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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: actionhac]
      #3484400 - 12/05/09 02:26 AM

Some more notes...
The back of my mirror is ground smooth.
The 3 set screws that laterally hold the mirror are steel with cork pads glued to the tips. Yours looks like nylon.
The original Pancro sticker on mine was about 1/2 as tall as yours and mine was black print on yellow.
The paint on the column looks close to the original color, kind of an off-green instrument gray and I haven't seen a modern paint color like it, but didn't look real hard during my restore either. The legs, RA, DEC housings, rotating rings and backplate of the clock drive were also that color. The rest of the mount was a wrinkled black.

Be careful plugging that clock drive in, if it's the same age as mine, the cord was falling apart and leaking a little electric resulting in a low-voltage eyebrow shock at the eyepiece!


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clintwhitman
Caveman
*****

Reged: 01/01/07

Loc: CALI SoEasyACavemanCanSlewIt
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: actionhac]
      #3484409 - 12/05/09 02:37 AM

Find a date hand scribed by Toms Dad on the mirror!!??? The electrical leak at the eyepiece was standard factory adjusted to act as an image Intensifier, Very effective for deepsky viewing..

Edited by clintwhitman (12/05/09 02:41 AM)


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #3484624 - 12/05/09 09:21 AM

Ooo! Didn't get the retina intensifier effect, fortunately! LOL!

When I had it set up and balanced as well as I could, it didn't seem to be tracking very well. I had just the RKE 28mm on Jupiter, which was only about 15 degrees up when I tried gee-whizzing it, so it's possible it wasn't tracking at all, though it did seem to stay in the eyepiece for a while. View was okay, but with so little magnification it's hard to say much. The mirror was still filthy at that point, and I haven't taken the secondary out yet.

I'm going to have to look at those paint colors again more closely in daylight. I think the pier looks to have been repainted. It's kind of an ugly gold with a greenish cast - almost exactly like my Angel fish tank I had when I was a teenager.

One weird thing: The Dec circle seems huge (6") and there's no pointer. Where would that have been to be useful? It's not even tight enough not to spin on the shaft. They sure are purdy, though.

I have GOT to add a dec slo mo to this thing. Can originals be located, or will I have to make something? I might actually prefer putting a worm gear dec slo mo on it instead of a tangent arm. It's tempting to replace the AC motor in the RA drive (keeping all the original parts, of course) with a pittmann servo system and using my Sidereal Technology controller with it and have an Astrola Goto! ...but more than likely I'll just get the original drive working, use a good old AC drive corrector for it, and do what I can for the Dec in a way that doesn't look to non-stock.

Cause I have to admit, this thing is growing on me. Even in the dark (maybe especially in the dark?) it was kinda purdy out there under the sky... ...I mean, the clouds!

Clint. I can't find any writing on the mirror, but I didn't take it out of the cell yet, since I didnt' want to mess with the collimation for my first peeks. But it's reassuring to hear that Robert's mirror also is ground flat on the back.

I was thinking somewhere around 1970 or maybe a couple years later. When I bought my OC Discoverer from Dick Nelson in 1972, it had that finder on it, like I said. And I remember him saying something like "I couldn't get our regular finder, which was out of stock, but I like this one a lot" He wouldn't tell me where he got it, though. And it seems Cave sometimes used the same supplier.

The end rings are also basically identical to the ones that were on my '72 OC, only those were painted black. Could they have come from the same place, though?

I'm thinkin'... This could be fun to restore.

But guys, are these mounts as wobbly as this one seems to be (at least before I tweak things that might be tweakable)?

-tim.


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3484639 - 12/05/09 09:29 AM

Also.

One of the parts I still have from the old OC Discoverer is the 22 pound counterweight. It ought to be perfect for this scope, and I haven't used it in at least 20 years!

-Tim.


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clintwhitman
Caveman
*****

Reged: 01/01/07

Loc: CALI SoEasyACavemanCanSlewIt
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3484763 - 12/05/09 10:58 AM

Tim as you know for ease of use and just plain fun a push around Cave astrola is hard to beat. Having the 10 F8 I would say for transport the 8" F7 would be optimum as far as size and wieght. Is the pier pipe made of aluminum or steel? The reason I ask is all the mounts I have seen have had steel pipe piers except the 6" CaveCritter I found out in Riverside it has an excruded aluminum tube for the pier.

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clintwhitman
Caveman
*****

Reged: 01/01/07

Loc: CALI SoEasyACavemanCanSlewIt
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3484769 - 12/05/09 11:01 AM Attachment (29 downloads)

Mirror for the 65 cave is ground flat on the back or Sand blasted??

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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #3484776 - 12/05/09 11:05 AM

Aluminum!

I was worried when I bought it, because the seller had to leave right away and couldn't help me load it.

So, I loaded the OTA first, which was pretty easy. Then I went back for the mount. I didn't have any tools with me, so I thought I'd just roll the mount out and pick it up for steps. when I did, though, I almost threw it over my shoulder, it was so much lighter than I'd expected!

-Tim.


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actionhac
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: WA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3484833 - 12/05/09 11:50 AM Attachment (31 downloads)

My mount was very shaky before I removed the end play in the worm gear, it's adjustable.Screw on each side of the U shaped bracket that pushes on the worm gear bearings. Don't get it too tight, just remove play.

Robert


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: actionhac]
      #3484838 - 12/05/09 11:55 AM

Robert.

That looks like a Bristol motor?

-Tim.


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3484841 - 12/05/09 11:56 AM

I've got to go to work today, at least for a few hours, to finish a paper that I can't seem to get done!

I think I'll take the clock cover off and see if the motor has a date on it first, though.

-Tim.


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actionhac
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: WA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3484862 - 12/05/09 12:09 PM

I can't remember. I do know that you want to be careful with it because it's not available with the center screw mount anymore, but you can buy a replacement and mount with a strap.
I wish I could remember if it has a date on it like most of these motors you should check yours.
I'm not going out in my shop for a while to remove my cover it's 23deg at my house and to think just a few months ago it was 104

Robert


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: actionhac]
      #3484950 - 12/05/09 12:57 PM

Well, it's got a Bristol, and I can't find a date anywhere.

I did tweak the end play adjustment a little, and that seems to have helped some with the wobbles. Overall, it's pretty clean and the grease looks to be okay inside the clock cover.

I checked the pier again, too. Turns out it is steel, and the weird color is just the surface rust coming through. Otherwise, it's the same hammertone gray that the RA, Dec, and rot rings are painted.

-Tim.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3484962 - 12/05/09 01:02 PM

If you find a stock declination control/motor, get two of them! I might redesign my homemade one later, if I could get a closeup of a stock one, that would help a lot.

The wobbliness may just be the leg wheels, they seem kinda bouncy. Once the scope is on leveling screws that are locked down, it should be pretty sturdy.

Edited by Datapanic (12/05/09 01:04 PM)


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3485030 - 12/05/09 01:45 PM

Dan:

I think you're right. The wheels seem to have a fair amount of wear, too. This one doesn't have holes drilled for the leveling screws, though.

I've thought about putting a set of casters from Rockler in place of the originals. They roll very smoothly, and are not much bigger than the stock wheels, plus they have brakes on them. But they might require drilling out the holes in the legs, and I'd prefer not to do that. I bet McMaster Carr has some replacements that would look right, but I haven't checked yet.

-Tim.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3485096 - 12/05/09 02:56 PM

I found some replacement casters at Ace that were almost identical except the retainer clip was much thinner. Maybe about 1/16" compared to the original's 1/8" or so. When inserted into the legs, the clips go too far above the hole. They definitely lock in, but it takes a rubber mallet to knock them back out! The new ones also squeak! The metal on the old ones could be buffed up but the rubber wheels are just old. But, after polishing up the RA and DEC shafts, I am taking a break in the buffing department.

The leveling screw holes are 3/8 x 16 and about 7/8" beyond the caster holes. I just use 6" Hex head bolts and a washer/wingnut underneath to tighten them up. Then, the mount is very sturdy. I also have some old plastic bolt end protector things that act as feet. One of the things on my 'want' list are a set of original Cave leveling screws with the matching knobs.

Edited by Datapanic (12/05/09 02:57 PM)


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3485108 - 12/05/09 03:02 PM

Another thing I thought about, when looking inside the clock cover and your pic:

The worm block is pretty lightweight. When I was at Meade, the worm block was specifically designed to add a web opposite the worm gear to stiffen the structure, because the "U" channel used in other designs (like the Cave) flexes like a parallelogram will due to torques from the lever arm and weight of the telescope.

I think a Dec drive could be made similar to the clock drive, but with a slower and reversible motor so one wouldn't need the large spur gear. From the 74 catalog, it looks like the dec drives are built something like this (except for the tangent arm versions, of course). I have a bunch of Boston worm gears without worms in a drawer that I could probably find a suitable gear from, bore out the hub and spokes, and make a clutch system similar to the RA drive without too much trouble. I just don't know what motor to try.

-Tim.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3485585 - 12/05/09 08:25 PM

Quote:

It actually cleaned up rather well, I think! The black spots are holes in the coating. I think this is usable, but I can shine a light through it, so it should probably be recoated at some point.

-Tim.




Yep, you can definitely see the beer bottle much clearer after the mirror was cleaned up!


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3486627 - 12/06/09 01:12 PM

My finder is exactly like the one on the 6" Cave on amart right now, from 1973.

Got to get my Model A ready for the Christmas parade today!

-Tim.


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3486671 - 12/06/09 01:40 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Okay, couldn't stand it!

I took the mirror out of the cell this morning, to make sure there wasn't any writing on the edge (didn't seem to be when I looked between the mirror and cell) and there is!

M749724 55 5/8" fl, Oct 16, 1974.

The Cave Optical lettering is block all caps, not like Clint's mirror above, which has the same script handwriting that my Enterprise Optics 12.5" Cass optics has on it, signed by Ed or Bob Beck.

Too bad Cave didn't like his opticians signing the mirrors!

-Tim.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Just bought me an 8" Cave Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: tim53]
      #3486923 - 12/06/09 04:23 PM

Quote:

...The Cave Optical lettering is block all caps...




Kinda interesting - I have a hand written letter from Ron Ezra that is all caps, the lettering looks the same as on your mirror.

The letter was included when I received the scope - about mounting the guide scope brackets. Explaining that he didn't mount them because he did not have my guide scope and couldn't balance it. So, he included a drill bit and tap for me to do it myself.


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