Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
Scott Rose
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: beachwood ohio
AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma
      #3565837 - 01/17/10 09:51 AM

These two mounts are fairly close in price, load capacity, and weight. Yet, there are some real distinct differences. For those of you who have one of these, what made you pick one over the other, and those who have had experiences with either, what do you think. Assume availability is not an issue.
The load I am will be using is far under the max load. I presently have a vixen sxd and want to get into AP and will be imaging with a NP127is. So the two issues to me are is it worth the large investment over what I have, and if yes, which mount. Thanks.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jaxdialation
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/01/07

Loc: Northeast, FL
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3565869 - 01/17/10 10:12 AM

What mount do you have now ? Will you have to set up each night you will use the mount?

The only reason to upgrade is to get more capability which you can use. How is your guiding with your current mount? How long are your subs, do you want them longer? If you have to set up each night, is it worth your while to polar align in about 15 minutes?

Quote:

So the two issues to me are is it worth the large investment over what I have, and if yes, which mount. Thanks.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
WarrenS
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/04/08

Loc: Orange County New York
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3565885 - 01/17/10 10:21 AM

Go back in this forum about a week. Same general question came up with very good answers.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Rose
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: beachwood ohio
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: WarrenS]
      #3565952 - 01/17/10 10:51 AM

That thread assumed you already had the tak and deciding whether to switch mounts. My question goes more to the initial purchase and why.

Edited by Scott Rose (01/17/10 02:51 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dan G
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/27/06

Loc: Minisink, NY, USA
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3567189 - 01/17/10 08:56 PM

Scott -

What imaging gear do you intend to use? I had the EM-200 with the ST-2000 on the NP127is. Worked very well. I was quite pleases with the setup and the polar scope is a dream if you set up each night. Then changed cameras to an FLI8300 with the FLI CFW2-7 plus a guide scope and camera(ST-402). All of the added weight on the end of the scope really changed the moment arm. I needed to really work on the balance to maintain the great tracking I had before. I moved up to the AP900. Also a great mount but I miss the simplicity of the Taks.

Dan in NY


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Rose
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: beachwood ohio
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Dan G]
      #3567228 - 01/17/10 09:13 PM

Dan, I plan on using the np127is and either the st200xcm or the canon xsi.
Did the lack of the hand controller bother you? I know you can use the little pocket pc instead of the hand controller but not familiar with the set up. I also think the tak is heavier than the mach1.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Smo
sage


Reged: 01/19/09

Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3568709 - 01/18/10 03:41 PM

I believe none of the Taks have any PEC. Now if you get good polar alignment the PE is low enough that with guiding you should be fine.

However it is nice to know that the AP comes with PEMPro pre-programmed into the hand pad and once turned on you can get as good as sub arc second PE.

I had this debate last year as well and in the end I just couldn't deny myself the possibility to achieve the lowest PE possible.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pop
sage


Reged: 02/11/05

Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Smo]
      #3570569 - 01/19/10 02:11 PM

If money is not an issue.

If my total weight on the mount exclude counter-weights is 7 kg. or less. I would choose EM200 for sure. Because due to easy setup and very easy to do Polar alignment using its Polar scope.

If my equipment's weight is 10 kg. or more, I'm sure that Mach1 will shine. Mach1 can handle 15 kg. easily.

Pros of EM 200
==============
- more easy setup if equipment weight is 7-8 kg. or less (EM200 can handle up to 12 kg., I had use 17-18 kg. and found it is upper limit but nor recommended)
- very good Polar Alignment Scope and you will miss it.
- acceptable PE and very low random noise of gear and motor.
- I like EM200's ASCOM driver produced by Chuck. It is very good and intuitive than Mach1.

Con of EM200
============
- very slow slew rate
- require 24 V-DC if you want to go 700X.
- if you go more than 10 kg. you may consider about balancing issue. I never pass guiding 30 minute sub exposure. 15 min is good but not pass 30 minute. (12 kg load)
- can't pass meridian well like Mach1 did.
- control box of EM200 is stay side of a mount. It may get balance issue due to cable weight.
- too sensitive of balance. If you don't balance well enough, you may get experience not guiding issue.
- don't have a powerful hand controller. you mus use Temma drive ASCOM instead.

Pro of Mach1
===========
- very good load capacity. 18 kg. is very easy to handle.
- cable routing way is very useful to avoid complex cable management and avoid any cable issue like EM200 did.
- very good slew speed.
- very powerful of hand control box. It did like a small computer without real computer.
- very accurate Goto than EM200 temma II.

Con of Mach1
============
- Bad polar alignment. I have to do Drift alignment every time I do AP. I miss EM200 polar scope.
- Eagle pier is a bit heavy and not handy like tripod wood in EM200. ( I use Berlebach wooden tripod for EM200)
- But Eagle pier is very steady. I also like them but a bit weighty.
- Eagle pier is hard to do leveling.
- Ascom driver of Mach1 (4.99 produced by Ray) is not intuitive like EM200 Chuck did.
- Mach1 accessories is too many part. it is a bit confuse to use with.

Hope this help. I'm sorry that I didn't reply you fast. I just saw your PM. And I'm sorry for my bad English.

POP


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jaxdialation
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/01/07

Loc: Northeast, FL
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3570822 - 01/19/10 04:08 PM

Have you gotten your question answered? You are looking at several thousand dollars. If you don't know what you hope to gain from the upgrade you might well catch "analysis paralysis"

Quote:

My question goes more to the initial purchase and why.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RAKing
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: pop]
      #3570882 - 01/19/10 04:45 PM

Quote:

Con of Mach1
============
- Bad polar alignment. I have to do Drift alignment every time I do AP. I miss EM200 polar scope.
- Eagle pier is a bit heavy and not handy like tripod wood in EM200. ( I use Berlebach wooden tripod for EM200)
- But Eagle pier is very steady. I also like them but a bit weighty.
- Eagle pier is hard to do leveling.
- Ascom driver of Mach1 (4.99 produced by Ray) is not intuitive like EM200 Chuck did.
- Mach1 accessories is too many part. it is a bit confuse to use with.




I am only a visual astronomer now and have never compared the A-P polar scope to the Tak, but my PASIL4 polar scope works very well on the Mach1. It has the Losmandy reticle pattern, so it was very easy for me to transition from my old Losmandy mount to the Mach 1. As long as I put Polaris in the proper spot, my scope finds and tracks everything great. You can fine tune it for imaging, but this should get you into the ball park.

I use a Losmandy GM-11 tripod with my Mach 1. It's a bit weighty, but very stable.

But the biggest selling point for me was the A-P hand control. It's the easiest and best I've ever used.

Cheers,

Ron


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott Rose
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/20/08

Loc: beachwood ohio
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: RAKing]
      #3571147 - 01/19/10 07:07 PM

John, seems like the AP mount is the better way to go for a couple of reasons that matter to me. The first is that it does not need a PC, so for casual observing the AP hand controller seems the better option. The weight of the AP is less than the Tak. The AP hand controller is better in the cold than either a laptop or a handheld pc. The only drawback I can see is the Tak is much more expensive than the tak. Another advantage of the AP is that if something goes wrong, it can be repaired here in the states by AP. I am not sure, but I assume the Tak would need to go back to Japan. I really need to find out more about the handheld PC and how good it is. Then I can make my decision. Thanks everyone for your honest input. Scott

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3571222 - 01/19/10 07:46 PM

> Bad polar alignment. I have to do Drift
> alignment every time I do AP. I miss EM200 polar scope.

This is a perpetual Tak advantage, but I dont understand why, is there something technologically challenging about adapting a Tak polar scope into a simple threaded bore?

best
Mike Clemens


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DeanS
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Central Kentucky
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #3571336 - 01/19/10 08:32 PM

Maybe I am just lucky, but my polar scope works extremely well in both my 900 and 1200. And on my Mach1 I just sold it worked great too.

At star parties I generally do not spend much, if any, time using pempro to check the alignment. Sometimes it is nearly perfect, others time might have to spend 10-15 minutes but it is never off by much.

To me having the option of using the handcontroller is important, particularly if I am doing visual observing. But I imagine it is what ever you get used to.

Dean


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ylin
sage


Reged: 05/23/05

Loc: Irvine, CA
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: DeanS]
      #3571550 - 01/19/10 10:08 PM

Do you need to do draft alignment for AP with AP Mark1 every time? Or put it in another way, how long I can get for a sub without doing draft alignment?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mariobmd
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/14/07

Loc: Jackson, Ohio
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Scott Rose]
      #3572905 - 01/20/10 02:54 PM

Hi Scott,

For ease of set up and polar alignment, go for an EM200. For more functionality without a computer, go for a Mach1.
Both mounts tracks well. Both are good for imaging. I regret selling my EM200 since this would complement my AP1200.

Regards,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Virginia
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #3572998 - 01/20/10 03:34 PM

Quote:


This is a perpetual Tak advantage, but I dont understand why, is there something technologically challenging about adapting a Tak polar scope into a simple threaded bore?

best
Mike Clemens




I've wondered the same thing for quite some time. Must be some reason...?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Takman
sage


Reged: 02/25/09

Loc: Maple, ON - Canada
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3574696 - 01/21/10 11:53 AM

Hi Scott,

I chose the Mach1GTO over the Takahashi EM200 mount. Although I own a Takahashi telescope, I felt the Mach1 offered the following benefits:

- Cold weather performance
- Compact form factor that allows me to hide and funnel wires down the center of the mount
- A hand controller without the need for a PC

However, both mounts will be great performers.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Balok
member


Reged: 05/18/09

Loc: Alberta
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Takman]
      #3589059 - 01/28/10 09:36 AM

Thanks for the info folks, I am making this decision now.
My EM 10 USD 2 is too small for an NP 127 etc.

I was out at - 15 C last week and the Pronto, Gibralter head & cradle got osteoarthritis.

Taks are great mounts but a 5 degrees Celsius lower threshold is a problem. - Northern Canada is not Hawaii.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TxStars
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/01/05

Loc: Lost In Space
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3589311 - 01/28/10 12:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:


This is a perpetual Tak advantage, but I dont understand why, is there something technologically challenging about adapting a Tak polar scope into a simple threaded bore?

best
Mike Clemens




I've wondered the same thing for quite some time. Must be some reason...?




Yes there is a reason, most of the Tak polar scopes are not removable from the mounts (They are part of the R.A. Axis) I have taken some of them apart to replace the reticle and it is not for the faint of heart.
Some of the mounts (Space-Boy and the Teegul Sky Patrol II) have removable polar scopes that could be adapted to a mount.
I seem to remember a well known mount maker using a takakashi polar scope on one of his mountings. You would have to ask "Art" at Tak USA if he remembers which one it was. (Ed Byres?)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: AP Mach1 GTO vs. Tak EM200 Temma new [Re: TxStars]
      #3589382 - 01/28/10 12:40 PM

The Tak polar scopes work in conjunction with a longitude offset guage and bubble level on the mount, you would need to rig something if you wanted to use it in another scope i think.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
26 registered and 42 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave M, richard7, bilgebay 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 5847

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics