HaleBopper
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/14/08
Posts: 500
Loc: Great White North
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OK, so Michael Bakich in the "Beginning Observing" article on page 47 in the Dec 2009 Astronomy magazine states:
"M1 has a high surface brightness, so a 3-inch telescope (and even some binoculars) will reveal it. The object shines at magnitude 8.0...."
Then David Eicher on page 68 refers to M1 as "relatively difficult to observe beacuse its surface brightness is so low." He reports an 8.4 mag oject spread out over 7' of sky.
Ok, so which one is it? Depending on which article you read you may think M1 is an easy catch or quite a challenge.
M1 has given me fits in the past, and I fully agree with David's description. What are your opinions?
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8" SCT Losmandy G11, CG5 mounts
Canon Digital Rebel 400
Kodak Easyshare 2.0 Megapixels
5, 8, 13, 17, 24mm Orion Stratus
Hyperion 31 mm Aspheric
Pentax 10 mm XW
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Hmm--- M1 has always been easy to me, even when I first started out some years ago, and my first observing experience was in front of my house with my 8-inch dob in semi-light polluted skies. If I travel to dark skies, I can pick it up in my 15x70 binoculars with no problem. An 8-inch in dark skies at low power (49x) and it sticks out to me like a sore thumb as a big blotchy greenish tinged oval shaped smudge. If I take it up to high power about 150x, I can tell theres some mottling going on and gets sort of busy looking. I really believe it depends on the person and equipment being used.
Clear Skies to All.
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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starrancher
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 606
Loc: Northern Arizona
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Quote:
OK, so Michael Bakich in the "Beginning Observing" article on page 47 in the Dec 2009 Astronomy magazine states:
"M1 has a high surface brightness, so a 3-inch telescope (and even some binoculars) will reveal it. The object shines at magnitude 8.0...."
Then David Eicher on page 68 refers to M1 as "relatively difficult to observe beacuse its surface brightness is so low." He reports an 8.4 mag oject spread out over 7' of sky.
Ok, so which one is it? Depending on which article you read you may think M1 is an easy catch or quite a challenge.
M1 has given me fits in the past, and I fully agree with David's description. What are your opinions?
I received my last & final issue of Astronomy Magazine as Novembers edition . I will not renew . This is another example of why along with the severely shrinking size , the over abundance of hypothetical content & the overly exorbitant price of the publication . Sky & Telescope will be delivered now as it is more bang for less buck .
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LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff
Fort Rock , Az .
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RobertPL
member
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Austin, TX
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It's pretty easy in my 16x70 binos from a green site.
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Fujinon 16x70 FMT-SX
Canon 10x30 IS
Orion MegaViews 30x80
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HaleBopper
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/14/08
Posts: 500
Loc: Great White North
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Thanks guys for your input. I know that dark skies are the biggest determining factor when observing. I have no doubt that M1 can be glimpsed in binos. I was just a little perplexed with what looks like a contradiction between the articles. If I were a beginner, I can tell you I would certainly be confused. I still like Astonomy magazine, but I only buy it if there is an article that interests me. The M1 descriptions and Bob Berman's "rainbows don't cast reflections" in the Oct 2009 issue are making me wonder a bit...
For my part, from my yard, I could never see M1 through a 4.5" newt. It was Tasco from 1987 so perhaps the sketchy optics were to blame, and the light pollution. However, when I got my C8 I picked it up as a faint ghostly hue from my yard. There have been times though, where I could not see it from my yard using my C8. I think M1 is a bigger challenge than Michael's article suggests.
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8" SCT Losmandy G11, CG5 mounts
Canon Digital Rebel 400
Kodak Easyshare 2.0 Megapixels
5, 8, 13, 17, 24mm Orion Stratus
Hyperion 31 mm Aspheric
Pentax 10 mm XW
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o1d_dude
o1der than dirt
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: The TV/SV Wolfpack
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I've never been able to pick out M1 from my light polluted backyard but have easily found it at the dark sky site. The same thing goes for M33.
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Kit
'Don’t worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy God’s wondrous universe.' - Thomas M Back
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 725
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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I've found that when the transparency is below average, M1 just disappears completely. Seems to be worse in this regard than M33.
John
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: London UK
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Quote:
I've never been able to pick out M1 from my light polluted backyard but have easily found it at the dark sky site. The same thing goes for M33.
Yep - I agree 
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
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My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
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It's both. It's one of the harder messiers, easier DSO's and the easiest supernova remant.
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scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Kingman, Ks
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At a dark site, M1 is easily seen in a 4" Mak.
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helpwanted
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 2655
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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i found M1 very easy in my light polluted back yard with my 6" refractor at only 44x
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blb
sage
Reged: 11/25/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Piedmont NC
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Quote:
I've never been able to pick out M1 from my light polluted backyard but have easily found it at the dark sky site.
I agree! 
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C-11, C-6, XT10i Dob, ETX125PE, TV102, & AT66
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10494
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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I have no problem seeing M1 through my 8" f/6 Starsplitter Tube Dob from my backyard, which is far from being dark, and have seen it through 10x50 binoculars (I can't recall ever attempting it with my 8x42 Celestrons) from dark sites.
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Scott K
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 1409
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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It's completely invisible from my backyard in Dallas in a 12", at least for me. On the other hand, it's easy in 70mm binoculars at my house in Oklahoma.
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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
Reged: 09/19/08
Posts: 945
Loc: Utah
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I have viewed M1 in my orange zone backyard many times with no problem. Haven't brought the 10 to bear on it yet.
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Jay in Utah
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Location: Lat: 40.514N Long: -112.032W
Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day. But when I follow at my pleasure the serried multitude of the stars in their circular course, my feet no longer touch the earth.
— Ptolemy, c.150 AD
My Blog
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joelimite
sage
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Fayetteville, AR
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I also find M1 an easy target from orange skies with my XT8. However, it's pretty bland and featureless. It simply looks like a hazy gray cloud. A narrowband filter, however, brings out just the faintest hint of detail.
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Orion XT8 Dob w/ Moonlite 2-speed Crayford focuser, Vixen A80MF w/ GSO 2-speed Crayford and Porta Mount
32mm Televue Plossl, 31mm Hyperion Aspheric, 24mm Meade SWA, 17,13,8mm Hyperions, 6,5,4mm TMB Planetary, 5mm Baader Genuine Ortho
Garrett Optical 20x80 UL Binoculars, Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 Binoculars
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Hrundi
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/06/08
Posts: 1237
Loc: Estonia
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I've gotten it, barely, in a 4" refractor in a red zone. It was tough though, and the 90% moon was still up.
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NerfMonkey
sage
Reged: 06/12/08
Posts: 482
Loc: NE Ohio
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I agree about the transparency having a huge effect on M1's visibility. On a very clear night last fall I picked it up easily in 15x70 binoculars from a mag 5 sky; on a less transparent night it was tough in the 12" reflector. And on yet another night when the air was nice and clean it was quite a bright object in the reflector.
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Mike
Zhumell 12", Oberwerk 15x70s
107 Messiers, 247 total DSOs, 6 planets, 1 comet
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blb
sage
Reged: 11/25/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Piedmont NC
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Our club had a public observation tonight at Pilot Mountain in western NC. Although low in the sky (about 20 deg of altitude) I could see M1 with my 4" TV102 refractor. This was from a yellow zone. But I have never observed it from home in a white zone on the light pollution map. Later this winter I will have to try again with my 10" dob.
Clear skies, Buddy
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C-11, C-6, XT10i Dob, ETX125PE, TV102, & AT66
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10494
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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Quote:
At a dark site, M1 is easily seen in a 4" Mak.
I also have no problem bagging M1 with a 4" aperture, a 101mm Tele Vue refractor, from dark sites.
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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