * 2007 July - tracking NOAA10963
|
rocco13
Got Milk?
Reged: 07/29/06
Posts: 2642
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
|
|
If you're considering the 12...
I got the Z12 in May, and have no complaints. I had to adjust the altitude bearings (via a slide mechanism) for my heavier EPs, but I only did this when I first got it and have never had to tweak it since. It's not really a counterweight system on the Z's, just an adjustable knob. Same thing for the azimuth motion... a knob that snugs things up nicely.
Can't comment on the 16 as it is a different design, but if you are seriously looking at a 12" scope (and can handle a tube), I would highly recommend the Zhumell, with it's upgrades (focuser, RACI finder, adjustable tension) over the competition.
--------------------
Rocco
Zhumell Z12
Super C8 (1984 vintage)
Celestron 102 f/5
and a cheap pair of binoculars
|
Doug Culbertson
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/06/05
Posts: 1347
|
|
If it were me, I'd split the difference and go with the Orion XX14i. The 8 pole truss, collapsable wooden base along with the digital setting circles make it a better buy, IMO. I would also choose the Orion XX12i for the same reasons, even though the base doesn't collapse.
Of course, if you want a 16" it looks like the LB and Zhumell are the only choices outside the premium brands.
--------------------
Doug
Midway, FL
NS11GPS/Feathertouch/Starizona Virtual View
100ED/Giro II
Some eyepieces and a barlow
1 Thermacell®
Life's too short to drink cheap beer
|
Fraxture
member
Reged: 07/09/09
Posts: 55
Loc: Central Ohio
|
|
I am getting XX12 and of all the individuals I have messaged and emailed that have one, they love it.
I see you are also in Ohio, are you a member of the CAS?
A friend and I will be attending the Nov 14th meeting coming up, we will be looking into becoming members.
I am afraid my scope will not be relinquished to me til my B-Day cause my wife is into birthdays. But I might be able to wear her down. 
--------------------
John B.
You make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give.
Orion XX12i
Edited by Fraxture (11/06/09 01:47 PM)
|
Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22337
Loc: Ohio, USA
|
|
Fraxture, congrats on your new scope! I am a member of CAS, but I live about 1.5 hrs away from Perkins, so am more of a member at large. I enjoy getting the newsletters and supporting the club plus Perkins and gave a presentation there once on astronomical sketching. The CAS has a dark site nearer to where I live and we joined them there before, plus I get together now again with one of the other members there for star parties. They're a good group of people.
Thanks Rocco and Doug. Doug, I have the 10" LX200 I use when Paul's not using it for imaging. The scope I'm getting rid of is a homebuilt 12" truss. I looked into the XX14i and it's a sweet, sturdy looking scope, but I'm not really interested in the push-to computer that goes with it. By the time I pay for shipping on it through Orion, I would be paying more for that 14" as I would for the 16" Zhumell with free shipping at Telescopes.com. If you take away the computer part of it, is the scope itself with lower aperture worth the extra money that could have been put toward a 16"?
--------------------
Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Orion ED80, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm
My CN Gallery * 2007 July - tracking NOAA10963
|
Doug Culbertson
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/06/05
Posts: 1347
|
|
Erika,
That's what I get for not reading your sig line! 
If you have no use for the DSCs on the Intelliscope, and given the fact that aperture rules, then I would definitely go for a 16". Free shipping sure beats Orion's shipping too. I always forget about Orion's rather high shipping rates.
Since I have never seen either the LB or the Zhumell, I'm afraid that I am unable to offer any advice as to which would be the better choice. If I am not mistaken, however, the AT 16" looks exactly like the Z16, and Carol in MT seems mighty happy with hers!
--------------------
Doug
Midway, FL
NS11GPS/Feathertouch/Starizona Virtual View
100ED/Giro II
Some eyepieces and a barlow
1 Thermacell®
Life's too short to drink cheap beer
|
csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40135
Loc: montana
|
|
Quote:
Carol in MT seems mighty happy with hers!
Actually, Erika has viewed thru my 16"! 
Her avatar photo is of the two of us, after some really early morning viewing, with the 16". 
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
|
dave b
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 3528
|
|
here is the review of the AT16:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1817
it is the same as the zhumell
--------------------
dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
|
Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22337
Loc: Ohio, USA
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Carol in MT seems mighty happy with hers!
Actually, Erika has viewed thru my 16"!
Her avatar photo is of the two of us, after some really early morning viewing, with the 16".
Yep! And I was pretty happy with it too!
Dave, thanks for supplying a link to your review. Interesting read. The "alt bearing resistance system" was one of the main things that attracted me to the Astro Tech 16", which then led me to the Zhumell, which I understood to be pretty much the same scope, lower price. I was a little worried about the three struts, but believe I've read enough online in various reviews to know this shouldn't be a problem.
--------------------
Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Orion ED80, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm
My CN Gallery * 2007 July - tracking NOAA10963
|
dave b
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 3528
|
|
you will want to reinforce the 3 struts with tensioned cable. after that review was posted, it was determined that the struts were responsible for the scope not holding collimation.
--------------------
dave bonandrini
30" f/5.2 Dobsonian
President of GCAC
Astromart Moderator
|
sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 939
Loc: Ok.
|
|
I have the LB and alls I can say is I have had no problems, really. I did replace the felt on the Alt with glide tape. No collimation shift, no balance problems EXCEPT below 20 degrees with a 20mm NT2 on a paracorr, did make the top heavy. Oh and I did add a 8X50 RACI finder along with keeping the red dot it came with. Dollars wise the Meade leaves you more money for extras, even if after you add your own extras, you find you need counter weights. The mirror bucket (can't really call it a mirror box) is smaller on the Meade, yes I have seen the Z, and to me, the Meade breaks down into smaller lighter parts. Important if you want to fit these monsters into a car or truck for transport. Yes the Meade LB base is smaller shorter, and lighter than the Z's. But it is still BIG and Heavy.
--------------------
Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
|
tannehill
super member
Reged: 09/26/05
Posts: 112
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
|
|
I have a relatively new Z12 which i bought and had delivered just 2-3 months ago.
I had and reviewed the older model http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1768
The changes they made to the az and alt motions are major, I'd say, in that he motion of both axes is dramatically improved. They use a roller-bearing plate on the az and a smaller similar bearing in the alt which is embedded in an aluminum trunnion assembly; both bearing have adjustable tension features. The adjustable tension features on both work very well. So much better in fact that I don't really use counterweights, b/c I slip the provided finder OFF the scope when I have a Holy Hand Gren-Nagler (32 mm) in the focuser. I use only a Telrad and my Argo on it, so the provided finder is more a counterweight than anything, and pops off fairly easily when I use the heavy EPs. PLUS, you an adjust the trunnions on the scope (not minute-to-minute, but fairly easily) to adapt the balance point to your particular 'modal' usage profile. It's still not an Obsession for sure, but very good and much improved over the prior GSO version. The new Z12 also comes WITH hand-turnable primary collimation bolts and locking bolts. Still need a screwdriver to collimate the secondary, and its no better than before (very jumpy, hard to collimate, even after I swapped out the spring; the way the center bolt seats into the spider is not ideal).
Soon Protostar will have a customized dedicated flocked tube liner to fit this model, which will provide excellent flocking and reduce the thermal impact of the metal tube. I also installed a baffled fan, and have exploited gary meyer's (StellarCat) resources to fit encoders to my Z12 so i can use my Argo. IT's a great total package! Granted, the total cost of my upgrades is a fair % of the total scope cost, but it's all well worth it.
and so while I cannot provide an objective side-by-side comparison with the other brands, the new Z12 is a great solid-tube scope if you can lift it fairly easily. Only thing I'd suggest is upgrading the spider (I'll get a Protostar spider when i can afford another upgrade!) or at least installing Bob's knobs on the secondary for hand-turnability.
Scott in Scottsdale
--------------------
Scott in Scottsdale AZ
|
matthew2000tx
sage
Reged: 12/14/06
Posts: 329
Loc: San Antonio, TX
|
|
All 3 of these scopes are just GSO telescopes. Lightbridge, astro tech, and Zhumell's are all made by GSO. I understand the strutt design of the AT and Z causes issues so I went with the LB and it doesn't have those issues... but if the screws aren't tight on the connector piece (White circle thing) of the truss then you've got issues. Best thing to do is carry a Phillips screwdriver in you bag... just incase.
--------------------
<>< Matthew R.
My Astronomy Blog
*16" Meade Lightbridge
*10.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyessy Dobsonian
*4.5" F/8 Dob. Built by Yours Truly
*3" Celestron First Scope Dob. IYA2009 edition.
*90mm Meade DSX Mak-Cass Go-To
*60mm Meade Refractor on Sears Discoverer EQ Mount
*60mm Tasco Refractor on Tasco EQ Mount
*12x50 Bushnell Binos
*10x50 Celestron Close-Up Binos x2
*20x80 Celestron Binos
*Canon 20D/40d/50d and bunch of L lenses
|
Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22337
Loc: Ohio, USA
|
|
Thanks very much for all the input everyone. I appreciate it.
--------------------
Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Orion ED80, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm
My CN Gallery * 2007 July - tracking NOAA10963
|
lymorkiew45
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 734
Loc: In the dark, and way out there...
|
|
I would go for the Zhumell 12", it just cannot be beat for what it delivers, including portability, massive light gathering capability, quality optics, and best bang for the buck. I feel the extra performance of the 16", doesn't justify the extra cost, so go for the 12"...clear skies... 
|
Rob E
Pierrot
Reged: 05/20/09
Posts: 1121
Loc: Eastern Virginia
|
|
I have the Zhumell 16" and the ALT bearings are easily worth the choice over the Lightbridge as you can change the center of gravity to optimize your scope for your favored EP's or configuration. It beats the countweights needed for the LB hands down. I'm not saying you won't need counterweights. I'm just saying I haven't.
Optically, It's the best mass produced Dobsonian I've ever looked through..period.. Highly recommended!!
The other advantages it has over the LB are:
RACI 8X50 Finder vs. Red Dot Finder
BLACK everywhere near the optical pathway. The LB has white tube rings and white struts which are commonly painted/powdercoated as the first Mod.
The Zhumell include a laser collimator to at least get you started in the right direction.
IMHO, The only disadvantage to the Zhumell is the Truss design of the LB tube is stiffer than the strut design on the Zhumell. As Dave B said, a tensioning cable will strengthen the tube. (I'm considering designing trusses for my scope.)
If I had it to do over again, I'd make the exact same purchase..
And it Fits in a MINI
--------------------
Rob E.
Some of us are actually paid to be funny.
------
Zhumell 16"
Orion 120ST
Orion Starmax 127
Baader Planetarium Hyperions
Zhumell SWA EP's
There's two ways to do anything...right and twice
|
matthew2000tx
sage
Reged: 12/14/06
Posts: 329
Loc: San Antonio, TX
|
|
Quote:
... over the Lightbridge as you can change the center of gravity to optimize your scope for your favored EP's or configuration. It beats the countweights....
Solved with about $10 worth of welding magnets at harbor freight tools.
Quote:
Optically, It's the best mass produced Dobsonian I've ever looked through..period.. Highly recommended!!
Optically the same as the lightbridge, so I agree. They are both GSO mirrors!
Quote:
...RACI 8X50 Finder vs. Red Dot Finder
Solved by purchasing a Meade 8x50 on clearance for $30.
Quote:
BLACK everywhere near the optical pathway. The LB has white tube rings and white struts which are commonly painted/powdercoated as the first Mod.
Good point but about $20 of heat shrink will take care of the trusses and about $50 for power coating the rings and your set. This is only an issue if you are observing in a light polluted area anyway. ($70 fix)
Quote:
If I had it to do over again, I'd make the exact same purchase..
same here
so Basically you'll need about $110 or of mods with the lightbridge. I didn't like the red-dot that came with it so I bought a tel-rad!
That said, with the added costs of the mods the LB needs it is still cheaper than the Z16 at least when I bought my LB it was, they might have came down in price.
I looked hard and long at the Zhumell and decided I would worry about the Texas dust harming the break as it is complicated. Simplicity is bliss!!
--------------------
<>< Matthew R.
My Astronomy Blog
*16" Meade Lightbridge
*10.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyessy Dobsonian
*4.5" F/8 Dob. Built by Yours Truly
*3" Celestron First Scope Dob. IYA2009 edition.
*90mm Meade DSX Mak-Cass Go-To
*60mm Meade Refractor on Sears Discoverer EQ Mount
*60mm Tasco Refractor on Tasco EQ Mount
*12x50 Bushnell Binos
*10x50 Celestron Close-Up Binos x2
*20x80 Celestron Binos
*Canon 20D/40d/50d and bunch of L lenses
|
Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22337
Loc: Ohio, USA
|
|
The Zhumell 16" was $1898 with free shipping on sale at Telescopes.com.
The LB 16" was $1849 plus another est. S&H from Meade or Astronimcs at $75. (We all get a CN discount at Astronomics, but even with the discount, the LB would only come to $1885 before any modifications).
So in this time around the Zhumell was indeed less expensive if you bought it at Meade or needed to purchase anything for mods). At the very least, the price won't come into effect between the two since would have been so close.
The good thing is, no matter which one I would have chosen, I've got a collimator and my own finders, including my Telrad, no need for me to buy anything extra in that regard. I also have a shroud that used to fit a larger truss that I sewed to fit my current truss. All I have to do it let the seam back out again. Thankfully, I didn't cut the material. I have a spare CW track if I need it for the base and have pipe foam covers on hand that work nicely for covering the trusses.
With all that being said, I've purchased the Zhumell 16" and will be selling the homemade 12" truss I currently have or maybe contact the ATMers at my astro club to see if they are interested in it. I'll look into the cable modification if I see it's needed. Looks like I ordered it just in time too. They're out of stock today.
Thanks again for all the input guys (and dolls, Carol  ). I'll let you know how I get on with it once it's up and running in the observatory!
--------------------
Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Orion ED80, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm
My CN Gallery * 2007 July - tracking NOAA10963
|
Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 22337
Loc: Ohio, USA
|
|
BTW, Rob, I've never underestimated a mini, and most certainly won't after seeing that animation!  EXCELLENT!
--------------------
Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Orion ED80, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm
My CN Gallery * 2007 July - tracking NOAA10963
|
csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40135
Loc: montana
|
|
Congratulations Sista!
You will so enjoy the 16"; if you can keep Paul away from it long enough to view thru it!
I'm so excited & happy for you! 
--------------------
Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
|
|
15 registered and 27 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Don W, werewolf6977, Jason B
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 1266
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 