Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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I'm trying to find a straightforward procedure for drift aligning my G11 mount through my camera. Something that is very clear on star selection would be really helpful. Thanks!
P.S. - I can use either my QHY8 (first choice since I'll be imaging through it anyway) or my DSI Pro.
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 881
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
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I just used StarTarg a couple of nights ago. Still manual process, but it guides you through it nicely.
http://www.andysshotglass.com/StarTarg.html
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John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Hi John,
Thanks for the reply. I did find StarTarg when I was searching this weekend. I like the introductory video, but I didn't see anything that showed the cost of the software or a download link.
Since I originally posted, I did find this link: http://www.astrophotoinsight.com/public/ccd-drift-method
I haven't tried it yet, but I like what I see so far because 1)the alignment is performed through your existing imaging camera, 2) there's no software to buy, and 3) there's no confusing lingo regarding the intersection of the celestial equator and the meridian.
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
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pawinemaker
member
Reged: 08/12/09
Posts: 33
Loc: SW Pennsylvania
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I used that same method the last time I was out. It took a little while to get the procedure down, but it looks promising. I'm going to give it another shot tonight. I started with 65s to get close, then moved up to 125s. What I like about the method is that it looks like you can do a direct measurement from the image to see how far off the alignment is. This image is a 125s exposure, and from what I understand, the angle between the two lines is how far off the alignment is, which in this case is 43 arcminutes.
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The surest way to invite bad viewing weather is to order new hardware.
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Thanks for the great visual Roland. I'm looking forward to giving this method a try.
In the past I've always relied upon my polar alignment scope to get me close with reasonably good results. However, this weekend I tried a setup that was a bit more demanding on precise alignment and I found that I need to do a better job. I tried a couple of pieces of dedicated software for this purpose, but I found that I had a hardware/software incompatibility issue with one of them and the other left me with more of an alignment issue than I had started with.
Thanks for mentioning the relationship between the angle and the alignment error. It'll be interesting to see how close my polar alignment scope was actually getting me.
Please let me know how your next session goes using this method. Just out of curiosity, which mount are you using? Thanks!
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
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pawinemaker
member
Reged: 08/12/09
Posts: 33
Loc: SW Pennsylvania
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I am using a JMI NGT 12.5 on a horseshoe equatorial mount. I'm still learning how this equipment behaves. I never made it out last night because of the wind. Anything over 10 mph and the NGT turns into a hazard.
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The surest way to invite bad viewing weather is to order new hardware.
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DaemonGPF
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/22/08
Posts: 4029
Loc: New Mexico
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Try WCS. Great little program that takes the guessing out.
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-Josh
http://cleardarksky.com/c/AlbuqNMkey.html
My AP Gallery
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pawinemaker
member
Reged: 08/12/09
Posts: 33
Loc: SW Pennsylvania
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I looked at WCS, but it looks like it only supports webcams and the Meade DSI. I'm using an Orion Starshoot II mono. It looks like WCS uses the Windows driver for talking to the camera, and does not use the ASCOM interface, although I may have missed something.
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The surest way to invite bad viewing weather is to order new hardware.
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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I tried WCS this weekend with my Meade DSI II Pro and had no luck. The live display shows a series of horizontal bars that I couldn't get to go away. Using the Meade Envisage software I was showing a sharp bright star in the center of the field, but each time I tried WCS I got the bars. I posted a message on the WCS Support Forum, but I haven't received any replies. If anyone has any thoughts on this I'd love to give the program another try.
One advantage that I really appreciate using the method that Roland is using is that it allows me to align using my QHY8 camera rather than starting with the DSI and then swapping cameras to image.
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
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John Carruthers
Skiprat
Reged: 02/02/07
Posts: 2379
Loc: Kent, UK
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Have you tried EQAlign, simple interface and it works for me.
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Jc
ATM 10" F6.1, 1/25th wave spec (max wavefront error +/- 1/12.6 in zone 4 of 6, sodium light )
6" F7 spec
127mm F9.4 Refractor
10 x 50 bin
ETX80 (finder)
Canon 20D
PST
DSI 1
and a curious mind
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pawinemaker
member
Reged: 08/12/09
Posts: 33
Loc: SW Pennsylvania
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That looks like a nice program. I am going to have to check it out, although it doesn't look like they support my current camera. Would be nice to have ASCOM camera support in these various packages.
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The surest way to invite bad viewing weather is to order new hardware.
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AlanT
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 502
Loc: 122º36' W, 47º37' N, WA USA
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Quote:
I tried WCS this weekend with my Meade DSI II Pro and had no luck. The live display shows a series of horizontal bars that I couldn't get to go away.
Steve
I've had this problem before as well. It's not consistent though. Sometimes it works, others not. I have a DSI-I and II so I've just switched cameras and not bothered to figure it out. I was thinking that WCS has worked with either camera, but I might be wrong. I suppose it could be that the DSI-II just won't go. I'd try a different USB cable, and different port, with hub and no hub. I know the DSI-II has some issues, I had to send one back because those horiz bars was all I could get, no matter what software or computer. Then the new one I got as a replacement sometimes comes up with the bars but not often.
One thing to know about WCS with the DSI is that stars are quite dim. Somehow the gain is very low and finding a bright enough star can be a problem.
BUT, if you can get WCS working, it is great. Small, Easy to use, and precise.
al
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al
Meade 80mm APO
Celestron 6" SCT
CGE, GM-8, & CG-5 GT
ST-2000xcm, DSI Pro II, DSI Pro
( www.alberts-astro.com/astro )
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Hi John,
I hadn't seen EQAlign before. I just downloaded the manual and I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Hi Al,
Interesting to see that I'm not the only one who's had this issue. I'm pretty sure that I did try swapping USB cables, but I think that you may be on to something as far as swapping ports. Early on in my imaging session I had a problem connecting to the DSI II camera. After pulling my hair out (what little I have left), I found that swapping ports resolved the problem. I have a feeling that there may be a power issue with the DSI II when running other USB devices connected to ports using the same controller. I did have 6 USB devices running simultaneously  . When I tried WCS and got the horizontal bars I had just tried Envisage and it worked fine, but there may be something about the combination of WCS, the DSI Pro II and an overtaxed USB controller that creates the problem with the bars in the display. I'll have to give it a shot without all the other "stuff" hooked up and also using a powered USB hub.
Steve
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AlanT
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 502
Loc: 122º36' W, 47º37' N, WA USA
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I did some checking ... not much better to do, it's raining pitch forks and hammer handles out here.
My DSI-II got the horiz bars no matter what I did EXCEPT!!! it got an image if I changed the DLLs in the WCS directory back to what "i think" are the original ones that came with the WCS package. I just screen grabbed the three files to get the version numbers that worked for me. This probably messed it up so my DSI-1 won't work, but I can just change back.
So this might help:
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al
Meade 80mm APO
Celestron 6" SCT
CGE, GM-8, & CG-5 GT
ST-2000xcm, DSI Pro II, DSI Pro
( www.alberts-astro.com/astro )
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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Hi Al,
Thanks a million for checking on this.
So if I understand correctly,you swapped the DLLs in the WCS folder for the ones that you've attached and you believe that those will work with the DSI II?
Pitch forks and hammer handles, huh? Wow, I'm glad I'm not walking around at your house. 
Thanks again!
Steve
P.S. - Ahh, I see now. These aren't actually files that you've attached but an image of the icons. I see a folder in my DSI-WCS Folder labeled "Imager Library old DSI". Is that where you got the files that you used to replace the existing ones? Thanks.
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
Edited by Steve Saturn (11/19/09 10:03 PM)
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AlanT
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 502
Loc: 122º36' W, 47º37' N, WA USA
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Quote:
P.S. - Ahh, I see now. These aren't actually files that you've attached but an image of the icons. I see a folder in my DSI-WCS Folder labeled "Imager Library old DSI". Is that where you got the files that you used to replace the existing ones? Thanks.
Steve
Frankly, I don't know. I might have copied them from one of the intermediate installs of Envisage. Look for the version numbers on the files you have in your WCS directories, and see if you can find a match. I tried the new ones in the Meade/Envisage directory, but I get dotNet exception errors. I thought these were actually the ones that come with the v2.02 of WCS, and they don't work with the DSI-I, but it's been so long I don't remember.
Hope you can find them, although I don't know for sure they'll work for you.
Good luck
edit: PM sent
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al
Meade 80mm APO
Celestron 6" SCT
CGE, GM-8, & CG-5 GT
ST-2000xcm, DSI Pro II, DSI Pro
( www.alberts-astro.com/astro )
Edited by AlanT (11/19/09 10:32 PM)
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Steve Saturn
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1255
Loc: San Diego, CA
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My thanks go to Al for all his help here. I now have WCS up and running. His DLL file replacement did the trick. Thanks again Al!
Steve
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Celestron 11" XLT
Hyperstar
TMB 80/480
Losmandy G11/Gemini
QHY8 Camera
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AlanT
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 502
Loc: 122º36' W, 47º37' N, WA USA
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Glad you got it working Steve. Now the hard part... Does it work well enough for you, and is it what you want? WCS works for me, but like I said, because the gain is so low it's tough to find stars to work with. With a little practice you can make it work though.
I'm still looking for a program that works like WCS but supports more cameras. I heard PemPro has something, but i haven't looked into it yet.
Just another thing on my to-do list.
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al
Meade 80mm APO
Celestron 6" SCT
CGE, GM-8, & CG-5 GT
ST-2000xcm, DSI Pro II, DSI Pro
( www.alberts-astro.com/astro )
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