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Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all) E_Look Post Laureate Reged: 03/06/08 Loc: near New York Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: Tonk]       #4159040 - 11/02/10 04:57 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   ages0ne, don't feel bad. Everyone, even the guys who responded here have made their share of mistakes. If we compile them into a movie, it might be a hit comedy. But they are honestly trying to explain what you saw. The main thing is that a comet or meteoroid headed to Jupiter wouldn't look the way you describe it. Many people have seen or photographed reflections and ghosted images; it happens a lot. Also, while Jupiter does have a ring system, there is no way any telescope from Earth can allow us to see it. But keep observing. Maybe you might want to upgrade your eyepieces, slowly. Post back about your observations; I think many would be interested in reading what you see. And if you are posting here honestly, no worries! Post Extras:       lunar Carpal Tunnel Reged: 07/03/10 Loc: NY, United Sates Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: Tonk]       #4159067 - 11/02/10 05:07 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Wow - I can't believe this converstion went this long. I was observing Jupiter with my 10" last night and definately didn't see anything next to Jupiter besides its moons, and definantely not any comet. As for the "ring" , that's pretty wierd. Then again, if this is a Galileo telescope we're talking about, I wonder what galileo really saw? Did he see the same thing? Post Extras:       EJN Pooh-Bah Reged: 11/01/05 Loc: Highway 61 Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter *DELETED* [Re: lunar]       #4159097 - 11/02/10 05:19 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Post deleted - This is a waste of time. Post Extras:       ages0ne member Reged: 10/29/10 Loc: CO, USA Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: EJN]       #4159273 - 11/02/10 06:30 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Again, thanks for your replies, fellas! but I really don't know what to say. it seems unlikely (to me) that floaters would be present, each of the 6 nights. And I think a mistake I am making is pointing everyone towards Jupiter, and yes... even I dont see anything when looking at Jupiter. I need people to understand that what I'm asking of them is to view an object between Earth, and Jupiter, so the gas giant will most likely be out of focus. I know what I am seeing, and my certainty has only grown over the past 2 nights. Every night prior, I was doubting myself but through out the night(s) I would come across better views of this thing ::shrugs:: again, I am sorry for posting and wasting everyone's time. But I held off, for 3-4 days before becoming 'so certain'. Either way, thanks again for everyone's help. I'll keep looking up as this won't shake my faith Post Extras:       EJN Pooh-Bah Reged: 11/01/05 Loc: Highway 61 Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4159325 - 11/02/10 06:50 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: I need people to understand that what I'm asking of them is to view an object between Earth, and Jupiter, so the gas giant will most likely be out of focus. What you need to understand is that any object from about a mile away to a billion + light-years is at optical infinity and will have the same focus in a telescope. Try this: focus on the moon, then move the scope to Jupiter. It will also be in focus. The moon is ~240000 miles away, and Jupiter is ~400000000 miles away. They are both at optical infinity. If you are defocusing Jupiter, then most likely you are seeing crud on your eyepiece. No eyepiece is truly clean after more than about 10 seconds of use, and it is difficult to clean an eyepiece *truly pristine* without clean-room conditions. Post Extras:       ages0ne member Reged: 10/29/10 Loc: CO, USA Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: EJN]       #4159409 - 11/02/10 07:28 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   calm down, I was merely looking for others who are seeing this. YES all your explanations are rational, and I accept the possibility that I am wrong, but how does dirt move away from me, towards Jupiter? If no one want's to believe me. fine! I understand, most people are of the motto... seeing is believing. I'm not one of them. But please let me apologize for creating pressure in your head that makes it want to explode. Post Extras:       ages0ne member Reged: 10/29/10 Loc: CO, USA Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4159580 - 11/02/10 08:57 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: If that's Oval BA, what was the dark dot to the east of the GRS a couple of nights ago?? posted by E_Look I pulled this post from the Double Shadow Transit Jupiter Sketch 10/31/10 thread, and I am pretty sure this 'dark dot' is what I am trying to refer everyone to, as I was also viewing this thing / dark dot to the left of the GRS in my scope. there are a couple thread's where people mention seeing 'something' (& this is really why I began posting) but my suggestion(s) have all been pretty much shot down. Is this due to my certainty, being new to astronomy & the forums, because my telescope is inexpensive... why? either way... i can't wait fer 8:00 to roll around --wonderer Post Extras:       rookie Good Night Nurse Reged: 01/14/06 Loc: St. Petersburg, FL Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4159651 - 11/02/10 09:25 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   agesOne, Many people that participate on this forum have years of expereince and really good equipment. It takes courage to post a question. Stay excited about what you see and keep looking up. It's all a learning experience. The sky is a beautiful place to behold. Post Extras:       Tim L Carpal Tunnel Reged: 12/17/08 Loc: Missouri Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4159655 - 11/02/10 09:28 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: there are a couple thread's where people mention seeing 'something' (& this is really why I began posting) but my suggestion(s) have all been pretty much shot down. Is this due to my certainty, being new to astronomy & the forums, because my telescope is inexpensive... why? either way... i can't wait fer 8:00 to roll around --wonderer Hi agesOne, I certainly join with the others in encouraging you to keep looking up and enjoying the night sky. There are so many fascinating things to see up there. However, at least part of the reason people are resistant to your explanations has to do with claiming to see what can't physically be seen through the scope. If you're seeing a ring of some sort going from pole to pole, it is not an actual ring around the planet, but something else. And as was mentioned above, the focus is the same for our moon or Jupiter. It isn't possible to change focus to look at something located in between the two. Whatever you are seeing when you defocus must be somewhere else. So, if nothing else, you have an interesting puzzle to work out. Many ideas have been suggested here, and I'm sure you'll track down the solution. When you do, you'll have gained in experience, and will be able to pass that experience along to others. In the meantime, keep enjoying the views of Jupiter! Clear skies, Post Extras:       EJN Pooh-Bah Reged: 11/01/05 Loc: Highway 61 Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: ages0ne]       #4159720 - 11/02/10 10:00 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Post deleted by Shadowalker Post Extras:       7331Peg Sirius Observer Reged: 09/01/08 Loc: North coast of Oregon Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter *DELETED* [Re: EJN]       #4159855 - 11/02/10 11:14 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Post deleted by Shadowalker Post Extras:       ages0ne member Reged: 10/29/10 Loc: CO, USA Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: 7331Peg]       #4159951 - 11/03/10 12:15 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   -.- ok.... I can admit defeat and I have to thank you guys for setting me straight. The line... err, ring I see is definitely due to my equipment and you'll have to forgive my stubbornness in that matter. You gotta understand this 'ring' is how I was orienting this thing I kept seeing. The reason I stayed looking mostly into my viewfinder (no lens or mag.) was because this line is almost always in view, and when I add lenses or magnification it blurs and i have to focus in and out to find it again. BUT my stubbornness still wont lets go of this thing approaching Jupiter. I no longer see it my "binocular setting" so I believe it's much closer to the planet now. Tonight, I caught two groups, with the one on the left being much harder to see.... sorta. This one is much fainter than the one on the right, but in order to see this one (right) i have to let Jupiter pan all the way to the right, and I only get to see it for a brief moment before Jupiter is out of my viewfinder. Again, I see rocks 'shooting through' my viewfinder, they are 'in focus... hardly, and quickly fade into the immensity of Jupiter. but in order to see this I have to first locate either object, and center it in my viewfinder. also keep in mind i think my 'prism' flips things, so my location descriptions may be backwards. left is right and right is left sorry. Thanks for all the reply's though, and if this topic needs to be locked, sobeit --wrong Edited by ages0ne (11/03/10 12:17 AM) Post Extras:       Tim L Carpal Tunnel Reged: 12/17/08 Loc: Missouri Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4160019 - 11/03/10 01:20 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi agesOne, Just for the sake of discussion,... How are you able to tell the objects you see are moving from Earth to Jupiter, and not from Jupiter to Earth? It would seem that at that distance (near Jupiter, as you say) there would be no change in relative size from day to day. Secondly, and I'm no expert here, but it seems to me that since we're rotating around the Sun about 1 degree each day, that the debris you see wouldn't stay line-of-sight to Jupiter over several nights. I can't quite get my head around how both planets could be in motion and yet have some rocks moving precisely in line like a bullet between the two. These also to me, in addition to the optical information in above posts, suggest the real answer is somewhere closer to home. To anyone: I wasn't active in astronomy when Shoemaker-Levy hit. What was the trajectory of that impact? Was the comet visible in any small scopes? Was it ever lined up line-of-sight with Jupiter? Or did it strike from an oblique angle (left or right from our point of view)? Maybe someone with experience of that prior impact could help explain how it appeared before hitting. People knew it was coming...how did they figure out the trajectories? It might help agesOne eliminate the comet theory as a probable explanation. Clear skies to you, Post Extras:       ages0ne member Reged: 10/29/10 Loc: CO, USA Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: Tim L]       #4160024 - 11/03/10 01:29 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thank You, and a buddy of mine asked the same thing... what if these objects are headed towards Earth instead? lemme do another photoshop and get back to ya... Post Extras:       ages0ne member Reged: 10/29/10 Loc: CO, USA Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4160049 - 11/03/10 01:59 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Please keep in mind that the much bigger chunks, hardly stay in a clean silhouette like above, and I have to fight tooth and nail, getting these objects 'centered' enough before I can began seeing the above image. Also, from day one (26th), this was not a 'bullet shot' from Earth. However, i did indeed witness it being sucked into the gravitational pull, and for a good 3-4 days, it more or less spiraled towards Jupiter in a counterclockwise spin. Plus, if you look at my rendering from the first day (ignore the "ring" though) you'll see how stretched out it appears, and has consistently gotten much smaller as it gets closer and closer. --stoked Post Extras:       ThreeD scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 12/23/08 Loc: Sacramento suburbs Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4160091 - 11/03/10 02:59 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: that's just it. I suggest moving your head because these 'objects' don't move but rather 'stay' in place as one changes their perspective of Jupiter... Jupiter / ring appears moving in background, while the objects 'stay' in place. The "objects" are "in" your telescope. They are called dust or perhaps fuzz bunnies if the "objects" are large enough. That explains why they stay relatively in place and you see them in perspective with respect to Jupiter. Quote: I pulled this post from the Double Shadow Transit Jupiter Sketch 10/31/10 thread, and I am pretty sure this 'dark dot' is what I am trying to refer everyone to, as I was also viewing this thing / dark dot to the left of the GRS in my scope. there are a couple thread's where people mention seeing 'something' (& this is really why I began posting) but my suggestion(s) have all been pretty much shot down. Those sketches are of two of Jupiter's moons casting a shadow on its surface. It's an event called a "transit" and if you would read the post that contained the sketch you would learn that. It happens periodically and the occurrences can be predicted with astounding accuracy and precision. At this point I question why I'm even responding. Mostly I think it is because these two points had not been addressed that I saw in my quick scan of the thread. Perhaps it is because I hold out some glimmer of hope that you really are just new and trying to learn. If you are, then good for you -- if not then I'm sorry to break to the news to you that prop 19 didn't pass but the good news is that you can still use your prescription... Post Extras:       Nemrod sage Reged: 09/01/07 Loc: Kansas Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4160303 - 11/03/10 09:19 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: Please keep in mind that the much bigger chunks, hardly stay in a clean silhouette like above, and I have to fight tooth and nail, getting these objects 'centered' enough before I can began seeing the above image. Also, from day one (26th), this was not a 'bullet shot' from Earth. However, i did indeed witness it being sucked into the gravitational pull, and for a good 3-4 days, it more or less spiraled towards Jupiter in a counterclockwise spin. Plus, if you look at my rendering from the first day (ignore the "ring" though) you'll see how stretched out it appears, and has consistently gotten much smaller as it gets closer and closer. --stoked This is ridiculous. You need another telescope. If you were a scientist you would understand double checking your observations with other equipment and other observers rather than ranting about what are optical artifacts, "floaters" and dust and other optical impurities in your cheapo-teletoy. There is plenty to see with a 60mm but that would not include rocks flying at Jupiter. This from a hardcore 60mm guy. JR Post Extras:       Tonk Postmaster Reged: 08/19/04 Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter *DELETED* [Re: Nemrod]       #4160404 - 11/03/10 10:11 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Post deleted by Shadowalker Post Extras:       Tim L Carpal Tunnel Reged: 12/17/08 Loc: Missouri Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4160414 - 11/03/10 10:17 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: Please keep in mind that the much bigger chunks, hardly stay in a clean silhouette like above, and I have to fight tooth and nail, getting these objects 'centered' enough before I can began seeing the above image. Also, from day one (26th), this was not a 'bullet shot' from Earth. However, i did indeed witness it being sucked into the gravitational pull, and for a good 3-4 days, it more or less spiraled towards Jupiter in a counterclockwise spin. Plus, if you look at my rendering from the first day (ignore the "ring" though) you'll see how stretched out it appears, and has consistently gotten much smaller as it gets closer and closer. --stoked agesOne, Thanks for the image. If I understand right, your answer to "how do you know they're headed toward Jupiter rather than away?" is because in the photoshop, all the "rocks" appear to be streaking to a converging point on the planet, with the telescope appearing to be at a viewing point looking right down the stream. Correct? Your drawing is really cool-looking (and you may have a future in astro-art), but those radial lines coming from the "rocks" are from optical defects in the scope. It's dramatic, and looks just like something from a movie; but like a movie, it's an illusion. Sorry. Try this: with an eyepiece in place, find the rocks and then rotate the EP. Look for movement in the rocks, while the planet remains steady. Remember, we're not just looking for surface particles on a lens, but internal particles that might not be readily visible to the eye. Next, try rotating your prism diagonal. Or has been suggested, swap it out with a 90-deg. diagonal. Try to isolate each lens in the system and rotate it. If there's a way to rotate the whole scope (maybe set the tripod up at an angle?) but keep the diagonal still pointed the same way relative to your head, try that too. Finally, rotate your head around the EP as well, checking for floaters in the eye. I don't know whether it's in your eye or dust on a lens somewhere. Your picture looks really cool, but that is not how a comet or space rocks would appear. Like I said before, you've got a puzzle ahead of you. Do your best to figure it out. Otherwise you'll be watching those "rocks" a long time waiting for them to hit anything. Maybe find an astro-club in your area and look through some other scopes--that will help give you more experience, and more understanding of what happens in your own optics. Clear skies to you, Post Extras:       tatarjj Carpal Tunnel Reged: 04/20/04 Loc: Austin, TX Re: comet(?) headed for Jupiter [Re: ages0ne]       #4160679 - 11/03/10 12:20 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: I need people to understand that what I'm asking of them is to view an object between Earth, and Jupiter, so the gas giant will most likely be out of focus. No, they won't. Anything past maybe something like 100 yards away from your scope should focus at infinity. Just curious, why are you so stubbornly insisting on such an unlikely conclusion that this small telescope you have with inferior optics and your eyes are the ONLY ones out of the WHOLE WORLD to see these objects? It is VERY CLEAR you have floaters in your eyes. These are little chunks of organic matter floating around in the fluid in your eyes. As they drift around, they block the light sensing cells in your retina and look like objects. FURTHERMORE, I've heard they are more visible at high power becuase of the smaller exit pupil. Additionally, as the floaters drift around, it will appear they are moving. Also, for Jupiter to cause objects to move fast enough for that movement to be seen visually, it would have to have like the mass of the sun. Post Extras:       Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)

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