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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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NeoDinian
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Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois
A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making!
      #3543809 - 01/06/10 04:46 PM

I'm putting together a program for our local club, and am currently looking to my fellow CN'ers for help with this...

Let me start by saying that ALL CREDIT WILL BE GIVEN FOR WORK SUBMITTED!

I'm looking for sample drawings and logfiles for various object's to make a complete program about "Keeping logs and records of observing sessions".

Not any item specifically, but what I would like are sample sketches of various TYPES of items.

- Planets
- Clusters (Open and Globs)
- Nebula
- Galaxies
- Solar (Spots, proms, flares, etc...)
- Lunar (Closeups, widefields, etc...)

And with the images, an accompanying log entry would be nice...

- Scope
- Date/time
- EP used (Magnification)
- Conditions (Seeing, Transparency)
- General Notes


Along with this, some "Tips" for beginners (like me). The sketches can be "Beginner" or even higher level (very artistic as some I've seen here). Perhaps even an old and new of the same objects to show how one can progress and get better as they go.

I'm hoping to put together a program about 30-45 minutes long on a Powerpoint presentation. So as much info as I could get to fill it in would be highly appreciated!

And again - ALL CREDIT WILL BE GIVEN for contributions! I will even send contributors a copy of the presentation.

So, who's willing to help out a fellow astronomer and "Student" sketcher achieve these goals?

Thank you in advance!


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JayKSC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/01/05

Loc: Florida
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3543869 - 01/06/10 05:17 PM

Hi Jeff,

Feel free to use any of my sketches (link in my signature line). I'd be happy to piece together more detailed information about my methods or even a step-by-step mock sketch using one of my real sketches as an end point.

Jay
South Florida


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NeoDinian
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Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: JayKSC]
      #3543900 - 01/06/10 05:40 PM

Cool. Thank you. I'll keep that in mind. Anything that would help.

One aspect that I am lost with is probably the beginner in me... Are you drawing on black paper with white, or black ON white, then just inverting the image once scanned? (Techniques to be included in program as well)...


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JayKSC
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Reged: 01/01/05

Loc: Florida
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3543982 - 01/06/10 06:30 PM

Jeff,

Many people here use black paper and chalk. This seems to be especially popular for lunar sketching. I prefer to use white paper. I've used plain old printer paper for years but have recently switched to a high quality 100% cotton paper - it's far more durable and moisture resistant for field use. The printer paper can become a little soggy and floppy if used in humid conditions.

I invert my sketches on the computer. I also do touch-ups to adjust for an object's brightness and to correct for any oval stars. I also use the computer to add color to stars or objects to match my observations. Some people prefer to keep sketches more traditional and not use the computer for such touch-ups. This is a personal preference. Each person's sketching methods and style will evolve and will become truly unique.

In preparing a paper for making sketches, I use a standard coffee can to trace out a large (~ 5 inch diameter?) circle with a dark black pen. Some people prefer to use much smaller circles, though. This will be another thing that each observer customizes. I started out using 3-inch diameter circles which were much less daunting, but over time, I found that they were just too small to fit in the often subtle details I was able to view.

One last thought - since I started sketching objects, I've been able to see far more as a visual amateur astronomer. Before I started sketching, objects tended to look more alike than different. Putting the details to the paper, though, forced me to focus on what was really at the eyepiece. Suddenly, I found that I was able to capture all sorts of fantastic detail in deep sky targets. Maybe other sketchers have found this transformation, too?

- Jay
South Florida


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NeoDinian
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Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: JayKSC]
      #3544019 - 01/06/10 06:55 PM

Nice info... I may include some of that in my presentation.

I have log files that I got (I believe) from Jeremy Perez. He had many that I liked for various objects...

Using his for inspiration, I made some for my specific use. The idea being that each log would be uniform.

I do like your idea of starting with the coffee can tracing. Perhaps something smaller would be less imposing to the newbie. (Peanut butter jar lid)... Ideas are flowing now for a "Start" for my presentation.

It's also the "Little things" that I wouldn't think about that I could add to the program also. Your tip about the paper type is something I would have NEVER thought of.

I'm hoping to gather as much info as possible about various techniques and tips, as well as the images both before, and after processing to show the whole process in my program.

I've added this thread to my favorites and will check in frequently. The date for the program is not set yet, but (as the board chairman) I know I can squeeze it in sometime by May/June... So I have time to make this nice.

Who knows... After all this, I may just become a regular in this forum...


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JayKSC
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Reged: 01/01/05

Loc: Florida
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3544366 - 01/06/10 10:00 PM

Jeff,

Glad to be able to help out. Jeremy's sketches are also great, inspiring, examples. His work inspired me to go farther with my own sketching! I'd be happy to "rework" one of my older sketches that I never scanned at a later date for you. I can then save the raw, unaltered, image and then show what some simple computer processing can do with it.

- Jay
South Florida


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frank5817
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Reged: 06/13/06

Loc: Illinois
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: JayKSC]
      #3544494 - 01/06/10 11:07 PM

Jeff,

Sounds like you are preparing an interesting presentation. I have about 125 or so sketches in my gallery with dates and other information such as type of media used, etc. You are welcome to any of it.

Frank McCabe


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Uwe Pilz
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/16/08

Loc: Leipzig, Germany
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: frank5817]
      #3544767 - 01/07/10 02:28 AM

Dear Jeff,

if it is of use for you please feel free to use any of my sketches for your work. You find the link in the signature.


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markseibold
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/19/08

Loc: Portland Oregon
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3544839 - 01/07/10 04:46 AM

Jeff

Feel free to use any of my combination lunar wide-field whole moon images with accompanying close-up craters and other surface features. I believe I have logged all entries with dates and UT times.

Also feel free to direct any questions about any of the works in my gallery, lunar, solar, or few nebula and planetary.

*See my gallery link for seven pages [12 images per page with descriptions] >

My CN Gallery

Mark
www.markseibold.com

“My mission responsibilities range over the entire operartion of the ship so I am constantly occupied; I’m putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any concious entity could ever hope to do.”

Edited by markseibold (01/07/10 05:17 AM)


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yann pothier
member


Reged: 10/16/07

Loc: Paris, France
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: markseibold]
      #3545030 - 01/07/10 09:21 AM

Jeff> you can have a look (and use) a pdf-presentation I set up 2 years ago (in french) at the following URL (beware it is 30Mo huge) :

http://www.astrosurf.com/cielextreme/RCE2008_beaux-dessins.pdf

my goal was to present spectacular deep-sky drawings, and also different drawings means and ways of doing it. Although it doesn't propose sketching techniques, it shows various results.

I also have one on the history of drawing the deep-sky (25 Mo) at :
http://www.astrosurf.com/cielextreme/anciens_dessins.pdf

where you can see that the « classical » observers were drawing too !

clear skies, Yann


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starquake
sage


Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Nádasdladány
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3545059 - 01/07/10 09:34 AM

Hi Jeff,

Feel free to use any of my sketches in your presentation. The link to my drawings you can find in my footer. I always write descriptions to my sketches and taking notes of the conditions. Beneath these notes, you'll find links to larger inverted images, and the original white on black drawings. I'm also a beginner in sketching, rarely altering my sketches once they are finished at the EP. I'm sketching now for two years: after a year I noticed that my vision got much better, and now I see about 1 magnitude fainter stars easily under the same conditions. Another change I noticed is that now I can split Epsylon Lyrae to two stars with the unaided eye.

Just some thoughts:

- I found that using too large circles for drawing sometimes makes it hard to accurately capture field star positions, because your cannot easily see the entire circle at once. Another thing about circles: if you find the size ideal for you, don't mix different circles anymore: I noticed I have difficulties with accuracy if I change circle diameters.

- Some folks overemphasize details of objects, or simply drawing faint objects too bright related to its field stars. This may also be a good techniques sometimes, but I still try to draw everything only as bright how I saw it. A very nice example to accurate brightness are the sketches of Rony De Laet.

- I never use erasers in the dark if I made a mistake, because usually they just make much trouble on a wet paper. Instead I just mark or note the detail that should be fixed later (eg. if I find that a star is not exactly where I put it, I just gently cross it with a line, and remove the star later)

- I use printer papers for drawing, they indeed got soaked with moisture on the field, so I keep them in a waterproof place before and after sketching. If I have to stop sketching for a short time (eg. changing an eyepiece), I usually put the paper in my big eyepiece-case for that time, so its covered.


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JanisR
newbie


Reged: 06/26/08

Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: yann pothier]
      #3545081 - 01/07/10 09:43 AM

It's always great to hear that somebody is spreading the word. Feel free to use any of my drawings in your presentation. My turn at presenting a talk (a loooooong time ago) was entitled "Cheap Astronomy: The Joy of Sketch". That was waaaaaaaaay back, before we had the Internet, digital imaging and Powerpoint to make things easier. I'm talking 35mm slides and a projector. :-0

Since then, sketching at the eyepiece has evolved in ways I never imagined, and every day we see here proof that neither photography nor imaging can kill the joy of doing it yourself. When I see the wonderful work being posted here, I often feel like a proud grandma.

If I could suggest one tip for beginners, it would be this: STAY AWAY from photographic images before you attempt to sketch an astronomical onject. Be aware that perception is not just seeing! Your brain can deceive you; it remembers what it has seen before and will attempt to "fill in" details your eye isn't actually seeing. (My personal favorite example is M42, which I have viewed so many times through large aperture scopes that I now *preceive* (as opposed to "see") the green color in the nebula through any size telescope, and sometimes even naked eye. I am aware that I am not actually seeing the color, it's just my little biochemical version of Photoshop at work. :-))


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NeoDinian
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Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: JanisR]
      #3545595 - 01/07/10 01:48 PM

Ok, GREAT selection of sketches to work with!

Starquake: I'll probably be using a lot of yours, as you have the original (White paper) versions as well.

But there are sketches from others that I'll use as well, as I'm showing a "Progression" of styles as well as level (Beginner, etc...).

What I would like to find now are 2 specific things... I would LOVE to find a "Then and Now" drawing (white paper if possible, but I can invert). Something that really shows ones progress in this.

The other would be a small tutorial of sketches for a "Simple" start using only the basic of tools that most people would have (Pencil, paper and eraser). Something I can use in the presentation to show how one would get started.

I'm already working on an outline (from the inspiration I'm getting from all your work!). Getting ideas what images to use with each "Slide". I think this is going to be a great project!

Thanks again everyone!


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jayscheuerle
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Reged: 01/16/06

Loc: S. Philadelphia, PA
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3545662 - 01/07/10 02:21 PM

Jeff, you're welcome to use anything from my planetary tutorial.

Drawing Jupiter.

Favorite Jupe.

- j


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cpl43uk
sage


Reged: 02/09/08

Loc: Bristol, UK
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3546057 - 01/07/10 05:13 PM

The reason I got into sketching was because I always felt the sales blurb for telescopes focused on "coffee table images" that frankly were a disappointment in the eyepieces of scopes working in "typical urban skies". I knew a few that were put off astronomy as a result. I came across the book "Turn Left at Orion" that had really useful sketches of the targets and were very realistic and so thought sketching might be a way to let others know what we mean by "faint fuzzies". They may not be Hubble images but they are a heck of a lot of fun to track down and capture.

As others have said - sketching is a great way to really get aquainted with a star field. I used to hop about a bit with the scope but when I went back inside the family would quiz me on what I had seen and to my shame I sometimes couldn't remember. Since I have started sketching I have had to (a) prepare in advance - make a conscious effort to plan my observing time and targets; get drawing material and lamps working (its a pain when the redlight dies on you with no battery in sight!); get warm gloves (:-) etc (b) find the object and then decide the best resolution for the sketch (c) sketch - personally I have a clipboard with a predrawn template that has evolved to suit my needs, a selection of pencils and eraser plus the redlight. My sketches are as accurate as I can make them but are covered in annotations about star brightnesses etc and have various triangles drawn that reflect how I "join the dots" etc (d) I then draw the scene on a fresh template indoors and scan into photoshop where I invert the image, correct for rotation (North-West) and then redraft the image using a set of template stars created in photoshop again to suit my needs or else recreate the "faint fuzzies" with the Photshop pallete. Personally I have no problem with mixing "real" sketching with digital touch ups.

One thing I always try to do in advance is read up on the night's target. I get a real buzz just thinking about what I'm looking at as I draw and one day I'll find a set of podcasts that I can play that tells me more as I draw!

And this site is a mine of information. I have learnt so much by lurking and more recently sharing observations. Unfortunately sometimes I get depressed when those in seriously dark skies submit their efforts - green with envy!

Feel free to use my Gallery (link in signature)


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Jeff Young
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Reged: 08/04/05

Loc: Ireland
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: cpl43uk]
      #3547736 - 01/08/10 12:36 PM

Jeff --

You can browse my sketches at http://www.rokeby.ie/observatory/pages/sketches.html. If you find any you'd like to include, give a holler and I'll print out the observing report that goes with it (I log them all in AstroPlanner).

I've included a couple of examples here:

Quote:

Arp113 10/11/2009 22:05 UT; Pickering 7, NELM 5.5, SQM 20.6
400mm Mak-Cass @ 325X

NGC68 and 71 readily apparent, 72 a bit less so, but it's rather hard to tell what else is a foreground star and what's a galaxy core at 235X. 450X helps some, identifying "star" to SSW as a galaxy (NGC69).

[Interestingly I still failed to spot NGC70 (which is one of the larger galaxies in the field). Since I did manage the similarly dim NGC69, I can only guess that 70 faded into the glare of the two nearby foreground stars. I also mis-identified NGC72A as a star.]








I also have some less-esoteric objects, such as:

Quote:

M27 Dumbbell Nebula 10/16/2009 22:15 UT; Pickering 8, NELM 5.5, SQM 20.6
400mm Mak-Cass @ 150X, UHC

S side of apple core brighter and fairly linear, with a slightly more bulbous E end. N side more curved, with an easy, direct-vision field star inside the arc. Central star also direct-vision, but more difficult.

Some extent of nebulosity outside apple core unfiltered, but the UHC really brings out the football shape. Extension of very dim averted-vision material outside the WNW of the arc describing the football.





Cheers,
-- Jeff.


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Jeff Young
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Reged: 08/04/05

Loc: Ireland
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: Jeff Young]
      #3547743 - 01/08/10 12:39 PM

Jeff --

Michael Rosolina put together a really nice presentation on sketching last year. You might ask him if you can beg/borrow parts of it.

-- Jeff.


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NeoDinian
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Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: Jeff Young]
      #3549491 - 01/09/10 10:07 AM

Cool.... I like your notes Jeff. Good descriptions.

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NeoDinian
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Reged: 10/05/05

Loc: Rockford Illinois
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3557080 - 01/12/10 08:45 PM

Got a nice selection so far...

Still looking for more though.

Naked Eye Constellation sketches...

Some Then and Now comparisons (Planets, Nebula, Etc...)

Thanks all...


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Kris.
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/16/04

Loc: Belgium
Re: A Call for Sketches, Club program in the making! new [Re: NeoDinian]
      #3561962 - 01/15/10 07:35 AM

if you can use them, you're free to use mine as well.
my gallery is here on cn,follow the link in my sig-line!
mostly planets (mars) though.


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