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Sheriff Bart
member
Reged: 05/07/09
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Property attributes
#3480792 - 12/03/09 12:58 AM
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Hi all,
I work in the "East Valley" of Phoenix, and may be looking at a home purchase or long-term rental. I don't like long drives, so realistically I am looking at red/orange areas.
I'd like to limit local light pollution problems, however. With this goal in mind, what kind of things do you suggest looking for, or avoiding?
There are certainly plenty of obvious ones, like trying to avoid streetlamps, big retail areas, ballfields with lights, etc.
Properties on golf courses or natural areas seem like they would be better, but they are more expensive.
Any other ideas?
Thanks,
The Sheriff
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FirstSight
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/05
Loc: Raleigh, NC
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: Sheriff Bart]
#3480974 - 12/03/09 06:23 AM
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Always view any property you are seriously considering not just in daytime (where you tour the inside), but go by the house and the immediate neighborhood on at least a couple of different nights, at least once of which is later on at night (say 11pm). This gives you a much better chance of discovering whether any of the surrounding neighbors are in the habit of leaving problematic "security", garage, porch, or even bright interior window lighting on from dusk-to-dawn.
A night visit can also give you lots of insight into whether the impact of particular potential LP sources which are obvious even by daytime (commercial areas, ballfields, swim clubs, etc) will be milder or more severe than you might anticipate merely from a daytime look. Also, you are more likely to discover problematic sources that are not obvious just from a daytime or aerial map look, because they're somewhat camouflaged by buildings or vegetation. For example, I would have guessed by daytime that a small walking-distance shopping center would have a severe impact at my house three short blocks away, but it's actual impact is surprisingly subdued by the fact that its lighting is efficiently directed, whereas there are some school parking lot lights hidden by vegetation that were horrible until they were replaced by updated fixtures a year or so ago (still not great, but a vast improvement).
Edited by FirstSight (12/03/09 06:37 AM)
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bdjeep
sage
Reged: 01/29/07
Loc: Bolton, MA
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: FirstSight]
#3481206 - 12/03/09 10:14 AM
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I agree on the night visit. That should give you a good idea, but be aware that things can change at any time. It would also be a good idea to chat with a couple of your potential neighbors to get the general "vibe" of the neighborhood. If everyone seems confrontational, then you may have less luck asking a neighbor to shield a light in the future.
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csa/montana
Den Mama
Reged: 05/14/05
Loc: montana
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: bdjeep]
#3481262 - 12/03/09 10:49 AM
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Also be aware of any empty area that could turn into a commercial area.
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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/18/06
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: csa/montana]
#3481316 - 12/03/09 11:14 AM
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Other way is to try GoogleEarth with light pollution levels in www.cleardarksky.com that you able to see what color of the light pollution in the area where you plan to look for.
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SkyscraperJim
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/29/07
Loc: Providence, RI
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: Sheriff Bart]
#3481624 - 12/03/09 02:08 PM
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Google Earth is an extremely useful resource when real estate prospecting.
Pay close attention to what is in the vicinity of the property you are interested in. You can easily see what is in the immediate area, as well as determine if there is a huge commercial or industrial complex (something most likely to have a lot of light) several miles south of your location. Something like this to your north is less of a concern.
You can also look at the configuration of the yard with respect to other buildings and obstructions to determine if there would be enough of a view.
Use the oblique view to see if the terrain will obstruct any direction you may want to have clear. Low eastern and western horizons, for example, are of particular importance to someone wanting to observe the inner planets and small phases of the Moon.
You can also use the light pollution overlays to see what zone you're in, as well as where other bright zones are, which would give a good indication to where skyglow would be worse. For example, if you locate in an orange area with much yellow to the south of you, this is a good spot.
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Sheriff Bart
member
Reged: 05/07/09
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: Illinois]
#3481688 - 12/03/09 02:53 PM
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Hi,
Thanks for all of your comments!
If I buy a place I will be more picky. Houses trade hands, and a considerate neighbor could be replaced with one that's not so understanding. I don't want to be in a situation where one new porch light is a big problem.
Making multiple night visits is certainly a great idea.
-----
Also, a heads up for any potential snowbirds out there. As everyone certainly knows, the real estate market is really in the tank. As a result, there are some amazing rents in the "exurbs" surrounding Phoenix. I recently saw a nearly new 2300sf home listed at $600, month-to-month lease!! That was in the town of Maricopa, which is in a yellow zone. A heck of a deal, but a longer commute than I'm willing to make.
Regards,
The Sheriff
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Sheriff Bart
member
Reged: 05/07/09
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: SkyscraperJim]
#3481899 - 12/03/09 04:51 PM
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Quote:
You can also use the light pollution overlays to see what zone you're in, as well as where other bright zones are, which would give a good indication to where skyglow would be worse. For example, if you locate in an orange area with much yellow to the south of you, this is a good spot.
Hey Jim,
Yes, this scenario you described is what I have in mind. Driving south through Chandler, the suburban development abruptly ends when one reaches the Reservation. I believe the tribe is unlikely to ever allow rampant development on this land, although they are not shy about putting up casinos. At any rate, there are orange areas in Chandler with yellow to the south. There is a bit of a dome from Casa Grande, which is about 25 miles south.
There's also a potential neighborhood in extreme south Phoenix (west part of Ahwatukee) that is at a red/orange boundary; to the south are yellow->green->blue skies.
Google map of area with colored overlays
Thanks,
The Sheriff
Edited by Sheriff Bart (12/03/09 06:27 PM)
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Scott in NC
Mad Hatter
Reged: 03/05/05
Loc: NC
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Re: Property attributes
[Re: Sheriff Bart]
#3482180 - 12/03/09 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Properties on golf courses or natural areas seem like they would be better, but they are more expensive.
I'd be careful about golf course communities, as some of them have a lot of artificial lighting and other nighttime hazards like automatic lawn sprinklers (which don't mix well with astro gear!). Good luck on your house-hunting.
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