Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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OK Jeff....
thanks for the tip.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 725
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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I'm going to jump in here because I find this particularly frustrating.
I sold the scope to Bill and it was in excellent condition when I shipped it.
With regard to collimation, the rings were perfectly concentric the day I got the scope (new) and they were perfectly concentric the last time I star-tested the scope, which was a week prior to sale. I've never had the dew cap off or checked the collimation screws because the scope was never out of collimation.
The chip issue is a mystery. I've shined a flashlight down that tube many a night to check for dewing and I've never seen anything but baffles and a dark tube.
It would seem very likely that the scope took a pretty good jolt during shipping, which would account for the collimation issue, but how the aluminum chips fit into that is a bit difficult to understand.
All of which is why I over-pack everything I ship. This scope was double boxed, with large bubble wrap around the outside of the metal case, and the scope protected inside it's case with foam rubber and bubble wrap so that it couldn't move at all in transit.
I've bought several scopes in the last year from several different vendors - some packed very well, some not - but I always make sure any optical instrument I ship is packed and protected much tighter than when it came to me. Despite that, once you turn an item over to the company that does the shipping, it's in their hands and anything is possible. Which is also why it was insured for the full value of the sale at my expense.
John
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RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2087
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Quote:
How about finder here?? I like Telrads.
I also like Telrads - and I loved my old TMB 130SS. I'm sorry to hear about your situation and hope it works out well for you. Both of my TMB 130s were perfect in every way. I only let them go to cover some pressing medical problems.
I modified a Synta finder shoe and bolted it to the top of the rings, then used a Scopestuff Telrad dovetail to mount my Telrad. I've attached a picture of it on my original 130.
Cheers ,
Ron
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Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Tak FS-128, C925-CF, C6SE, other stray cats and refractors.
A-P Mach1 GTO
Zeiss orthos to Ethos - and some stuff in between.
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Astronomics
Vendor if you must, AKA The Mighty Kong.
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 3070
Loc: Right Here
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That was my point originally. I know you wouldn't knowingly sell a scope in bad shape and that things work themselves free in shipping. It happens all the time, hence the collimation screws. We had a client, Jerry Wise, with a very long thread on optical issues with a TMB 130 that was all jacked up due to shipping. He still says the scope gave him some of the best photos he had taken of a few particular objects.
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Michael Bieler
I live vicariously through myself.
Father and Husband
Owner
www.astronomics.com
www.astronomytechnologies.com
www.cloudynights.com
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Hi Michael
Never meant to imply otherwise....my heartburn is that the chips were present during assembly. I examined all interior surfaces for spalling... nothing, so its not the result of something after assembly.
My theory is that the chips were trapped between the mating surfaces of the tube and lens cell and worked their way out during shipment from John to me. That shouldn't happen with a product of this high quality; I would expect clean room assembly.
You guys (Astronomics) are aces with me. 
I had the same problem with my Orion 120ST but that's to be expected (sort of) for a scope that cost $300.
Edited by Mr. Bill (11/06/09 10:47 AM)
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Quote:
How about finder here?? I like Telrads.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation and hope it works out well for you. Both of my TMB 130s were perfect in every way. I only let them go to cover some pressing medical problems.
Ron
Hi Ron....actually, no "situation"... minor problem that took a few minutes to straighten out and gave me an excuse to take things apart which I always enjoy.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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stevew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/03/06
Posts: 1143
Loc: Vancouver
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Bill, The 130SS is a beautiful scope. Congratulations.
I really want one. Sorry to hear about the minor issues,
I am sure you will sort them out.
Thanks for posting the pictures.
Steve
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TV Genesis SDF
Meade 127ED
Antares 152
Celestron C5
Celestron C8
Celestron C11
Coulter Odyssey 8
16 Dobsonian
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 725
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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Thanks, Mike. I appreciate the vote of confidence. I was giving vent to my shipping frustrations. I have no doubt that you've seen more than your share also.
I worked in the trucking industry for thirty years and I know first hand what can happen, and despite going overboard to prevent it when I ship an item, I know "stuff" still happens. The reality is that once you put a valuable item in a box, it's no longer a valuable item - it's a box. And it's going to get some rough treatment.
But man, is it aggravating! 
John
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate the vote of confidence. I was giving vent to my shipping frustrations. I have no doubt that you've seen more than your share also.
I worked in the trucking industry for thirty years and I know first hand what can happen, and despite going overboard to prevent it when I ship an item, I know "stuff" still happens. The reality is that once you put a valuable item in a box, it's no longer a valuable item - it's a box. And it's going to get some rough treatment.
But man, is it aggravating!
John
I'll add that John did a perfect job of packing and there was no visible damage to the outer box (metal case+double cardboard outer boxes.)
The problem is the deceleration forces when items are dropped or banged around. As the old joke goes, its not the fall that kills you, its the sudden stop. 
There are inexpensive mechanical accelerometers that can be added to the outside packaging that are tamper proof and will trigger when the G forces exceed a certain level. This makes it easy and unambiguous to determine that there was rough handling involved.(Astronomics take note)
http://www.drypak.com/shippingHandlingIndicators.html
When I worked at Lawrence Livermore Lab we specified those whenever we had high value items shipped and noticed that the amount of damage declined dramatically. People handling those saw the indicators and acted accordingly.
In any event, no big deal as far as I'm concerned except for the chip issue which ironically would never have surfaced (pun intended) if this hadn't happened.
I guess you could say that the offending chip was an inadvertant accelerometer.
Edited by Mr. Bill (11/07/09 03:12 PM)
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Bill Barlow
sage
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 336
Loc: Overland Park KS
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Bill...
OPT also attaches Shockwatch labels to their boxes when the customer requests a PAT from them (Performance And Testing). I have bought two scopes/OTA's from them in the past 9 months (a Meade 10" ACF SCT and C11 OTA's) and have requested this service. Both boxes arrived without the Shockwatch sticker bar turning red to indicate rough handling. So I guess when UPS or FedEx sees these, they probably do treat the cargo better. Enjoy the TMB92.
Bill
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Meade 10" SCT ACF OTA on a UA UniStar Deluxe Super 8 altaz mount on a UA heavy duty surveyor tripod and a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
SV 102ED doublet refractor on a UA UniStar Light mount on a UA light surveyor tripod with a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
Garrett Optical 10x50 and 12x60 binoculars. Also Garrett Optical 30x100 binoculars mounted on a SLIK Pro 700DX AMT tripod.
Several TV Plossls and Naglers, plus a few very good Celestron Ultima wide TFOV eyepieces.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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What's a TMB92??
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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Bill Barlow
sage
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 336
Loc: Overland Park KS
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Oops..sorry, I meant the TMB 130.
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Meade 10" SCT ACF OTA on a UA UniStar Deluxe Super 8 altaz mount on a UA heavy duty surveyor tripod and a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
SV 102ED doublet refractor on a UA UniStar Light mount on a UA light surveyor tripod with a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
Garrett Optical 10x50 and 12x60 binoculars. Also Garrett Optical 30x100 binoculars mounted on a SLIK Pro 700DX AMT tripod.
Several TV Plossls and Naglers, plus a few very good Celestron Ultima wide TFOV eyepieces.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Done with mods....
Added handle to make carrying a lot more secure.
--------------------
10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 37207
Loc: Frederick, MD
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That looks pretty darn cool!
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   SLAP Observer (TMB130SS, SV102V, SV80ED)
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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SteveG
sage
Reged: 09/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm having a hard time with that Telrad stuck on the TMB dewshield! I love my Telrad but man, there must be some law you're breaking there... ;-)
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WO Megrez 110 ED on SP Mount
10" Meade LightBridge
Orion ED 100 on Polaris Mount
6" f8 Edmonds reflector on GP Mount
4.5" F8 Orion EQ Reflector
Astroscan
Meade 226 2.4" f11.7
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
I'm having a hard time with that Telrad stuck on the TMB dewshield! I love my Telrad but man, there must be some law you're breaking there... ;-)
Wouldn't be the first time....
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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Mike Clemens
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/26/05
Posts: 4271
Loc: Wasilla, Alaska 61N
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I've seen brass chips (swarf?) in a brand new Astro-Physics Traveler. Stuff happens.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm having a hard time with that Telrad stuck on the TMB dewshield! I love my Telrad but man, there must be some law you're breaking there... ;-)
Wouldn't be the first time....
--------------------
10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
|
Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3149
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Finally had a good night....the Milky Way was bright and crisp; seeing fair. Observed with 35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, and 7mm Pentax XL eps.
No noticeable false color, certainly a treat for this long time achromat observer. Contrasty views with pinpoint stars made low and medium power viewing of MW open clusters entertaining. Dark nebulae stood out and various Sharpless2 emission regions were seen; especially with 26mm Nagler which seemed to hit a "sweet spot" in this scope's capabilities (3.7mm exit pupil, 35x and 2.35 degree fov.)
I think the 21 mm Ethos will be a great partner with a 3mm exit pupil, 43x and 2.3 degree fov.
The scope never completely caught up with the temperature change; noticeable undercorrection even after several hours. This apparently is typical of air spaced triplets.
Feathertouch focuser was a delight to use; however, some image shift noticed at high power while using fine focus.
This scope will make a competent companion to my BT100 binoculars and nicely fills in the gap between giant binoculars and my reflectors.
Stay tuned for A-B comparison with Vixen (if its not sold off by then.)
--------------------
10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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