Gianluca67
member
Reged: 11/26/08
Posts: 96
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I am planning to flock my 8" Newton but I am still in doubt between Scopestuff and Protostar materials. I have learned that both are excellent regarding sticking and shedding (but you've got to be careful in applying the materials)but I don't know which is the blackest. I wonder whether you can help me choose.
Gianluca
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csa/montana
Wild Spirit
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40136
Loc: montana
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Why not contact both places & get a small sample from them? This way you can compare "hands on".
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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SteveG
sage
Reged: 09/27/06
Posts: 235
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The Scopestuff is excellent, but I'm guessing you'd be fine either way.
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WO Megrez 110 ED on SP Mount
10" Meade LightBridge
Orion ED 100 on Polaris Mount
6" f8 Edmonds reflector on GP Mount
4.5" F8 Orion EQ Reflector
Astroscan
Meade 226 2.4" f11.7
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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1036
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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Gianluca,
I used ProtoStar to fully flock my 10" Newt and to flock dew/light shades. Good stuff. Very dark with good adhesive backing, IMHO. I've never used the ScopeStuff flocking. I chose the ProtoStar because the opinions of amateurs seemed to go somewhat in its favor, and because I could get it in a large roll instead of sheets. For all I know the material itself could be virtually the same. Try a sample of both.
Mike
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Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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Orthos
member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
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I used the Scopestuff paper. I ordered 2 rolls and it was more than enough to flock the entire tube of my xt10.
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Orion XT10 Dobsonian
32mm, 20mm, 8mm Televue Plossls w/Televue Barlow
Hotech laser collimator and cheshire
Oberwerk 11 X 56 binos
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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1036
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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But how much did you have left over? I wanted enough for a few projects. One big roll from ProtoStar and I was able to flock my 10", flock several dew/light shields, and there's plenty left over to flock a couple more scopes ... if I ever get around to it. Six of one, half dozen of another.
--------------------
Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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Jim Rosenstock
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 3701
Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
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You won't go wrong with either vendor. Both are "top drawer" businesses, pretty much guaranteed to provide satisfaction.
Jim
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Gianluca67
member
Reged: 11/26/08
Posts: 96
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I am waiting for a sample of the Scopestuff material. I will contact Protostar to see whether they are keen to send a sample overseas (I live in Italy). Concerning sticking the only recommendation I got from Protostar is not to attach the material directly to the telescope wall but to stick it to a plastic sheet and then roll it up inside the tube. The telescope is the Vixen R200SS. Any suggestions?
Gianluca
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Orthos
member
Reged: 09/11/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
But how much did you have left over? I wanted enough for a few projects. One big roll from ProtoStar and I was able to flock my 10", flock several dew/light shields, and there's plenty left over to flock a couple more scopes ... if I ever get around to it. Six of one, half dozen of another.
I didn't have much left over. Certainly not enough to flock another scope. Not sure what you paid for the large roll from protostar, but the two rolls I ordered cost $29 each.
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Orion XT10 Dobsonian
32mm, 20mm, 8mm Televue Plossls w/Televue Barlow
Hotech laser collimator and cheshire
Oberwerk 11 X 56 binos
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deSitter
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 2925
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I think the way to go here is the Protostar inner tube that is pre-flocked. The inner tube stands off the scope tube via foam rubber and provides an insulating layer like cork. It's 100 percent reversible in case you sell the scope. No glue is needed, just adhesive backed foam rubber strips which can be had from Ace Hardware.
-drl
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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1036
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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drl,
I thought about getting the Protostar inner tube when I was researching flocking for my 10", but I was not certain if it would fit my tube, so I just went with the adhesive-backed flocking. I am not very concerned about "insulating" my scope. It seems to do very well with just the simple flocking material. I'm not the type to be thinking about "can I resell this scope if I do this or that to it?" If I can improve the scope, I'll do it, regardless of the potential resale value. It's MY scope, not the prospective next owner's, not yet. Besides, I have heard that flocking is considered a value-added improvement, that, if anything, would raise the resale value. I would not worry about it.
Clear Skies,
Mike
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Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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Gianluca67
member
Reged: 11/26/08
Posts: 96
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I've got the sample from Scopestuff and in the next few days I should be getting the one from Protostar for comparison. In the meantime I have compared the scopestuff material with common decorative adhesive black velvet you can find at an hardware store and I have to say that the latter has better blackness. At grazing angles during daytime the black velvet appears to reflect less light than the scopestuff. However the scopestuff material is far better than black paint you can find in a telescope tube and the black velvet has a drawback with shedding.
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Jerry Wilson
newbie
Reged: 10/24/09
Posts: 1
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Gianluca
Have you received your sample from Protostar? What do you think of the comparison?
Jerry
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helpwanted
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 2637
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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i got samples of both and liked the protostar better
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Gianluca67
member
Reged: 11/26/08
Posts: 96
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I have got the sample from Ptotostar as well. I attach a picture for comparison. The quality of the image is not exceptional but can give an idea. At first sight the Protostar material seems smoother and probably less prone to shedding. As regards the blackness at right angles common black velvet seems the best, at grazing angles black velvet perhaps again the best, and perhaps a tiny difference in favour of Scopestuff. Please compare the images.
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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1036
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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To my eye, the pictures show that ScopeStuff flocking is the darkest. I have the ProtoStar flocking and am happy with it. There is a noticeable improvement in contrast and background darkness since I have fully flocked my 10" Newt. I would not use the velvet because of the shedding. Most velvet I have heard about does not have adhesive backing. I would dread having to apply adhesive myself. Why make the job any harder than it needs to be? I have used black felt which has an adhesive backing. I attached a square of it inside my 8" Newt opposite the diagonal. It seemed to improve the view, and is the quickest, simplest way to flock. The felt did shed slightly, but nothing serious.
Mike
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Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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Gianluca67
member
Reged: 11/26/08
Posts: 96
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Hi Mike. I am still waiting for another sample from Duchek to see how it compares. It doesn't have any adhesive backing but this may be an advantage because I've heard the self adhesive material may sag off over time. Certainly applying the glue may make things a bit more complicated but you can choose the best glue for a given tube. I will post a picture of the Duchek material when it arrives.
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Sarkikos
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/18/07
Posts: 1036
Loc: Suburban Maryland
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Gianluca67,
I've never had a problem with the ProtoStar adhesive backing as long as it's applied to smooth metal or smooth plastic. I think the essential point is that the surface be smooth, no texture. The ProtoStar does not stick very well at all to itself or felt or other textured surfaces. That seems obvious and to be expected if you stop and think about it. I have heard that an older version of the ProtoStar flocking had adhesive that wasn't as "adhesive" as the most recent version. Perhaps, also, part of the problem with lack of adhesion was that some amateurs applied the ProtoStar to OTA inner surfaces that had previously been "roughened" or painted with flat black paint that contained crushed walnuts or such. That is just a guess. But, as I said, I've never had a problem AT ALL with the ProtoStar keeping a tight adhesion onto smooth metal or plastic surfaces. I've never had to apply glue to the ProtoStar EXCEPT in some places where it overlaps ProtoStar. Personally, I would avoid any material such as velvet that did not have adhesive backing and that you would need to apply glue to. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) still works for me.
Mike
--------------------
Celestron 10" f5 Newt on 1stBase (DSO)
Zhumell 8" f6 Newt, Bosma 6" f12 MCT (NSO)
6" f5 Newt, 130ST, 4.5" f4.4 Ball w/GLP, ST80 w/Crayford (RFTs)
C4-R (NSO/DS)
90mm f13 MCT (Luna/DS)
SkyMaster 25x100, 15x70
Zhumell 20x80
Barska XWA 10x50, 8x40
OptiView LPR 10x50
Const View 2.3x40
BV-125C
CG5, 2 drv / CG4, 2 drv, wood legs, ScopeStuff saddle / CG3, 1 drv
SV AZ / 501HDV on Bogen 055XB / P+ on Oberwerk
QuikFinder, Telrad
Orion Dynamo Pro 12, Dew-Not
Have GLP and not afraid to use it!
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arowana
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/02/06
Posts: 2900
Loc: Pleasant View,Tennessee
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I used Protostar Flocking material a few years ago on my first 10" Dob. The Protostar material that was sent to me was VERY sticky. So much so, the material gave you only one chance to get it right. If the material touched the tube in a position or spot that you did not want....To bad. When trying to remove the material, the backing would seperate from the felt.
The next scope I flocked, I used Scopestuff's material.
It was perfect. It was not too sticky, so replacement could be done without damaging the felt. But once it was applied and rubbed down, it stayed. I even do a 1/2 inch overlap of the material and it has never seperated.
I have since flocked over 10 scopes with Scopestuff flocking material and none have ever faulted.
And once applied, if you take a sticky lint roller and give the material a good "once over" you wont have to worry about shedding either.
I use this stuff in my CPC 1100 and there is no shed on my mirrors.Even with the newly installed fan, there is still no evidence of shed.
Here is a before and after of the Scopestuff flocking in my CPC 1100 with flash from the camera.
CS's
Joey
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CPC 1100
Earthwin Binoviewer with Dielectric P/F Switch
Matched Pair of 24 Pan's
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arowana
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/02/06
Posts: 2900
Loc: Pleasant View,Tennessee
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After Flocking with the Scopestuff material.
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CPC 1100
Earthwin Binoviewer with Dielectric P/F Switch
Matched Pair of 24 Pan's
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