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Equipment Discussions >> Observatories

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3399243 - 10/19/09 11:39 PM Attachment (37 downloads)

all in place...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3399249 - 10/19/09 11:40 PM Attachment (24 downloads)

the lid with plexiglass window...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3399261 - 10/19/09 11:43 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

plenum box completed -- power supply indicator light on, fans producing great airflow...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3399322 - 10/20/09 12:14 AM

Here's what Paul has to say--

DC Power:

First, I offer the considerations that must be made to provide reliable, clean, DC power. Next I'll cover how we were able to accomplish this.

The two biggest enemies of electronics are heat and humidity and the system needs to be designed to minimize both.

Humidity - Promotes corrosion which can increase resistance at connections ultimately leading to system failure. We address this problem by installing a dehumidifier.

Heat - DC power is much less efficient in transmission than AC power. There are some things we can do to minimize the amount of power we turn into heat.
-- Use heavy wire. For example 10 gauge wire will only efficiently carry 40a at 12V DC for approx. 10 ft. without a large voltage drop.
-- Minimize DC wire run lengths.
-- Use large enough connectors. The key number is the current rating, not voltage.
--Isolate DC wires from AC wires as much as possible -- do not run them in parallel less than 18" apart. The AC will couple across to the DC wires and may cause interference problems.
-- Use multistrand wires. Electrons travel with less resistance along the surface of a conductor. Multistrand wire increase the surface area of the conductor over single-wire conductors.
-- Run DC power supply at 30 - 50% of max. rated output.
-- Maximize cooling airflow around and through the power supply.
-- Crimp or soldered connectors, there's a place for both. Soldered connectors are a personal favorite. Use rosin flux, tin the wires, clean up after soldering with isopropyl alcohol. Use minimal solder -- the old saying "The bigger the glob, the better the job" just isn't true. Crimped connectors use a conductive grease inside each pin before crimping to prevent corrosion.

What We Did:

Requirements: 12V DC, 40a regulated DC power supply.
This seems like a lot of power -- 500W. It's roughly twice what we would need with our current set-up. As time goes on we tend to add more stuff and I wanted to allow for future growth.
It was relatively simple to find a 12V DC, 40a power supply on the internet. However, none of them offered any detailed technical data. In addition, the few reviews we could find were not at all complimentary.
Maya asked for some assistance and rsbfoto/Rainer responded by recommending Micropower Direct. They offer a wide variety of custom DC power supplies. In addition they provided all the technical data up front, including MTBF (mean time between failures), noise limits, etc. I ordered model MPA 500RE-12T.
After a 5 week wait, the power supply arrived. Total cost was $255 US including shipping.

I then constructed a plenum box with an additional fan (12V DC, 3" diameter, 33 CFM, vanaxial type). Both ends are screened to keep out the critters. This will be installed under the wooden floor at the base of the pier.

It was suggested by Scott K that we utilize a RigRunner DC power distribution panel (model 4010s) by West Mountain Radio. In addition to providing 9 fused DC outlets it monitors the input voltge, has both audible and visual warnings, and offers an automatic switching option. This will be mounted on the side of the pier near the top.

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Scott K
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 1409
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3399326 - 10/20/09 12:15 AM

Very nice job on the power supply, Maya! How many amps output is your supply, btw?

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Scott K]
      #3399359 - 10/20/09 12:34 AM

Thanks Scott, we really appreciate your help! The maximum output is 41.67 amps for this model. You can get all the data specs for any of their models at their online site www.micropowerdirect.com
There isn't online ordering, however, you have to call them for price quotes and ordering. We are very pleased with them and this unit only weighs 4 pounds! We didn't ask for the conformal coatings on the board - it's good for moisture resistance (but we've got that under control) but also contributes to more heat build-up.

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Pedestal
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Loc: Smoggy Bottom, Baytown,Texas
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3401012 - 10/20/09 08:38 PM

I'm curious, have you put a meter on it yet to see what the output voltage actually measures?

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---------------------------------
www.smoggybottom.org





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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Pedestal]
      #3401422 - 10/21/09 01:10 AM

Hi Hubert,
Yes, Paul has checked the output voltage with a digital multimeter and it's at 12V exactly right now with a 30% load. We will check it again when we get the rest of the load configured with all other attachments. If the output at the RigRunner drops below 12V it can be adjusted up to 15V if needed at its potentiometer. The power supply seems to be pretty well regulated but he does expect to have to adjust it up a little bit.

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csa/montanaModerator
Wild Spirit
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Reged: 05/14/05
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Loc: montana
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3401918 - 10/21/09 10:52 AM

Crow Haven is moving right along! Taking all these precautions & steps now, will enjoy many, many years of trouble-free, very enjoyable viewing!

Your thread has been a wealth of information for others. Thank you!

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Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35

DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2



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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: csa/montana]
      #3403532 - 10/22/09 01:06 AM Attachment (22 downloads)

Thanks Carol! Here's some pics of installing the RigRunner and MicroPower 12V DC power supply under the floor
and connected inside the pier...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3403535 - 10/22/09 01:08 AM Attachment (14 downloads)

We have power! There is also a 12V DC wall switch with red light to use in turning it on...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3403539 - 10/22/09 01:09 AM Attachment (14 downloads)

Another angle...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3403543 - 10/22/09 01:12 AM Attachment (22 downloads)

Showing one of the potentiometer adjustments for the voltage -- we are at 12V exactly right now, but as we add on more items we can adjust the voltage as needed up to 15V...

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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3403556 - 10/22/09 01:21 AM

Paul wanted to add some safety notes:

Different wire colors used in AC and DC systems --

In a 110V household system, the black wire is hot, the white is ground (or AC neutral, same thing for our purposes), and the bare or green wire is earth ground (goes to a grounding rod driven into the ground).

In a household 220VAC system, the black and red wires are both hot, with a white AC neutral wire, and a green or bare earth ground wire. You should have 220 VAC between the black and red wires. Taking either the black or red wire and the white one will give you 110 VAC.

Note the role of the black wire in both cases -- it's HOT!

When you go to a DC system the black is now the ground and the red is the hot lead. Keep this in mind when using DC systems. The equipment you save may be your own!

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BradleyB
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Reged: 09/01/06
Posts: 267
Loc: Olympia, WA
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3409952 - 10/25/09 01:13 PM

Nice looking observatory!

Keep in mind however that even with DC the NEC electrical code (for residential and commercial buildings) still calls for the grounded conductor, most often the negative, to be white (or grey I think) just like the AC. This has been a long and hard transition in the solar field but one that needs to be made in order to get system to pass inspections. In this case maybe you have not grounded either the negative or positive in which case they are both considered hot. However you are more likely to avoid surge damage if the negative is grounded. You want to know if there is isolation in the DC power supply first and follow their instructions of course.

Brad

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Tom L. made 12.5" f6, "Endurance"
C80ED fixed up
Edmund 60mm f/6
Jason 60mm f/15


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TeleTex
member


Reged: 01/27/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Texas
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: BradleyB]
      #3428916 - 11/04/09 10:09 AM

Any more progress on the build Maya?

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Stan

Meade ETX-60AT-BB (60mm Achromatic Refractor)01-30-08
Meade NG-60 Jupiter (60mm Refractor) 12-25-07
Meade 70AZ-A Land & Sky (70mm Refractor) 02-13-08




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Crow Haven
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Reged: 01/09/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Above the glistening waters of...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de [Re: TeleTex]
      #3433990 - 11/06/09 11:50 PM

No other progress for the moment, Stan, we're having stormy weather here right now and Paul has been working on building the cabinets to install, but his health problems (kidney disease and gout attacks, arthritis in his feet, etc. also) has meant a slow down while he tries to rest and feel better so he can continue on with these projects. Jay is working on other people's projects right now. The observatory has weathered the 50 - 80 mph storm perfectly though -- it's passed the big test, no leaks!
---Maya
P.S. For any who have seen my irises thread in the Gardening forum section, there's still 2 purple blooms hanging in there through this November storm! It's so odd!

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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3441452 - 11/11/09 04:48 AM

We need more pictures please!

Can't wait to see the final product.

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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow




Local Site


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csa/montanaModerator
Wild Spirit
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Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40207
Loc: montana
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #3442038 - 11/11/09 01:00 PM

Quote:

The observatory has weathered the 50 - 80 mph storm perfectly though -- it's passed the big test, no leaks!





And the fact that it's still standing, is a very good test! Glad it weathered the storm, with flying colors!

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Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35

DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2



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New Sky
member


Reged: 11/10/08
Posts: 27
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Crow Haven Observatory - a small nested ROR de new [Re: csa/montana]
      #3442365 - 11/11/09 03:45 PM

Hello! This is a fascinating thread!

I have a question for those of you who have built observatories in locations which get a lot of snow. Since my husband Lyle and I moved to New Zealand from California, we have been able to use a private observatory site on a mountain top several times and now maybe have the opportunity to share it with the owner. He is considering letting us build an observatory on the land too. It is above 6,000' and many miles from anywhere. We haven't had a chance to interrogate him on the best designs but I notice he only has domes and no ROR buildings.

My concern is spindrift, because the site is exposed and sometimes windy and gets quite a lot of very fine powder snow over the winter. Perfect for skiing, but not so great for telescopes I would think! Coming from California we don't have a lot of experience with snow, so your opinions will be valued!

Erika


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