Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Observing >> Solar Observing and Imaging

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging?
      #3743010 - 04/13/10 04:18 PM

Has anybody had any experience of the Opticstar PL-131M Coolair? http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Imagers-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_0_50_88

At 22fps it delivers a 1280x1024 pixel fov. That would be plenty for a full disk from quite a few of the smaller Ha scopes...

The best bit - it costs 199 which is pretty much half the price of a DMK41, with a larger field and faster frame rate. I'm kinda tempted by one


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pjr200
Post Laureate


Reged: 08/29/07

Loc: Staffordshire, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: marktownley]
      #3743020 - 04/13/10 04:26 PM

I think CMOS chips (rather than ccd chips) have lower sensitivty although this is not much of an issue on the sun as long as the noise is low. Not heard anything about about it.

Edited by pjr200 (04/13/10 04:31 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zjc26138
Loved By All
*****

Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Mingo Junction, Ohio
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: pjr200]
      #3743505 - 04/13/10 08:38 PM

It looks pretty interesting for the price at 270.00 US.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Oldfield
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 03/20/02

Loc: Hong Kong
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: zjc26138]
      #3743779 - 04/13/10 11:01 PM

Worth to try.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Oldfield]
      #3744037 - 04/14/10 04:11 AM

They have an intersting range. Look at this one though http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Imagers-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_0_50_81 - same resolution, 12fps but 10 bit resolution... Oh, the price 149 is even more tempting still. I'm sooooo tempted to give one a go...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pjr200
Post Laureate


Reged: 08/29/07

Loc: Staffordshire, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: marktownley]
      #3744102 - 04/14/10 06:06 AM

Stop that! Your getting me tempted as well
I'm toying with the idea of getting a camera with the new icx618 ccd chipset (although still 640x480) which has much more sensitivty than the DMK cameras.

Edited by pjr200 (04/14/10 07:28 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Montana
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/02/10

Loc: Cheshire, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: pjr200]
      #3744149 - 04/14/10 07:18 AM

Hi Mark,
In January I was seriously considering this camera, but all of you lot persuaded me to get the DMK41 (which is great) !!!. No one seems to have used this camera and it made me nervous. I only found one review on the web and they said that the software was a bit dodgy and difficult to get working. However they have just updated the software and camera a few weeks ago. Another thing at the time was that the software didn't work with Windows 7 64 bit and that would be coming in mid 2010, in January I was just not that patient to wait!
If you do get it I would be very interested in hearing a review.
Regards
Alexandra


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
stephenramsden
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/17/07

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Montana]
      #5524789 - 11/17/12 05:54 PM

Im reviewing it now...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: stephenramsden]
      #5524879 - 11/17/12 06:51 PM

Stephen, please link us to the review when you are done.

I almost bought one of these before I got the software to let the SSAG work as a QHY5. Once I had the QHY5 working I thought this one might be redundant.

It will be interesting to see the review.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
aposunwatch
member


Reged: 11/15/12

Loc: Naperville, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5524984 - 11/17/12 07:49 PM

This camera looks like it is begging to be taken apart and modified with a TEC. It already has a built in fan controller which is rare for such a cheap camera.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: aposunwatch]
      #5525996 - 11/18/12 12:08 PM

1. Do not use a Micron CMOS for solar imaging. Either rolling shutter or usually strong Newton rings will kill the imaging.

2. Opticstar isn't a good brand In Europe you have Basler, IDS Imaging, TIS or also Point Grey cameras with better sensors and usually a good group of users.

If you want a big diagonal - 1/1.8" like in DMK51 but faster, cheaper and with better sensitivity - try e2v CMOS based camera. Either cheaper Sapphire (Ximea USB3, IDS Imaging USB2... PGR Blackfly GigE) or more expensive and newer Ruby line sensor. There are also very big sensors (1" CMV4000) but they cost much more. There are also good Sony CCDs like ICX445 - but those are smaller and bit slower.

You can find more on:
http://airylab.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93&am...
or http://astrochonum.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1...

And on my blog.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5526604 - 11/18/12 06:42 PM

Thats all well and good Piotr but how much do those cost in US dollars?

I have used the QHY 5 with good success and no newton rings.

Edited by sullij1 (11/18/12 06:47 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Trevor Durity
super member


Reged: 12/01/05

Loc: Galway, Ireland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5526747 - 11/18/12 08:03 PM

I've been eyeing this one up as well. Opticstar keep trying to temp me in with their offer emails. ;-)

The sensor held me back in this case as there was no wealth of sample shots out there. Can't wait to see Stephen's review.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Trevor Durity]
      #5526797 - 11/18/12 08:38 PM

The Blackfly is an e2v that's posted at a price of $395, but I don't think any have actually been sold yet. Point Grey site says the 1.2MP availability is Q4 2012, but they're rapidly running out of 2012.

They also have the currently available e2v Flea3 USB 3.0 claiming 60FPS and a global shutter. I've been eyeing that one pretty closely. Even moreso now that I can't get the stupid DMK51 to run full speed on my new laptop.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5526840 - 11/18/12 08:59 PM

Tony,

Thanks, good to know. Let us know if you see a release date.Good luck with the 51. In my experience with the 51 it is an awesome solar machine.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5526863 - 11/18/12 09:10 PM

I have no problem with the 51 itself, other than the fact that the driver doesn't seem to get along with USB 3.0 ports and the manufacture seems very disinterested in fixing it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
*skyguy*
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: Western New York
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5526986 - 11/18/12 10:39 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

Quote:

1. Do not use a Micron CMOS for solar imaging. Either rolling shutter or usually strong Newton rings will kill the imaging.





I have the Micron 1280x1024 chip in my SSAG and I use it for solar imaging when it's setup as a QHY5. I've been very happy with its performance ... see image:


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: *skyguy*]
      #5527253 - 11/19/12 01:47 AM

Quote:

I have the Micron 1280x1024 chip in my SSAG and I use it for solar imaging when it's setup as a QHY5. I've been very happy with its performance ... see image:




The Newton rings show up quite randomly. One sensor will give them, another will not. That's the risk with getting a Micron based camera.

Here is one example (no tilting or rotating will help):



At the moment best thing would be PGR Chameleon from ebay.

e2v based cameras sell in Europe - quite cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
WahHK
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/24/06

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5527293 - 11/19/12 03:28 AM

These Newton rings should be from the optical window of the sensor.
If there is no anti-reflection coating there, the rings should be obvious.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: WahHK]
      #5527712 - 11/19/12 11:10 AM

Piotr,

You said,

cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).
The PGR's are good cams no doubt but it is a 1/3 inch chip compared to the QHY 1/2 inch and the DMK 51's 1 / 1.8 chip. These are big size differences.
You won't get full disks on larger scopes with that 1/3 inch chip.
So shure there will be price differences. All 3 of these cams have about the same frame rate. And all 3 "ARE" delivering good results on solar objects.

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5527812 - 11/19/12 12:04 PM

Quote:

Piotr,

You said,

cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).
The PGR's are good cams no doubt but it is a 1/3 inch chip compared to the QHY 1/2 inch and the DMK 51's 1 / 1.8 chip. These are big size differences.
You won't get full disks on larger scopes with that 1/3 inch chip.
So shure there will be price differences. All 3 of these cams have about the same frame rate. And all 3 "ARE" delivering good results on solar objects.

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.




The PGR Blackfly is a 1/1.8 sized e2v sensor for an advertised $395 and claimed 60fps over GigE. How much cheaper do you want?

The Flea3 is the same chip with a USB 3.0 interface. It's quite a bit more expensive than the Blackfly, but still beats out the DMK51 by a couple hundred bucks and is 45fps faster.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5528114 - 11/19/12 02:47 PM

Is the Blackfly for sale at the Point Grey web store yet? I wasn't able to find it there. For me, it's vaporware until it's there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ValeryD
Vendor (Aries)
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Kherson, Ukraine.
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5528138 - 11/19/12 03:02 PM

Quote:



e2v based cameras sell in Europe - quite cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).




Piotr,

Can you, please, give us a link(s) to such places where these camera are in shops?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5528142 - 11/19/12 03:04 PM

Quote:

Is the Blackfly for sale at the Point Grey web store yet? I wasn't able to find it there. For me, it's vaporware until it's there.




Still says Q4 2012. However, since they do have one camera using the same chip (the Flea 3) already for sale, I tend to not doubt that the Blackfly will be released. At that price, well...

All you have to do is look to find it on the PGR site.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5528180 - 11/19/12 03:22 PM

Quote:

Is the Blackfly for sale at the Point Grey web store yet? I wasn't able to find it there. For me, it's vaporware until it's there.




Agreed, "Vaporware"!

I will be happy to buy one at that price point "when and if one ever appears"!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5528289 - 11/19/12 04:03 PM

You can get e2v based camera from:

1. IDS Imaging - http://www.ids-imaging.com and review
2. Ximea xiQ - http://www.ximea.com/usb3-vision-camera - and review

For IDS Imaging - check if there is a local dealer for your country. If not then pick one favorable to you or contact them directly (Optosoft is in Poland for example). They offer USB2/3 and probably GigE too with those sensors. I don't know how the prices look now, but the USB2 prices were falling down. They also offer Ruby line sensors, but at much higher prices. http://www.airylab.com did some testing too. Cameras supported by FireCapture and non-free (but HDD write-efficient) Genika.

Ximea xiQ is quite new, ~330 EUR for the USB3 set. Supported by SharpCap in initial stage (worked for me).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5529699 - 11/20/12 09:50 AM

Looking at these cameras, it looks like there's an optical window in front of the sensor. Is there an IR cut filter in there??

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5529968 - 11/20/12 11:58 AM

Clear glass (unless you order IR-cutted version - which you shouldn't).

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5529976 - 11/20/12 12:04 PM

That's what worries me. I think I'm going to get the e2v Flea3, but there is nothing in the specs that mention IR cut or no.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5530168 - 11/20/12 01:25 PM

Point Grey doesn't rather put IR-cuts with mono cams (didn't seen that). And those windows can be easily removed if needed.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5531245 - 11/20/12 10:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Piotr,

You said,

cheap when compared to other cameras (cheaper than big DMK).
The PGR's are good cams no doubt but it is a 1/3 inch chip compared to the QHY 1/2 inch and the DMK 51's 1 / 1.8 chip. These are big size differences.
You won't get full disks on larger scopes with that 1/3 inch chip.
So shure there will be price differences. All 3 of these cams have about the same frame rate. And all 3 "ARE" delivering good results on solar objects.

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.




The PGR Blackfly is a 1/1.8 sized e2v sensor for an advertised $395 and claimed 60fps over GigE. How much cheaper do you want?

The Flea3 is the same chip with a USB 3.0 interface. It's quite a bit more expensive than the Blackfly, but still beats out the DMK51 by a couple hundred bucks and is 45fps faster.




After reading all the data the blackfly looks interesting. However, are these cameras currently functioning off Ethernet hub or are we also buying the powered hub for them requiring another power source? How much does the powered hub cost?
This white paper suggests a powered hub is necessary and that laptops require a switch. So now we add the cost of these onto our purchase?
http://www.1stvision.com/elearning/GigECameras_Myths_Facts.pdf

Where are we coming in price wise after all that?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5531261 - 11/20/12 11:03 PM

You mean as far as powering it over ethernet? You need to have a power injector. But, I'm not sure what the cost is.

I'm looking closer at the Flea3 for the higher speed of USB 3.0 and the simplicty of just having one cable.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5531456 - 11/21/12 02:00 AM

Google for Ethernet power injector. Those are quite cheap boxes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5532174 - 11/21/12 12:33 PM

So the answer is yes, you need a seperate 12 volt or 120 Volt converter to the power injector. They seem to run from 25 dollars to 120 dollars.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: sullij1]
      #5532700 - 11/21/12 05:28 PM

Quote:

We all want a big 1/1.8 chip delivering 80 fps with the highest res, unfortunately it is not in the budget for many of us.




Not necessarily Joe, some solar telescopes that have sweet spot issues perform alot better from an imaging point of view when used with a camera with a smaller chip...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom and Beth
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5532779 - 11/21/12 06:29 PM

Quote:

I have no problem with the 51 itself, other than the fact that the driver doesn't seem to get along with USB 3.0 ports and the manufacture seems very disinterested in fixing it.




Do you have any info on the Gig Ethernet version of the DMK51, DMK 23G274?

This seems rather intersting to me....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
sullij1
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5532833 - 11/21/12 07:14 PM

Thanks Mark, point taken. But it would still be cool to have a big chip like that in the cam arsenal. I am certian I could find a use for it.

Edited by sullij1 (11/21/12 07:18 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PiotrM
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: Poland
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5533288 - 11/22/12 01:56 AM

Quote:

Do you have any info on the Gig Ethernet version of the DMK51, DMK 23G274?

This seems rather intersting to me....




A friend of mine is using the version with ICX445 for solar imaging. It works with no artifacts only if he isn't recording with max speed. When he lowers the recording speed somewhere to USB2 speed it works nicely (check for example here - Admiral_M user).

Faster/newer chip is required if you want something better/faster than the DMK51.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: PiotrM]
      #5544383 - 11/28/12 06:50 PM

I decided to dig out this cam and have a play around with it again. What I really don't like is the control software that is bundled with it - reallllly basic... Does anybody know of any third party software, ideally free/shareware that will run it?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
drksky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/01/09

Loc: Bloomington, IL
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: marktownley]
      #5545476 - 11/29/12 12:43 PM

You can try FireCapture, which has support for a pretty wide array of cameras.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gary BEAL
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/03

Loc: New Zealand
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: drksky]
      #5545576 - 11/29/12 01:44 PM

FireCapture all the way Mark. When I had a DMK, IC Capture was the default. But with the Flea2 I got annoyed with the file size limit with the PGR software, so bailed and went to FireCapture, haven't looked back.
Gary


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5545670 - 11/29/12 02:57 PM

I can only get it to run in 640x480 in firecapture for whatever reason

Just to top it off the bundled software with the cam keeps crashing my windows 7 lappy... :/


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
TorstenEdelmann
sage


Reged: 09/29/04

Loc: Landsberg, Germany
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: marktownley]
      #5546531 - 11/30/12 12:43 AM

Mark,
Quote:

I can only get it to run in 640x480 in firecapture for whatever reason



Hitting the "uninstall" button or contacting the author are the two options in that case
Torsten


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
marktownley
Postmaster


Reged: 08/19/08

Loc: West Midlands, UK
Re: New CCD Camera For Solar Imaging? new [Re: TorstenEdelmann]
      #5548320 - 12/01/12 05:54 AM

Hi Torsten.

I was being a bit slow when I read your post - I thought your name looked familiar :P

I have unistalled v2.1 and re-installed the v2.2 beta, the good news is it does not crash my laptop (as does the opticstar bundled software) - however I have to run it in webcam mode when I select the camera type when I start up firecapture, and this only gives me 640x480 resolution - any suggestions Torsten? or is it just not fully compatible at this stage?

Thanks,

Mark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
1 registered and 7 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Phillip Creed, nitegeezer 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 5013

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics