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Mike Harvey
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 695
Loc: Orlando, FL.
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Recently, a nearby observer asked me to hook up my MallinCam to his 10" Meade LX200 and, with the f/3.3 reducer, I was simply stunned by the crispness and detail of the images.
Even after several years of Mallin-camming, I couldn't believe what we were seeing in 10 inches!
The tracking was perfect, even 56 second iterations.
At that setting (and with the MallinCam at full zoom) we were seeing the "tip stars" in two of the columns of M-16!
The H-II regions in M-33 showed brightly and their red emissions contrasted
beautifully with the bluish and yellow main-sequence stars in the spiral arms and nucleus.
M-17 showed so much nebulosity that the traditional "swan" shape was somewhat lost!
This has been a revealation to me and I plan to acquire a 10" or 12" Meade ACF in the near future, as I would much prefer using the Meade reducers than the more expensive, complex (and fragile) Hyperstar system.
While my 28" f/3.6 Starstructure delivers jaw-dropping views of DSO's, for public outreach, it is not the most user-friendly choice.
The 10" or 12" Meades would be much more compact and easy to use while still showing deep sky views that actually look like what people expect...
i.e. the color photos they see online and in astronomy books.
NOTES RE:ACF's
***Because of the small area covered by the MallinCam chip, there is no visible distortion with the reducers. The imagers who have claimed that the f/3/3 reducer will not work with the ACF's must be using larger, wide-field chips!
***One final note: the optics in these new Meade ACF's are superb (I never thought I'd say that about any Meade - especially an SCT)!
The effect of coma correction improves the entire field (something Al Nagler showed us years ago with the ParaCorr).
Even planetary views are (hate to use this cliche'...but) 'REFRACTOR-LIKE"!
This 10" ACF easily outperforms my last SCT - a Takahashi TSC-225!
These scopes will require a dramatic revision of our accepted beliefs regarding SCT performance.
Mike Harvey
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Joseph Gillman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 2779
Loc: Aston, PA
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Welcome to the club!
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SanDiegoPaul
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/22/05
Posts: 1329
Loc: San Diego
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The night I bought my 10" Lx200-R, I went straight to the club's dark sky site 75 miles east of town. I set the new scope up right next to another guy that had a recent CPC1100 and we compared a lot of views. Well, I did anyway .... he didn't look through my scope much.
I was amazed at the difference in clarity - and his scope was not old. Plus, I had just traded in my 8" Meade Lx200 GPS (Thanks OPT) and for the first time, saw the clarity of the FOV all the way to the edge. I definitely saw a huge increase in brightness and sharpness both in stepping up from the 8" GPS series to the 10-R
The ACF line has the same optics as mine. It's a great piece of equipment.
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Meade 10" Lx200-R with Mitty Evolution Wedge
Moonlight SCT Focuser
Stellarvue Raptor 90 Triplet
SBIG ST2000 XM Imager
SBIG ST402ME CCD Guider
Canon Digital Rebel DSLR
Meade DSI-c CCD Guide Cam
Please visit my gallery!
http://www.pbase.com/sandiegopaul/
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WirelessDude
sage
Reged: 01/02/08
Posts: 219
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ, USA
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"I set the new scope up right next to another guy that had a recent CPC1100 and we compared a lot of views. Well, I did anyway .... he didn't look through my scope much."
I guess we all suffer a certain level of denial in some part of our lives... 
I'd like to see how the Celestron HD line measures-up to the R/ACFs. 
Clear skies!
--------------------
SkyShed POD XL
AP1200GTOCP3*
CG5ASGT+GPS/CG5
Gib5+SkyTour/Telepod
12"RCX400+UW/Mitty
12"LX200R OTA
C6XLT OTA
NP127is+1uFocusmaster
Meade80ED+2"MoonliteCF+Cercis
Pronto
TCF-S3/3"Pyxis/PDF
STL-11KM+FW8/AO-L/RGH/e-Finder
Astronomik 50mm LRGB/Ha(6+13nm)/Hb/OIII/SII
ST-8300M/C*
DSI3/2Pro/LPI
Eth6/13+Nag31+CZ8-24 EPs
2"2x/4x PMs/1.25"3x/5x TEs
*=ANY DAY!
Space Photons Observatory
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RonBurgundy
sage
Reged: 06/16/09
Posts: 252
Loc: Philadelphia
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I agree with Joseph... Welcome to the club! I'm head over heels with mine; the views are simply spectacular. So... You're considering a 10" or a 12"? Well, I've looked through both, and they are just as beautiful as the 8", just brighter  . I would say you should get the biggest you can afford...likewise being the biggest you can set up easily. Being that you have the wisdom of logistics to transport that 28" monster to public outreach events, I don't think you'll have much of an issue with the 12". It's really heavy though! Good luck...and I'm glad to finally hear some "not-so-Meade" folks compliment the design. They really kicked it up a notch with this ACF business.
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Kipp Ginsburg
8" LX200-ACF
Orion 120mm F/5.0 Piggybacked Refractor
Meade UWA Set [4.7mm-30mm]
DSI-II
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Bill Barlow
sage
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 336
Loc: Overland Park KS
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I also own the 10" Meade ACF and it is a very good visually performing SCT. However, I just purchased one of the C11's on sale from OPT and it arrived today. So I plan to do a few observing sessions using both scopes to see which is the better performer visually.
I wanted a bit more aperture to tease out a little more detail/brightness from galaxies/nebula/globular star clusters, so decided that I would try the C11. If it doesn't beat out the M10, then I will likely return it to OPT within the 30 day return window and pay a 15% restocking fee. They both weigh nearly the same.
I was also considering upgrading to the Meade 12" ACF OTA, but got scared a little due to its' 36-37 pound bare weight. Quite a jump in weight from either the C11 or M10 OTA's.
I am a visual observer only, so I don't use focal reducers.
Bill
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Meade 10" SCT ACF OTA on a UA UniStar Deluxe Super 8 altaz mount on a UA heavy duty surveyor tripod and a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
SV 102ED doublet refractor on a UA UniStar Light mount on a UA light surveyor tripod with a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
Garrett Optical 10x50 and 12x60 binoculars. Also Garrett Optical 30x100 binoculars mounted on a SLIK Pro 700DX AMT tripod.
Several TV Plossls and Naglers, plus a few very good Celestron Ultima wide TFOV eyepieces.
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SanDiegoPaul
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/22/05
Posts: 1329
Loc: San Diego
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Quote:
"I set the new scope up right next to another guy that had a recent CPC1100 and we compared a lot of views. Well, I did anyway .... he didn't look through my scope much."
I guess we all suffer a certain level of denial in some part of our lives...
I'd like to see how the Celestron HD line measures-up to the R/ACFs.
Clear skies!
Me too! I am dying to see one of these new Celestrons. There are hundreds of scopes in my club but nobody has one yet 
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Meade 10" Lx200-R with Mitty Evolution Wedge
Moonlight SCT Focuser
Stellarvue Raptor 90 Triplet
SBIG ST2000 XM Imager
SBIG ST402ME CCD Guider
Canon Digital Rebel DSLR
Meade DSI-c CCD Guide Cam
Please visit my gallery!
http://www.pbase.com/sandiegopaul/
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SanDiegoPaul
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/22/05
Posts: 1329
Loc: San Diego
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Quote:
I also own the 10" Meade ACF and it is a very good visually performing SCT. However, I just purchased one of the C11's on sale from OPT and it arrived today. So I plan to do a few observing sessions using both scopes to see which is the better performer visually.
I wanted a bit more aperture to tease out a little more detail/brightness from galaxies/nebula/globular star clusters, so decided that I would try the C11. If it doesn't beat out the M10, then I will likely return it to OPT within the 30 day return window and pay a 15% restocking fee. They both weigh nearly the same.
I was also considering upgrading to the Meade 12" ACF OTA, but got scared a little due to its' 36-37 pound bare weight. Quite a jump in weight from either the C11 or M10 OTA's.
Bill
I'm a photographer, but still couldn't justify the 12". When I traded my 8"Lx200GPS in at OPT, I asked for the Meade 12". Salesperson's first question was "Can you lift one?"
I said "SURE!"
So he wheeled one out of the back room and opened the box for me. Yes, I lifted it with no problem. I then put it back in the box. So he says "OK, so now that you have lifted it, can you picture yourself putting it up on the wedge?"
So I double-thought my ideas on getting the 12 and settled for the Lx200-R 10 inch. I can get that on the wedge with no problem.
ON the OTHER hand, if you're strictly visual then you don't need a wedge. Get the largest scope you can comfortably lift onto the tripod.
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Meade 10" Lx200-R with Mitty Evolution Wedge
Moonlight SCT Focuser
Stellarvue Raptor 90 Triplet
SBIG ST2000 XM Imager
SBIG ST402ME CCD Guider
Canon Digital Rebel DSLR
Meade DSI-c CCD Guide Cam
Please visit my gallery!
http://www.pbase.com/sandiegopaul/
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Bill Barlow
sage
Reged: 12/03/07
Posts: 336
Loc: Overland Park KS
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Hi Paul...
Well I got the C11 out of the box this morning and set it next to my M10. It was hard to tell that the C11 was 1" larger in aperture since the M10 has an over-sized primary while the C11 was a few inches longer. But both weighed about the same. I added a 2.5 pound Farpoint Astro 3" mounting rail..so that is why they both weighed nearly 28 pounds. Both are pretty easy for me to lift and mount on my UA UniStar side saddle atlaz mount.
I am a little sorry now that I didn't go for the open box Meade 12" at OPT for a discount.
But will see how the optics in this C11 stack up against the M10 ACF. If I don't like the C11, I will return it to OPT within the 30 day return window minus a 15% restocking fee.
I am just trying to get the largest SCT that I can manage for increasing the brightness/resolution of galaxies, nebula and globular star clusters.
Take care/clear skies.
Bill
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Meade 10" SCT ACF OTA on a UA UniStar Deluxe Super 8 altaz mount on a UA heavy duty surveyor tripod and a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
SV 102ED doublet refractor on a UA UniStar Light mount on a UA light surveyor tripod with a Manny Miles eyepiece tray.
Garrett Optical 10x50 and 12x60 binoculars. Also Garrett Optical 30x100 binoculars mounted on a SLIK Pro 700DX AMT tripod.
Several TV Plossls and Naglers, plus a few very good Celestron Ultima wide TFOV eyepieces.
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Matthew Ota
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: New England
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IMHO, using a video cam and monitor to display objects at an astronomy outreach is no better than just setting up a laptop and displaying astrophotos. Part of the thrill of astronomy outreach is the personal and visual experience of observing through the eyepiece. Using video monitors robs the client of the experience.
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Matthew Ota
Meade LX250GPS 10 inch SCT (Frankenscope)
Orion ED 80
ETX-90 OTA
Coronado Helios 1 H-alpha
TheSky 6 Pro
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 12871
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For what it's worth, I've had neighbors come by while I was using a video cam with my SCT and they were quite excited by it. M13 and M57 in particular are quite dazzling with it.
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12.5 inch Portaball + Osypowski platform
LX10
Oberwerk BT100 45° binocular
Orion binoviewer + ScopeStuff extender (so it focuses at f/4.9)
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Joseph Gillman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 2779
Loc: Aston, PA
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To each his own but I don't think it takes away from the experience at all and plus there's no fingerprints on your stuff! A tiny smudge becomes a cool galaxy in a mallincam (or so i've heard, I haven't had the opportunity yet myself).
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Barry Fernelius
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/28/04
Posts: 643
Loc: Rancho Santa Margarita, Califo...
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Quote:
IMHO, using a video cam and monitor to display objects at an astronomy outreach is no better than just setting up a laptop and displaying astrophotos. Part of the thrill of astronomy outreach is the personal and visual experience of observing through the eyepiece. Using video monitors robs the client of the experience.
I used to own a 12.5" Portaball on an Osypowski platform, and I used to agree with your point of view. In my neighborhood in west Fort Collins, Colorado, nestled in the foothills of the Rockies, I showed lots of people the brighter deep sky objects. I was able to star hop to a couple of hundred deep sky objects, with no need for a chart. Several years ago, under dark skies at the Nebraska Star Party, I shared views of the night sky with many different people, and they were amazed at what they could see through the eyepiece. It was a great experience.
Several years have passed, and now I live in southern California in Orange County, along with 16 million other people from LA and San Diego counties . From my home in Rancho Santa Margarita, you can see the moon, an occasional planet, and a few of the brighter stars. That's it! The sky at night is orange because of the light pollution. The people who have lived in southern California for their entire lives can't identify a single constellation, let alone comprehend the beauty of our own galaxy, the Milky Way.
Right now, I'm looking at purchasing a 10" Meade LX200-ACF, a MallinCam, and a monitor. Why? When I did public outreach in Fort Collins, I might have thirty kids who wanted to look through my telescope. In southern California, it's not unusual to have a couple of hundred people who want to look through the eyepiece. It's just not practical to let each person look through the eyepiece. Even if I could let them look, they couldn't see much of anything anyway.
Without video astronomy, I can't do any kind of public outreach or deep sky observing near my home. I still prefer to do visual observation through an eyepiece, and I look forward to the opportunity to take a scope out under dark skies. Due to my work commitments, that just isn't going to happen more than once or twice a year. A good dark sky site is at least four hours away!
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The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. -Proust
Edited by Barry Fernelius (11/08/09 12:03 AM)
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quantumac
sage
Reged: 12/17/07
Posts: 387
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I guess I'm a bit odd, because while I've used my telescope several times over the last two years, I haven't actually looked through it in all that time. My 10" LX200R is permanently set up in an observatory. When I use it, I uncover the scope, hook up the cables, slap on the CCD and start imaging.
Maybe I should look through it once in a while, just for the romance. 
Oh and speaking of focal reducers, I've been experiencing some color aberration with my setup, and I've recently figured out why. The Meade 0.63 focal reducer works well if the imager is positioned 80 mm to 110 mm away, with 87 mm being the optimal distance. My imager was at 120 mm. Opps!
So I've ordered the Orion Deluxe Off-Axis Guider, which has a thinner profile than the Celestron OAG. Hopefully that will reduce the chromatic aberration.
Edited by quantumac (11/08/09 10:33 AM)
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GaryHeath
super member
Reged: 08/13/09
Posts: 118
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I have a friend that had trouble lifting his Meade 10" onto the wedge, so he would simply lean his tripod (with wedge attached) up on two legs and against the lowered tailgate of his pickup, so the tilt plate was about level with/parallel to, and above/over the tailgate.
Then he would scoot the 10" over and up onto the tilt plate, secure it, and then tilt the whole thing up onto all three legs.
I tried it with my 12" and other than it being more than just a 'bit' un-nerving the first few times as it "went over the top" when tilting it back up, it really is a piece of cake.
While on the subject of lifting SCTs .......
My first 16" LX200 was one of the very first few 16" LX200 classics Meade made, so this was about 17 years ago when I was younger ...... and in much better physical condition.
I had set it up at Fremont Peak (with the help of some other club members) on a Thursday night for a 3 day weekend holiday star-party.
I had my extended-cab truck up there and was 'sorta' sleeping in it during the day.
But by Sunday morning I was pretty tired, and overslept, so when I woke ...... I was all alone up there and found I had to disassemble it myself..
I backed my truck up to it, and managed to bear hug the tube assembly (~135lbs) and get it from the forks to the tailgate of the truck and then into it's box.
The rest was a lot easier to get packed up, and although it all went smoothly, I certainly wouldn't want to try it again .........
Best regards,
Gary
Edited by GaryHeath (11/08/09 02:19 PM)
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WirelessDude
sage
Reged: 01/02/08
Posts: 219
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ, USA
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Believe me! Two totally different animals!!! Lifting my 12" RCX400 onto a Peterson Assistant for alt/az is by far much easier that lifting it onto a wedge for EQ! Like swimming, you use those muscles you hardly ever use! 
By the way, I am this  close to defork my RCX400 for mounting on an AP1200GTO! I just don't want to deal with the PEC anymore (which is worse with an NP127is on its back...) marianonarv at the Yahoo! Groups RCX400 forum has inspired me to do this, but, man, it would be a lot of doing!
Clear skies!
--------------------
SkyShed POD XL
AP1200GTOCP3*
CG5ASGT+GPS/CG5
Gib5+SkyTour/Telepod
12"RCX400+UW/Mitty
12"LX200R OTA
C6XLT OTA
NP127is+1uFocusmaster
Meade80ED+2"MoonliteCF+Cercis
Pronto
TCF-S3/3"Pyxis/PDF
STL-11KM+FW8/AO-L/RGH/e-Finder
Astronomik 50mm LRGB/Ha(6+13nm)/Hb/OIII/SII
ST-8300M/C*
DSI3/2Pro/LPI
Eth6/13+Nag31+CZ8-24 EPs
2"2x/4x PMs/1.25"3x/5x TEs
*=ANY DAY!
Space Photons Observatory
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