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Anonymous
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Wind River Mesa 10x50..I've read some passionate reviews, some extactic, some swearing at it.... What is the current thought on these binos? Does Leupold has serious issues with QC? How do they compare in relation of sharpness and chromatic abherration to the pentaxes (pcf's), and Celestrons? (are the Ultima and Noble on a higher ground?)
Perhaps this questioning belongs in the beginners section, however, I was searching the fora and could not find a comparison...
All thoughts appreciated!
thx in advance
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Laszlo,
I should preface my comments by saying that my previous experience with binoculars are confined to cheap pairs of 7x35's, and small 8x21's.
I have a pair of Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50 and I am pleased with them. I used them terrestially, for bird spotting and wildlife, and they perform well.
When the sun goes down, I mostly use them for satellite tracking and/or general astronomical uses. They are quite good at picking out the Messier objects, especially at a dark location and good viewing conditions.
I observed comet Machholz without too much effort a few months ago.
Overall, I am happy, especially because these are priced below $200, and I didn't need a 2nd mortgage as I would had I purchased the pricier binocs available out there.
I hope this helped you out somewhat.
Bill in WI
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12601
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Wind River Mesa 10x50..I've read some passionate reviews, some extactic, some swearing at it
Perhaps this questioning belongs in the beginners section,
Laszlo
You have brought your question to the right place. Both Barry Simon and Mike Swaim use the Wind River Binocs. Mike definitely likes them. I don't recall if we have a review linked from the minireviews thread, but Mike mentions them in "Light Trap's beginning binocular suggestions." Is that the Binoc that Barry took to the bottom of the swimming pool?
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Keep well in mind that my only experience with these was with a Gen 2 model that well predates the "Mesa" designation. For all I know, they may be completely different now. I'm aware of at least 3 revisions of this model prior to the "Mesa" line. The 1st series was terrible. The 2nd was fantastic. Others are unkown to me.
Mike Swaim
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks for all info so far 
I´ve posted this question in several brazilian astro fora and although pretty few people answered (only two, actually), they compared their (new) Leupolds favorably in relation to the Pentax PCF WP II - saying that it is as clear as (the pentax) and having an equivalent color correction and usefull FOV (with an additional .5*). Too bad they live pretty far from me, so I can only give this tiny 2nd hand review...
Now I´m really leaning towards this model - however, gonna have to wait till July (That´s when a friend living in the US will come to visit me - no way I´m going to pay 60% tax to import it!!) to post my impressions here.
So, still have time to research, still have time to change my mind.
Best regards...
Edited by Laszlo Kovacs (02/28/05 07:11 AM)
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Erik D
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 2574
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Laszlo
You have brought your question to the right place. Both Barry Simon and Mike Swaim use the Wind River Binocs. Mike definitely likes them. I don't recall if we have a review linked from the minireviews thread, ........... Is that the Binoc that Barry took to the bottom of the swimming pool?
edz
I think the pair Barry was photograped with in the pool was a prototype 7X50 Burgess Waterproof bino. (Message # 157327, 7/27/04). I don't think this model made it to volume production.
As Mike said, many of the Leupold models have the same name but could be of differnet OEM sources. My decision to purchase the WindRiver Olympic 12X50 roof prism( NOV 04) was partly based on a very favorable report posted by another binocular enthusiast(Kimbal C, May 04). Kimbal confirmed his Olympic 10X50 is marked "made in Japan". My 12X50 is made in China. Otherwise they look identical.
Erik D
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BarrySimon615
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 924
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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I recently purchased (for a Deep South Regional StarGaze doorprize) a pair of the Wind River Mesa 8x42 binoculars. Currently on sale at $149.99 and with the $30 off coupon I had, only $119.99 plus shipping. I think they are pretty good. They feel hefty for their size, but that is ok by me, I like heavy binoculars. Heavy is a relative term and heavy here is several ounces under 30. The weight helps to dampen out "micro-shake".
The views are also relatively sharp - not quite as sharp as the Nikon Action Extreme at field center, but equivalent to the Pentax PCF V and WP at field center. Better than the Nikon's at field edge and equivalent to the Pentax at field edge. The field is less than what you get with the Nikon Action Extreme, but a little more than what you have with the Pentax.
The Wind River Mesa also has a focus lock feature which is good. I also believe these are virtually identical (same factory/same specs/just slightly different cosmetics) to the Orion Savannah series.
Features I do not like include the "Guard Dog" studded spikes on the focus wheel and around the eye cups. I also do not like the case. It is made of a thin "mouse pad" material and it does not seem protective at all.
Note - the swimming pool binoculars were not the Leupold Wind River Mesa 8x42. They were the 7x50 Burgess waterproof prototype as described in the previous post.
Barry Simon
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1517
Loc: Liberal, Kansas
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Barry,
They do appear to be the essentially the same as the Orion Savannah, except for the rubber nibs. I tried one (Mesa) at Wal-Mart last year, and thought it was pretty good. I compared it to a Nikon 10X50 Action V they had on display (the Mesas are locked up in a glass display, you have to ask to see them since they are more expensive). The Nikon looked a little sharper at the center, as you mentioned (although you were comparing the EX model), but the Mesas appeared a bit brighter.
I didn't care for the little cilia (nibs) on the EP and focuser. I would imagine they would eventually tear off with use. The rubber armoring has a nice look and feel to it, and the prism housing ergonomics, more rounded than the PCF V and oddly shaped Action V, was comfortable to hold (the EX model improved on this).
The ER was a little tight with my thin polycarbonate glasses, despite the advertised 18mm, seemed more like 16mm (like the Savannah), but the ER still was much better than the Nikon, which was an "eyelash brusher".
You mentioned the weight was good for stabilization like the PCF V series on your other thread. I find mid-range weight bins work best for me, ~22-29 oz. At 20 oz. or less, I get the "jitters" quickly, so forget compacts, at 32 oz. or more, I get the jitters, but only after holding the bins for awhile, as my arms start to get tired.
Of course, the ergonomics can extend this range for me, at least upward. At 32 oz., the Nikon 12X50 Superior E felt much lighter and was much easier to hold steadier for longer perioids than the Orion 10X50 Ultraview, which weighs exactly the same.
--------------------
Oscar Zoroaster Diggs
"O.Z."
#########################################
"And remember, my sentimental friend....a heart is not judged by how much you love,
but by how much you are loved by others."
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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How can you tell what version of the Mesa's that you have. I got a pair of them a few weeks ago to have as companions to my Nikon 10x50 AEXs so my wife and I can both use binocs at the same time. Mine have no markings except the Wind River logo.
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hmmmmm.... since the 1st line was horrible and the second very good (better than the AE's), how does your pair of Wind River compares to your AE's? If it's worse, it may be from the 1st line. If it's better, from the 2nd. It they're all equal... well... you got the idea.
Not the most precise way of telling, but this is better than nothing
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I think this is yet another example of over -useage of a "name" or "title" leading to confusion.
But at least with "Leupold" , " Wind River" and "Mesa" there ARE THREE names to go at , which might mean something to somebody :-)
Unimaginary model names for the recent crop of Chinese offerings , and the sense of there being an increasing number of "very similar" products being marketed under different names , makes me dread to think what the situation will be like in another decade or so ,by which time , on current form , China will have completely taken over the industrial and commercial world -- if not THE WORLD
If I'm still alive then , it will be interesting to see if I'm still as happy as I am at present to think that what I consider to be my best four binoculars and best scope were all made in either Germany or Japan.
Or come 2015 , will I be thinking :
"I wish I could afford one of those CHINESE 10 x 50s" ?
Makes you wonder , doesn't it ?
Well , at least it made ME wonder !
I suppose it doesn't take a lot to make ME wonder :-)
Clear skies , Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 29817
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Serious question...might get a serious answer... 
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I do not care for the Wind River line. From speaking with a number of sources, including Loopy, they get a lot of these binos back. They have a substantial number of the W.R. spotting scopes serviced as well. Quality control is spotty at best. I am of the opinion that if you want a Loopy product buy a real Loopy product. The new Gold rings are excellent, they are made in OR and you have that wonderful Loopy customer service.
ranburr
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2111
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
I am of the opinion that if you want a Loopy product buy a real Loopy product. The new Gold rings are excellent, they are made in OR and you have that wonderful Loopy customer service.
ranburr
I give up. I guess I will have to speak with $$$--certainly meaning no offense to Ranburr.
I WILL SEND $50 TO ANYONE WHO CAN PROVE TO ME THAT ANY CONSUMER BINOCULAR IS ACTUALLY MANUFACTURED IN THE UNITED STATES BY THE COMPANY WHOSE NAME IS ON THE BOX!
I don't want to see pictures of a warehouse or hear old wives tales. I want to see rows of Strausbaugh polishers; I want to see rows of new bodies waiting to be assembled; I want to see collimators sitting side by side. I want to see stacks of plastic bins full of objective lenses awaiting installation. I want an address so that I may go there and see the operation and, if it is true, apply for a job!
Four months ago, a cowboy type (You know: the guys who pronounce Luu-pold as Lee-ah-pold) came into the shop and wanted to buy a Burris binocular. He didn’t want “none of that ole Japanese junk.” He wanted an American binocular. I tried to convince him that there were none. But 35 years in the optics industry didn’t have a chance up against 60 years of being arrogant and ignorant, so across my bow he shot:
“I know for a FACT that the *bleep* things ARE made in the United States ‘cause I had lunch with the Vice-President of the company just last week.”
While we all make mistakes, I want to be sure I give my customers the most accurate information available. So, when the customer huffed off, I immediately called Burris and asked to speak to the Vice-President. He was in a meeting, but I got a reply from their head of marketing:
“I’m afraid your customer must have misunderstood our vice-president; we do not manufacture our own binoculars and never have. It says this quite plainly on our website.”
I then went to the website. Therein it states:
“Made to Burris specifications by the very best international premium optics manufactures.”
Now then, if anyone wants to take me to task about TASCO, Jason, Bushnell, Simmons, Weems & Plath, Swift, Celestron, Orion, Meade, or the plethora of other “American” brands, please don’t. Just tell me where in the States to go to see a shop wherein I may see a line of binoculars being produced for the general public and collect the $50.00. No, wait, let’s make that $100.00. I can assure you that as a tenth-generation American, I would be ecstatic to lose that bet.
I’ll crawl back in my hole now.
Bill
PS With Leupold's fine reputation, standing in the industry, and the award's they have won for being a great employer, there's something about "Loopy" that just doesn't seem to serve them justly.
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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Hi Bill, I found this on the Leupold website.
http://www.leupold.com/products/birding_observation/about_Leupold.htm
Edited by Craig Simmons (03/04/05 01:31 PM)
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2111
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hi Craig:
I am aware. But, read it more closely. Whence come the heart of the product--the optics.
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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In the fourth paragraph they say the optics are "designed, machined and assembled" at their Beaverton facillity.
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Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2111
Loc: Washington, USA
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First, let me say that if that line of products is completely manufactured in Beaverton (I will investigate), I will stand completely corrected, send you $100.00, and be happy as a clam.
In the meantime, however, you must admit that "optics" is used to refer to instruments even more than elements. I run an "optics" repair shop and an "optics" store. But I no longer produce optical elements for those "optics."
Finally, when I pressed the Leupold Rep who visited me some time back, while I was considering the line, he told me.
"Well, we really just produce two models in the States, both pocket models, and the optics are from oversea."
I really don't want to drive to Portland. By the same token, I don't want to lose $100 to Rhetoric and marketing. So, If anyone known to this binocular list, has been there and has personally SEEN THE PRODUCTION of lenses and prisms, I will cry "Uncle." Bear in mind that elements in a tray do not constitute them being manufactured there. A line of 10-20 Strausbaugh polishers would cinch it for me--especially if there was a photo.
I would like to conclude by saying that I am in no way trying to impugn Leupold; I am not saying that I find their product inferior. I am just saying that I do not believe that they are COMPLETELY designed and built in the United States.
I would be very GLAD to sell you one of MY 7x50's "Captain's Helmsman" binoculars. Our Company has been all-American for 108-years. But, does that mean the bino itself is American? Of course not; I buy it from the same OEM that sells to more than a dozen of the biggest names in Japanese optics.
Cheers,
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
Edited by billcook (03/04/05 02:16 PM)
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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/10/03
Posts: 1502
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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No $100 for me. I didn't meet your criteria of presenting pictures you required for proof. I have no immediate plans for a visit to Beaverton also. Maybe they do make the optics for their Gold Ring line, maybe they don't. Maybe they take overseas optics and fine tune them with additional polishing and call them "American Made".
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Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010
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rouseyfire
super member
Reged: 11/09/04
Posts: 143
Loc: loveland,colorado
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I don't know what a Strausbaugh polisher looks like--but on Leupold's web site that was referenced by Craig, if you go to HOME then to CORPORATE, you will see "virtual tour". This takes the viewer through several photos of the plant.
One slide entitled "clean room" shows the manufacturing of optics with the caption reading "Leupold manufactures all of our optical products..."
Not sure if you can see any polishers in the slide presentation or not.
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glenn
Orion SVP 127 Mak
Pentax 8x32SP
Pentax 12x50
Oberwerk 20x80 deluxe II
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