Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page
   · Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article   

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Equipment

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
nyc_nurse
sage


Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
How do you choice a vendor?
      #3435196 - 11/07/09 07:13 PM

A post in another thread got me thinking about what's the most important aspect when choosing a vendor to buy from. I'll be honest and say price is pretty high on my list but it's not the highest. The highest would be quality of service and the integrity of business. Sounds kind of corny but I think peace of mind that the person/business you're buying from backs up their products in case of defect and just as important is not selling you a "second hand" item that is in LNIB condition as "new". What you say? Does this really happen? Well read the return/exchange policy of many of the pure internet outlets and they explicitly state that they repackage non-defective returns and resell as new.

So what's most important for you?

--------------------
Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com

Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6590
Loc: Frederick Maryland
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3435271 - 11/07/09 07:59 PM

Sam:

To be honest I have two well known and very respected local dealers... (within an hour drive)

Hands On Optics
Company 7

I honestly can not remember when I last purchased a Telescope from anyone but one of these two dealers... I do so knowing that both will take care of me with no hassles what so ever...

For small stuff like eyepieces I have been known to but online BUT most of the time I just drive on down and buy from them... I Hate to pay the sales tax BUT do so because I honestly want both of these dealers to stay in business....

Bob G

--------------------
CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter

39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W

The sky over my head....



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JAT Observatory
Got Cookies?
*****

Reged: 02/20/05
Posts: 6799
Loc: Eastern PA
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: Bob Griffiths]
      #3435295 - 11/07/09 08:24 PM

Price & availability is what first gets me to open the door. Service determines if I ever come back.

--------------------
-Marcus

The problem with free speech is even the stupid have a voice.

http://www.jatobservatory.org


Currently a SV102A, WO 66mm & 10" LX200GPS OTA on a Paramount ME
(these OTAs subject to change without notice)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montanaModerator
Den Mother
*****

Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40281
Loc: montana
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3435335 - 11/07/09 08:52 PM

Even if I wasn't a Moderator, I choose Astronomics. They will try to match a price you find elsewhere, they give you a CN Discount; and above all; they give us Cloudy Nights free to us; while bearing the total cost of the site completely by themselves.

They are a family business, honest, & caring about Astronomy & their customers.

--------------------
Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35

DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hfjacinto
Almost got me
*****

Reged: 01/12/09
Posts: 2095
Loc: Union,NJ
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: csa/montana]
      #3435412 - 11/07/09 09:43 PM

I will use a vendor for the first time if they have the product on hand and if the price is good. Then comes customer service, if the service is good I will continue buying from you. I have used OPT, High Point, Orion, Astronomcs, Skies Unlimited, Telescopes.com and several vendors (such as Astro-zap and Howie Glatter) every one of these provides excellent customer service and all have good prices. I will say that I used Telescopes.com for my first scope for one reason only and that was when I did a Google search they were the first site that came up (they have good search page optimization) and I keep on using them because they have always been great with customer service.

--------------------
C9.25 ASGT 9*50 MM Finder,FT Focuser & 2" Diagonal
Meade LXD 75 6 Inch SNT w 9*50 MM Finder
5,6,9,14.5 MM Zhummel Planetary EPs
13,17,21,24,31,36 MM Baader Hyperion
6.7,8.8 MM Meade UWA & 11 MM Nagler T6
Planetary, OIII and Narrowband Filters
Thousand Oaks Dew Control w Kendrick Heaters


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ebusinesstutor
sage


Reged: 07/01/09
Posts: 465
Loc: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: hfjacinto]
      #3435533 - 11/07/09 10:46 PM

Sadly on Vancouver Island, I don't have a lot of choice for local sources. There is one dealer, Island Eyepiece, about 45 minutes away but they do not have a store so you can't go in and look and compare various scopes, eyepieces and options.

There is another shop in Vancouver, but it costs me $120 in ferry costs to get there and back. Ok to shop there if I am already going over, but not worth the trip just for that as I can purchase more online.

My approach has been to do my research online and when I make a choice, I will price it both online and at Island Eyepiece. If Island Eyepiece is fairly close on the price taking into account currency exchange, customs and shipping that I would have to pay, I source it through them.

If it is not something they carry, then I try to purchase online through one of the reputable online dealers. I carefully check shipping prices amongst dealers as some of them seem to charge more for shipping the same item than others.

I must admit I have a soft spot for individuals and small firms who are providing specialty items. I purchased a used Siebert lens to check the quality (an affordable way to test) and have since purchased a new item from them and will plan some in future.

Island Eyepiece didn't carry the Hyperion Click Zoom so I purchased it via an online dealer.

When I traveled to Seattle one time, I did pick up a telescope there (to save shipping costs) and I did ask them to match the online pricing which they did. So if you see a lower price elsewhere, you can ask your preferred dealer if they will match.

I love Cloudy Nights and certainly will consider using Astronomics in future if it is a product they carry given their excellent support of this forum.

--------------------
Garland Coulson
Orion XT8i Dob & Celestron 80 ED on a Vixen Porta Mount Mini
Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Click Zoom & Siebert Observatory 36mm
Siebert Black Knight Binoviewers
SkyWatcher Observing Chair
Celestron Skymaster 15x70mm binos


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RodgerHouTex
member


Reged: 06/02/09
Posts: 44
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: ebusinesstutor]
      #3435926 - 11/08/09 08:04 AM

I now exclusively use Astronomics. They are pleasent to deal with and everything they send me is new in the box. I had been dealing with a west coast vendor (think three letters followed by corp.) who has sent me items that were clearly used and/or had defects as new. When I returned an obviously used Losmandy G-11 (there were multiple longitudinal scratches on the counterweight shaft and the tube cradle had the black anodizing worn off from mounting OTAs on it) I ended up talking to an obviously very angry owner who said just send it back, which I did. They eventually credited my account for $240 less that the purchase price. I still have no idea why. This is just one instance. There are multiple.

So for me, I want a vendor who will send me an item that is new in the box and functions as advertised, or I can return it for a refund or exchange. Otherwise, I go elsewhere.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JayKSC
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 985
Loc: Florida
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3436066 - 11/08/09 10:16 AM

My two vendors are Astronomics and Anacortes. I confess, I'm impatient and use one or the other depending on who has what I'm looking for in stock. I also don't hesitate to order direct from Orion.

So I'd rank: 1) availability of product, 2) quality of service, and 3) price as my factors, and pretty much in that order. As cheesy as it seems, I like a vendor who I can call-up to inquire about a product and end-up having a short conversation with over the phone. This is one reason I love Tele Vue as a company. In the fast paced modern world it's very rare to find a business that makes you feel like they (the owners/vendors) are glad you are a customer.

- Jay
South Florida

--------------------
Refractor manic.
My Sketches


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Arizona-Ken
sage


Reged: 08/31/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #3436115 - 11/08/09 10:37 AM

A good reputation is the primary factor; I want to know that if there's a problem it will be resolved fairly and promptly. And I will drop a vendor if service is bad. This has recently happened with one of the major vendors.

Next is price. I will try a new vendor on a small item if they have a good price, to see how their service is. But for large ticket items, I'll go with one of the established industry vendors. Price includes any shipping charges.

Next is availability. Having an item I want on backorder for two months while a competitor has it in stock will not make a sale. I do appreciate when vendors list their stock status up front. I recently had an experience where I found out after I placed my order that the item had been backordered for months. I won't be using those guys again.

I'll use Astronomics if I can. Their support of the industry and Cloudy Nights is important to me. The discount helps, and even if the price is a little bit more they will get my order.

Arizona Ken

--------------------
"Considered as a collector of rare and precious things, the amateur astronomer has a great advantage over amateurs in other fields ... the amateur astronomer has access at all times to the original objects of his study; the masterworks of the heavens belong to him as much as to the great observatories of the world. And there is no privilege like that of being allowed to stand in the presence of the original."

--Robert Burnham Jr, Burnham's Celestial Handbook


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
letimotif
No Complaints
*****

Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 2016
Loc: Far Flung Isles of Langerhans
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: Arizona-Ken]
      #3436165 - 11/08/09 11:03 AM

I've used Opt, High Point Scientific, Astronomics and Hands On Optics, although--like Bob--I've limited my new scope purchases to Hands On because I drive to it and take a look at why I'm buying. I'd guess in about $10,000 worth of purchases in the last 2 - 3 years I've had one issue with a change in product accessories that I couldn't get resolved with one vendor. Total cost to me was $0, but I missed out on a item I might have used that I could buy if I wanted for about $20.

Either I'm extraordinarily lucky, or I'd have to say the quality of these vendors is such that you can buy with confidence from all of them.

Recently, I tried and eyepiece purchase from Telescopes.com.
That went quite smoothly, although I never actually talked with anyone there.

In terms of my choice of vendor, price is the first determinant. Then I take a look here on CN and the web to make sure there aren't any complaints that raise red flags.

By and large, I think the vast majority of our on line vendors are helpful and genuinely interested in ensuring each transaction goes smoothly.

--------------------
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nyc_nurse
sage


Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: Arizona-Ken]
      #3436169 - 11/08/09 11:05 AM

Humm, never really seriously considered Astronomics since High Point is only an hour drive away but it's a good point about them eating the cost of hosting CN. This website get's a ton of hits a day and hosting cost can't be cheap (although I'm sure they do get an increase in foot traffic to their storefront via CN). Is the CN discount a stable percentage discount across the board? The link doesn't give any specifics.

--------------------
Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com

Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montanaModerator
Den Mother
*****

Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40281
Loc: montana
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3436187 - 11/08/09 11:21 AM

Sam, don't know if this is the link you were referring to or not; but it explains the CN Discount. For the % of discount on an item; a phone call to them would give you the amount; plus they are great to chat with!

CN Discount

--------------------
Carol


AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35

DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Arizona-Ken
sage


Reged: 08/31/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3436209 - 11/08/09 11:34 AM

Sam:

From my experience, the discount is a stable percentage across the board. Since Astronomics doesn't want to publish the percentage, I suggest you call them to satisfy yourself.

Considering the low markups in the industry, the discount seems to be pretty substantial compared to their profit margin.

For non factory-authorized sales, the CN discount usually doesn't apply on top of the sale; the web site usually makes that clear. You need to read the site to determine the deal for each case.

Try 'em! In your case, supporting High Point, a local dealer, is of course important, but supporting Cloudy Nights is too.

Arizona Ken

--------------------
"Considered as a collector of rare and precious things, the amateur astronomer has a great advantage over amateurs in other fields ... the amateur astronomer has access at all times to the original objects of his study; the masterworks of the heavens belong to him as much as to the great observatories of the world. And there is no privilege like that of being allowed to stand in the presence of the original."

--Robert Burnham Jr, Burnham's Celestial Handbook


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nyc_nurse
sage


Reged: 07/29/09
Posts: 254
Loc: nyc
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: Arizona-Ken]
      #3436266 - 11/08/09 12:10 PM

Not surprised that they don't advertise the discount online. Well, I am in the market for an 8 and 13 Ethos. Have a 15% coupon that I can use with telescopes.com, which does come out to a decent amount of money with those two, but I'll definitely give Astronomics a call to see what they can offer me and the guys at High Point are good about knocking off some dollars off their listed prices. Thanks guys.

--------------------
Sam P.
www.agirlandaguy.blogspot.com

Pentax 7X50
TV-102 APO w/ (Starbeam - on backorder )
Ash Gibraltar w/ SkyTour DSC
NZ3-6, N9T6, N13T6
TV 20 Plossl
Pan 24, 35
Pentax XW10, XW14


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/12/06
Posts: 1137
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3436292 - 11/08/09 12:28 PM

If you need something in a hurry and it's not in stock elsewhere there are two other vendors that have not been mentioned - B&H Photo and Adorama. And I second the remarks on Astronomics!!

--------------------
Johnny

Spicewood, TX

Sherman Oaks, CA



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 4347
Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3436360 - 11/08/09 01:02 PM

It pays to shop around. For small items like eyepieces, particularly premium ones, the odds of there being a problem are slim. For such items I buy purely based on total cost (product + tax + shipping) and availability (in-stock vs. on order).

For larger items like scopes, I think you need to be more compromising on price. I buy lots of stuff from OPT, but the last 4 "fragile" items I purchased from them (including two H-Alpha solar scopes, an H-Alpha filter set and a Mewlon 210, all arrived completely out-of-whack. I used (and paid for) second day air as recommended, and still the items were FUBAR on arrival. It is either brutality on the transport from the maker to OPT, or the UPS/FedEx folks in San Diego are absolute neanderthals, but I will not buy anything large and fragile (like an OTA) from OPT ever again (unless I drove down and tested it, then drove it home). They do have a great return policy, but because I had to return the H-Alpha items second day air on my nickel, it was pretty costly.

I ordered a CGE mount from OPT and it came in perfect condition, but the extra counterweight that I added to the order arrived with a shattered thumbscrew. I am pretty sure that the local area carriers down that way are careless.

I've done lots of business with Astronomics over the years as well, and never had any issues with shipping damage on anything. As an added bonus, I pay no sales tax when ordering from them. The only "neg" I have about Astronomics is that often items I want are not on stock and sometimes the items show as not being in stock, but really are. I've learned to call or e-mail and ask whether something listed as out of stock is really out of stock, and one time in three find that the website isn't up to date on stock status.

I used to like Anacortes, but something has changed recently and the website is a disaster. You used to be able to determine stock status, and easily locate items by category and type. Since the re-vamp, it's hard to find anything and when you find it, you have no indication as to whether it's in stock or not. Until they get their act together and make the new site as well-organized as the old, I'll pass on them unless it's something I know (because of an Astromart ad) they have in stock.

Amazon.com is the tool I use when shopping based on price. It allows me to quickly check the price and availability of the myriad camera and electronics houses that sell astronomy optics without having to visit each site and search for that data.

Regards,

Jim

--------------------
"I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."

- Sir Issac Newton


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kfrank
super member


Reged: 12/20/08
Posts: 164
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: nyc_nurse]
      #3436361 - 11/08/09 01:02 PM

Personally, I would rather do business with someone who sets their prices fairly and reasonably across the board and who eschews the nonsense of discounts and specials.

I don't like vendors who advertise products at full list price and then bray about their "discounts" which simply bring the price down to what the rest of the market is charging. That's the "grocery store" model of marketing - sell it at top dollar so you have lots of room to "discount".

Integrity is also big for me and I'm willing to pay a bit more if I feel that I can trust the company in question to do what it takes to make it right after the sale.

As to "Made in the USA", if ever there was a red herring - this is it. All things being equal, I'd opt for a product made in this country. But, I'm not willing to pay too huge a premium for the label. I'd ask this question - Is there ANY telescope produced today, that has NO components manufactured outside the US? I'd be surprised if the answer is yes. In any case, it's a global economy, this modern world we live in, and our hobby is not immune to the effects of globalization.

If you choose a vendor with a good reputation for integrity who prices products fairly, you can't go wrong. Providing the information that allows one to make informed choices is a valuable service of these forums.

--------------------
Ken

ST80
SV80ED
ETX90 (Deforked)
Orion XT8


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
edwincjones
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5669
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: Kfrank]
      #3439524 - 11/10/09 04:41 AM

First time is a gamble
I wish that I had an astroshop down the street that I could go in, talk to the salesperson, touch the equipment, but that is a dream for me (and most)
As pointed out above, first time is price and availability, return is quality of service

edj

a couple of small outfits I have had good results with are Alpine Astro and Aurora Astro

--------------------

n w arkansas









Edited by edwincjones (11/10/09 04:43 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/19/06
Posts: 673
Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How do you choice a vendor? new [Re: Arizona-Ken]
      #3440328 - 11/10/09 03:12 PM

Quote:

A good reputation is the primary factor; ...
Next is price. ....
Next is availability.....
Arizona Ken



I second your system, but note that I put the most stock in the experiences of my friends in my local astro club. I like to deal with the folks I see several times a year at star parties, etc, or the vendors’ stores I can actually drive to.

….but come to think of it, over the past several years the vendors I use the most are those attending NEAF, since that seems to be where I’ve purchased most of my new astro gear!!

--------------------
George N

Obsession 20
Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass
6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts
MI-250 mount
SBIG STL-1301E CCD
Member, International Dark-Sky Association


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3952
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: How do you choice a vendor? [Re: George N]
      #3440387 - 11/10/09 03:33 PM

Value and reputation.

Value is much much more that the listed price of a product. For me it's also choices, stock, shipping choices, ease of doing business with, "feel" when dealing with their employees, pre sales support, post sales support, value to the astro community (CN), etc. Their reputation determines the value of many of those items.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - Modded 350D, DSI-P, SPC900, Mallincam

Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
11 registered and 8 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  spaceydee, csa/montana 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 738

Jump to

CN Forums Home



Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics