skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 601
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Hello Luigi,
Quote:
If it's 30 days, but it takes only two days to resolve, then the item is spending 28 days on a shelf somewhere collecting dust. Who benefits from this, the customer, Celestron? At times (with other manufacturers, not Celestron), I suspected it was a policy adopted to dissuade customers from sending items in for service, encouraging them accept minor problems or issues they otherwise wouldn't, and thereby reducing the amount of warranty work performed. I certainly have nothing to suggest this is the case with Celestron.
You and (others with this view) are failing to understand that it does not matter how long it actually takes a tech to fix a given problem. The fix itself may well take 2 days (or even half an hour), but there is a queue your product goes into on arrival - its that simple.
Its no different to the overwhelming majority of tech support delivery solutions, or in fact most restuarants even. It doesn't matter what you order, you could order an egg salad sandwich, it goes into the kitchen's queue, and gets prepared when its turn arrives off the carousel.
I'm not defending Celestron - in fact its Celestron's OTA and mount RMA policy that made the difference in my decision to go Losmandy - but fair is fair. What the original poster is complaining about is no more than a lot of folks who believe that their problems are more deserving of faster resolution that everyone else's.
Regards,
skybsd
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Billydee
super member
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 186
Loc: Winter Haven, FL
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G-11 & Gemini problems can be taken care of on Yahoo Groups. I bet there are 15 messages per day on the "Losmandy" or "Gemini" Groups that will assist you in any problem that you have. Those guys love helping you and it is all free and help comes in hours not days.
Luck, Bill
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 601
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Hello,
Quote:
skybsd, The 30 day is no secret, I knew that going in. And it's the one thing that makes a lot of people hesitate to deal with Celestron.
Understood - just so we're on the same page - this policy was in fact for me, the deciding factor in my selecting a Losmandy G-11 over the CGE.
Quote:
All I'm suggesting is a flexible policy that might actually foster better customer relations. I'm big on process improvement and their process hasn't changed since it's inception, so we all just roll over and accept it.
Be that as it may - I'm sorry for dragging them into this, but do you also complain about release management to Roland at Astro Physics, Yuri at TEC, or Vic at Stellarvue? No one would doubt the dedication, effort and expertise at each of their enterprises, but they have their waiting lists and lead times that we all live with, and even when these are delayed, we are happy to suck it up, aren't we?
Quote:
Why don't they certify technicians worldwide at some of their Premier Select Dealerships? Let them bench stock some high failure rate parts. It's not rocket science.
Now THAT'S the $64,000 question - however, Celestron don't have "dealerships" as you may understand the concept - they have DISTRIBUTORS in each geography to supply sales to EMEA, Africa and Asia-PAC - who, in turn drive sales via their own respective (regional) networks of resellers and dealers. In this model, the associated overhead, liability and costs fall to the distributor - not Celestron.
Don't get me wrong - believe me, I would love for this to change, but Celestron's policy is really not unique, and is quite common practice across other market spaces.
As for rolling over and accepting it - I DID my bit the day I decided to go Losmandy - your move.
Best of luck with your support issue, by the way 
Regards,
skybsd
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waassaabee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Central California Coast
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Well I guess I been skooled...
skybsd, I play the lottery once a week in hopes that I can afford some of the gear you mention. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to own the best, so we have to settle for what we can afford. It's just a hobby after all.
--------------------
Gary
34N 120W
-My kingdom for blue squares!-
WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod - o.o
My Friend Flickr
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 733
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Quote:
I'll stay with the smaller companies (such as Astronomics/Astro Tech, Televue, Stellarvue, Feathertouch, Losmandy, Kendall, Agena) just because of this kind of thing.
John
I had a mount go to Losmandy that was there six months (Titan). I think Losmandy works on a triage system where certain known issues get taken care of quickly and things that require thinking get taken care of...less quickly.
Anyhow, here's my 2c on this topic: You need a backup mount. I am blessed with several, but I wouldn't want less than two. It may be that the AP900QMD has to go back to AP (it went back twice) but I had the G11 and the Super Polaris and could keep myself happily occupied. Ditto with the Titan's voyage home.
Now we could say: things should not be this way. That's true. However, it's probably not wise to tamper with a company's procedures. It can lead to confusion on their part. It seems at one level reasonable to say well just start a ticket and when you're ready I'll bring it down. But they don't necessarily know how to make that arrangement in a way which keeps someone from spending half a day going through the repair queue trying to find the mount that isn't there. And it may even be that they use a physical queue, moving the repair items up.
It's also possible that some items get sent back to China for repair or replacement. Sending them *back* to China would be easy and cheap because freighters go back to China empty.
Anyhow I'm not surprised that they don't want to work out a special deal for someone who's close by. Put it this way. Los Angeles has about 1/20 U.S. citizens and within a few hours of Celestron you probably have 1/10 or 1/15 U.S. citizens. Think of the thousands of scopes they sell. Now think of 5 to 10% of those owners requesting special treatment....
Although Celestron is not General Motors, it is a large enough company that it doesn't fit the call-up-the-owner model which a lot of us have gotten to know.
A Super Polaris without drives often sells for less than $200 and is a wonderful little replacement mount for a sick ASGT. Some people might actually be converted to the Super Polaris in fact. In any case another strategy is to pick up a used ASGT for $500 and when the "real one" breaks cannabilize the other or use the other while the real one is out for repair.
regards
Greg N
--------------------
"Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
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skybsd
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/01/08
Posts: 601
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Hi Gary,
Its all good, man.
Your line-up isn't anything to sneeze at either 
For what its worth, I'd love to have your comparably easier access to darker sites over there - trade?
Best wishes!
Regards,
skybsd
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Kal
sage
Reged: 07/31/06
Posts: 201
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
If it's 30 days, but it takes only two days to resolve, then the item is spending 28 days on a shelf somewhere collecting dust. Who benefits from this, the customer, Celestron? At times (with other manufacturers, not Celestron), I suspected it was a policy adopted to dissuade customers from sending items in for service, encouraging them accept minor problems or issues they otherwise wouldn't, and thereby reducing the amount of warranty work performed. I certainly have nothing to suggest this is the case with Celestron.
Not mentioning names, but this was certainly the policy of a large (US) computer company with their phone support (at least in the past, and BEFORE it was outsourced to India). Keep the customer in the phone based support system as long as possible trying trivial things, sending out a technician as a last possible resort. I'm sure many people simply gave up before getting their entitled warranty repair work done.
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CG-11 • 130mm f6.3 StarFire EDF Gran Turismo • SV90TBV • ETX90EC • 25x100 BINOCULARS • Toucam 840K hacked to a 900NC • DSI Pro
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waassaabee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Central California Coast
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Greg, I am still kicking myself for getting rid of my CG5 after I had it refurbed (3 months @ C), but the CFO kicks back my requests/justifications for redundant equipment. She still doesn't understand how I can enjoy a hobby that frustrates me the majority of the time..
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Gary
34N 120W
-My kingdom for blue squares!-
WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod - o.o
My Friend Flickr
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 730
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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Quote:
Quote:
7331Peg, I had seriously considered a G11 at the time, but with Gemini it was starting to add up $$... My CG5 had treated me well, and I was familiar with the controller so CGEM made sense.
The Gemini is a German product. If it fries you'd be going through the same process with the electronics. I found the support for the Gemini upgrade I added to a CI-700 to be sadly lacking.
For what it's worth, my G11 is the basic model without the Gemini Goto sytem. The idea was to keep it simple and affordable.
Aber, ich spreche Deutsch! Alles ist gut!
Aufwiedersehen.
Johann
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Stew57
member
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 84
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I can not agree. If there is a que at all it should be because there are defective units already inline awaiting repair/replacement. A mandatory 30 day wait is incredulous. I see no mention of this at any Celestron website.
If there is no one in line he would have to wait 30 days for his equipment to be looked at? A 30 day que because of defects is too much. If it had been common knowledge. of this 30 days+ no matter the defect, I would never have purchased my Celestron. If the wait is some policy of Celestron's it is a bad one that willturn off customers. If it is due to a backlog of defects they need more service techs. Unless of course the defect rate is excessive and the QC needs improvement.
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waassaabee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Central California Coast
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Quote:
For what it's worth, my G11 is the basic model without the Gemini Goto sytem. The idea was to keep it simple and affordable.
Aber, ich spreche Deutsch! Alles ist gut!
Aufwiedersehen.
Johann
I suppose you can still hook that up to a laptop, or at least I'd have to... I'm not as much an astronomer as I am a wannabe photographer that happens to take pictures of things very far away at night. 
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Gary
34N 120W
-My kingdom for blue squares!-
WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod - o.o
My Friend Flickr
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Luigi
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4947
Loc: MA
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>>> but there is a queue your product goes into on arrival - its that simple.<<<
If the queue length doesn't change (say 30 days) that means the rate of arrival of items and rate of fixing them is equal and they're behind by 4 weeks. If they made a one-time effort to clear up that 4 weeks delay, the queue length could be close to zero. Naturally, some small queue is desirable to absorb random variations in the arrival of units for repair so as to even out workload.
IMO, given the variabilities in return rates and productivity of the repair department, the only way the queue could remain fixed at 30 days is if it's artificially enforced.
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17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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ottovonrotton
member
Reged: 01/01/09
Posts: 65
Loc: Where is Port Perry?
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Don't forget warranty depts cost money and don't make any. so the less spent on techs and such the less cut into your profit... new products (with minor bugs)= 30 day delay... but not forever.
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Go Modern, Go Gas, Go Bang!
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sailor70623
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 944
Loc: Ok.
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How long do they have to wait for the replacemnet parts to come from China? That maybe part of the problem too. A week to get it checked out and order needed parts, a week to get the parts, a week to put the parts on, a week to get it back to you, not bad. It takes FreightLiner 10 days to replace a windshield wiper motor.
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Corornado PST
LB 16" & 12"
Z 10"
LX50 8"
8" CPC
ETX127
102&90mm MAKs
80mm Richfield APO
70mm refractor
ETX60
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Stew57
member
Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 84
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A warrant dept does cost money. It is the nature of manufacture. If it is excessive and you have to cut it it says volumes about your quality control. Poor service chases return customers away. If your service policy becomes common knowledge your initial customers will look somewhere else. So do you cut more service with a 60 day wait
If (big IF) this 30 day wait before celestron even looks at warranty work is true, I regret my recent purchase on principal. I certainly would have voted with my $$$ to support a more customer centered manufacturer.
I did have a problem with my purchase and they took care of it in a timely fashion (about a week to replace a dead hand controller).
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waassaabee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Central California Coast
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Regardless of it all I requested an RMA this morning as I got a 'No Response 16' yesterday morning whien finishing up some flat files. This is sounding very similar to the scenario my CG5 went through. That ended up being a Motor Controller board, but it came back like brand new...
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Gary
34N 120W
-My kingdom for blue squares!-
WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod - o.o
My Friend Flickr
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George N
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/19/06
Posts: 673
Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
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Quote:
.....She still doesn't understand how I can enjoy a hobby that frustrates me the majority of the time..
You play golf too????
I would not be surprised to find out that Celestron repairs are not done in California and that the items are forwarded to a lower cost labor market for repair. The shipping would be more than off-set by the savings in labor cost and maintaining an inventory of spare parts. I know that that is certainly true for Meade because the Meade rep told me so over the phone (Meade repairs are done in Mexico). The repair sheet that came back with one item I had them repair had a bunch of hand-written notes in Spanish on it.
Losmandy G-11’s? I know of three non-GoTo G-11’s owned by friends that had their electronics fried (all via operator error) in the last 5 years and all three took about a month to get fixed. They all needed new circuit boards installed.
It’s all about money. If you want better service you need to be prepared to pay more for the product up front.
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George N
Obsession 20
Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass
6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts
MI-250 mount
SBIG STL-1301E CCD
Member, International Dark-Sky Association
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gnowellsct
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/24/09
Posts: 733
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Quote:
Quote:
.....She still doesn't understand how I can enjoy a hobby that frustrates me the majority of the time..
You play golf too????
I would not be surprised to find out that Celestron repairs are not done in California and that the items are forwarded to a lower cost labor market for repair. The shipping would be more than off-set by the savings in labor cost and maintaining an inventory of spare parts. I know that that is certainly true for Meade because the Meade rep told me so over the phone (Meade repairs are done in Mexico). The repair sheet that came back with one item I had them repair had a bunch of hand-written notes in Spanish on it.
Losmandy G-11’s? I know of three non-GoTo G-11’s owned by friends that had their electronics fried (all via operator error) in the last 5 years and all three took about a month to get fixed. They all needed new circuit boards installed.
It’s all about money. If you want better service you need to be prepared to pay more for the product up front.
Well four weeks is a pretty typical turn around at Astro-Physics too. At least for my projects. I wasn't worried because I had a spare mount and EXPECT a new mount to have a break in time.
Whatever the causes may be, 30 days is what you get in the astronomy biz--and slower. My Acer screen got repaired and shipped back after three weeks and they're probably as big as all the astro companies combined, x 10.
Greg N
--------------------
"Aperture will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no aperture."
featuring selected astrojunk:
bunch o' widefield eyepieces
bunch o' narrowfield eyepieces
couple o' Barlows
couple o' scopes
couple o' mounts
couple o' tripods
and a pier 'n' stuff
|
waassaabee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Central California Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
.....She still doesn't understand how I can enjoy a hobby that frustrates me the majority of the time..
You play golf too????
 
No golf for me, yet.
Hopefully I can get some imaging done this weekend, send it off Monday and have it back before the next New Moon.... 
But if not, so what... Having played guitar for 40+ years you'd think I'd know about niche market sales and repairs.
--------------------
Gary
34N 120W
-My kingdom for blue squares!-
WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod - o.o
My Friend Flickr
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Paul G
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 2277
Loc: Freedonia
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Quote:
I would not be surprised to find out that Celestron repairs are not done in California and that the items are forwarded to a lower cost labor market for repair. The shipping would be more than off-set by the savings in labor cost and maintaining an inventory of spare parts. I know that that is certainly true for Meade because the Meade rep told me so over the phone (Meade repairs are done in Mexico). The repair sheet that came back with one item I had them repair had a bunch of hand-written notes in Spanish on it.
Losmandy G-11’s? I know of three non-GoTo G-11’s owned by friends that had their electronics fried (all via operator error) in the last 5 years and all three took about a month to get fixed. They all needed new circuit boards installed.
It’s all about money. If you want better service you need to be prepared to pay more for the product up front.
Exactly. You don't get what you don't pay for. Meade, Celestron, and other astro companies are squeaking by in a horrible economy, they're not going to fund a very robust repair process.
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Gus
Tasco 4.5 Reflector EQ Telescope
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