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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
CGEM problems....
      #4050737 - 09/15/10 09:46 PM

So my mount won't move in RA, it moves in DEC.

If I turn the mount on and off really quick and press right it will move in DEC when it should be in RA.

If I press left nothing happens. If I leave it the scope will spin around in a complete circle. If I press up or down the movement will stop. When I press left and right the number still appears on the control showing the speed but nothing happens.

I've tried switching power cables, switching power supplies, unplugging and plugging them in, unplugging and plugging in hand controller.. Tightening and losing the clutches also doesn't work. I last used the scope 2 nights ago and it ran from 5pm viewing venus in the day to imaging Orion Nebula at 6am during twlight.

Anything else I can try? I really really don't want to send this back. I just got a new hand controller from celestron and it was hell waiting for the new one.

I'm going to forward this to celeston but I figure I'll get replies here first.

thanks


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ScottS
sage


Reged: 04/01/05

Loc: Central Ohio
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4050804 - 09/15/10 10:21 PM

Did you reverse the cables by chance? The 2 cables that hook from the pier to the mount and the motors? Try flipping them around at the pier and see what happens.

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: ScottS]
      #4050813 - 09/15/10 10:26 PM

I'm not sure what cables you mean. From the last time I used it I've only removed the counterweights. Scope is stored in my shed. I've actually only completely taken apart the mount once which was recently but I have used it several times since then.

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ScottS
sage


Reged: 04/01/05

Loc: Central Ohio
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4050896 - 09/15/10 10:51 PM

My bad... I was thinking the old style mounts that had the 2 RG45 cables. Sorry I didn't know your were talking about the newer style.

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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: ScottS]
      #4050913 - 09/15/10 10:58 PM

start with a reset to factory defaults of the handcontroller. it cures many strange behaviors. Check for bent pins on cable and sockets also.

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: Stew57]
      #4050944 - 09/15/10 11:10 PM

reset to factory defaults done. Checking over all connections but I have unplugged and plugged everything back in..

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4050967 - 09/15/10 11:19 PM

No luck. I emailed celestron and also asked if I can open the mount without voiding my warranty. If they say no I guess I'll have no choice but to send it back. Probably going to cost me $200 or so...

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Fred1
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/19/07

Loc: Somewhere in the Orion Spur
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4051071 - 09/16/10 12:13 AM

My CGEM's RA motor died in June. Celestron repaired it under warranty. Got it back early August. Has been working fine. Be sure to ask "C" if they can send you a shipping label.

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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4051507 - 09/16/10 09:03 AM

If you are sure about the power connection (try spreading the pins on the mount side), and are working with fully charged batteries (not an AC adapter), the mount _probably_ needs to go back to Celestron.

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dkb
sage


Reged: 07/23/08

Loc: Minnesota
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: rmollise]
      #4051901 - 09/16/10 12:12 PM

If you haven't ruled out a problem with the hand controller you may try removing the 6 small screws on the back of the controller and checking if there is any moisture on the keyboard pad underneath the PCB board. The PCB board simply has metal pads where the keys hit to make an electrical contact.

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skybsd
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/01/08

Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4053575 - 09/17/10 02:43 AM

Hello,
How old is the mount? Is it still under warranty?

If your mount is still under warranty, you really should work with your Celestron reseller - that's what they're there for, after all.

If the mount is not under warranty, then I'd not mess about - return it to Celestron Customer Support, hope they resolve the issue for you.

Regards,

skybsd


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Nebulakanezer
journeyman


Reged: 11/18/09

Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: skybsd]
      #4053770 - 09/17/10 08:31 AM

Same thing happened to mine and many others. Only fix is back to Celestron or dealer replacement. Sorry.

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bdawg6381
sage
*****

Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: Blacksburg, VA
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: Nebulakanezer]
      #4053797 - 09/17/10 08:51 AM

I'll second Neb's response. No fix for this one but a return. I had the same problem with my first CGEM I purchased. Luckily the place I bought it from shipped me a new head the same day a long with a UPS pickup ticket. They waited until I verified the new one they sent worked and then had UPS pick up the old head at no cost to me. You might want to check out if you can work the same deal... if they are a reputable company they will probably do the same for you. Good Luck! (p.s. the problem is actually with the encoders inside the mount... it cant get a fix where it is so it just spins in that axis)

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: bdawg6381]
      #4060920 - 09/20/10 01:52 PM

So I never heard back from Celestron despite sending 2 emails. I was just about to call them, but I went to check the mount and guess what? It's working again. Now something is obviously wrong, but at least I can observe Jupiter tonight.

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4060963 - 09/20/10 02:04 PM

Tried it again, still working fine. Slew speeds seem fine. I'm going to setup and check out Venus and get ready for Jupiter.

I still have more then a year on my warranty so I don't have to rush to send it back if it's usable. At least if it makes it a few more months I can send it back in the dead of winter. Since the motor isn't the problem what do you guys think the problem is? Lose connection?


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jbattleson
Happily Retired
*****

Reged: 03/02/09

Loc: Nebraska
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4061092 - 09/20/10 02:49 PM

Was there a fair amount of temperature change between when it didn't work and then started working?
If so may be a bad solder connection or component.


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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: jbattleson]
      #4061708 - 09/20/10 06:48 PM

So I imaged Venus
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_OxZoGqFQrPI/TJfenJ8yiUI/AAAAAAAAFjU/zoKNB_ZejT8/s800/vee2.jpg

tracked it for over an hour tried several slew speeds everything was working fine. The 12v battery died. As I haven't charged it thinking I wasn't going to be using it. I switched to my other battery which reads 100% and again it won't move in RA

What a tease, was getting all setup for Jupiter tonight and now it looks like it will have to go back now afterall.


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BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/25/09

Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4061934 - 09/20/10 08:49 PM

One thing I did last winter with a similar problem, getting error code 16 or 17, was to remove the access plate and reseat the motor control cables that attach to the PCB. Worth a try. Just be careful, removing the screws, since you can strip the heads easily if you use the wrong size screwdriver. I haven't had a problem since reseating those two connectors.
Good luck.


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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: BlueGrass]
      #4061936 - 09/20/10 08:51 PM

Quote:

One thing I did last winter with a similar problem, getting error code 16 or 17, was to remove the access plate and reseat the motor control cables that attach to the PCB. Worth a try. Just be careful, removing the screws, since you can strip the heads easily if you use the wrong size screwdriver. I haven't had a problem since reseating those two connectors.
Good luck.




Are you 100% sure opening the mount will not void my warranty?


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jbattleson
Happily Retired
*****

Reged: 03/02/09

Loc: Nebraska
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4062074 - 09/20/10 10:04 PM

I'm 100% sure it would void the warranty if Celestron can tell that you opened it.

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dkb
sage


Reged: 07/23/08

Loc: Minnesota
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: jbattleson]
      #4062101 - 09/20/10 10:17 PM

I've opened up the panel and I don't see how they could tell if you opened it. There is no kind of sealant. You also do not need to remove all 8 screws, just the 4 in the corners. The central 4 hold the PCB to the cover. The connectors will be on the back of the PCB which you can easily get to when you take the 4 screws out from the corners.

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BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/25/09

Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: dkb]
      #4062153 - 09/20/10 10:39 PM

Opening the panel and voiding the warranty has been discussed before. There is a backup battery in the mount that may have to be replaced. The only way to do this is to open the panel. There are a number of owners that have opened the panel. I don't know if this technically voids the warranty or not but ... I do know that if my battery needed to be replaced, I would not ship it to Celestron to have it replaced. In the final analysis, it's your decision. I'm not recommending that you do this if you're at all uncomfortable doing so .. many owners would rather ship it off just to be on the safe side. I'm only reporting what I did. I've also shipped my mount off and had it reworked by Deep Space Products for hyper tuning. I'm fairly confident this voided my warranty, but this was basically a complete tear down and upgrade. Good luck and I hope you get the problem resolved.

- and as DKB says, if you do decide to open the panel, only the 4 corner screws need to be removed. There are pictures posted on the Yahoo CGEM forum of this procedure and the insides of the mount. I'd check them out first and check the forum there for additional advice from other owners who may have had your same problem... here's the groups URL: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CelestronCGEM/

Edited by BlueGrass (09/20/10 10:52 PM)


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nemo129
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: WMass
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: BlueGrass]
      #4062886 - 09/21/10 08:59 AM

Quote:

One thing I did last winter with a similar problem, getting error code 16 or 17, was to remove the access plate and reseat the motor control cables that attach to the PCB. Worth a try. Just be careful, removing the screws, since you can strip the heads easily if you use the wrong size screwdriver. I haven't had a problem since reseating those two connectors.
Good luck.




My "error code 16 or 17" problems went away as soon as Celestron replaced my defective HC. There is a known issue of many of them having a bad crimp at the end that plugs into the mount. I was lucky that I have a CG-5 mount with the same hand controller, so I was able to diagnose the issue and talk Celestron out of having to send my whole mount back to the mothership. If the OP does not have the option of trying/borrowing another HC, he could use the NexRemote software on a PC to see if the issue persists. That would at least eliminate the possibility of the HC being bad. I have also read threads where the solution George offered has worked, as I am sure the guy in the factory installing the controller boards is going as fast as he can and maybe a few do not get seated properley and make intermittent contact governed by ambient temperature swings. I admit I would be leary of self-servicing an under warranty mount myself.


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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: nemo129]
      #4063243 - 09/21/10 11:49 AM

My hand controller has already been replaced.

So this morning I tried adjusting the pin on the mount for the power cable. I still have not tried opening. Still didn't work. I unplugged and plugged the power cable a couple of times (2-3 max) and it works again!

Now since it was working I tried to eliminate some things. I unplugged the hand controller and plugged it into aux. Still works. So I don't think it the hand controller port. Even when the mount wont move in RA the numbers still appear on the screen when you press left / right.


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nemo129
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: WMass
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4063286 - 09/21/10 12:03 PM

I apologize if you already answered the question about how old the mount is...but dealing with a reseller can be less painful than dealing directly with Celestron. To be sure Celestron will probably fix it..it just seems to take them longer. If you cannot deal with a reseller, I would call Celestron and not depend upon emails, as they seem to respond much more quickly when dealing with you on the phone. It sounds like you have tried multiple power sources based upon the comments you made about batteries, so you can eliminate that. It could be as simple as a loose connection on the controller board that could be fixed by reseating the cables, or it could be a flaky controller board that needs to be replaced. Intermittent problems like this are such a pain to trouble shoot. I know I would be very upset if I was having this issues, so I'm hoping you can get it resolved soon. Good luck!

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: nemo129]
      #4063320 - 09/21/10 12:17 PM

The mount is about 10 months old. I don't think at this stage the dealer would replace. I did not try just because I don't think any store would deal with something this far in when it is covered under manufacturer warranty.

Anyway I think I have maybe found the problem!

Since adjusting the pin, I think I adjusted it too far, after plugging it and unplugging it may have moved it enough to the "sweet spot". I've unplugged and plugged it a few more times and each time its worked.

The real test will be tonight when I take the mount out. If it stops working I'll adjust the pin again, but if this is the problem I'll need to find a way to prevent this from happening. It's too bad celestron does not sell replacement 12v cables for the cgem.


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Peter in Reno
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/15/08

Loc: Reno, NV
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4063408 - 09/21/10 12:51 PM

I would remove the panel where the power pin is and inspect the soldering/connection there. If it's obvious, then the repair should be simple. It should not void the warranty as long as there is no "warranty void" sticker.

Peter


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BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/25/09

Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #4063601 - 09/21/10 01:59 PM



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nemo129
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/03/10

Loc: WMass
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4063618 - 09/21/10 02:04 PM

Well, that is certainly good news. I hope your field testing tonight goes well!

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corpusse
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/11/10

Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: nemo129]
      #4064563 - 09/21/10 09:28 PM

100% sure it's the pin / power connection. Stopped working again after I pushed it around then again adjusted the space and it works.

So I know how to temporary fix it. I just need to fix it for good...


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Asimov
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/11/10

Re: CGEM problems.... new [Re: corpusse]
      #4064992 - 09/22/10 02:51 AM

I wish all these mount problems were that simple to fix! Glad you got it sorted, or diagnosed at least.

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