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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140
      #4193987 - 11/18/10 09:00 AM

Hi,

I'm interested in buying a Takahashi TOA 130, for viewing but also for imaging (I have a Canon EOS 5D Mark II). I hear Takahashis are very well known for their quality (studiness, accuracy etc.). Now yesterday I was reading some stuff on it and people mentioned they'd rather have a TEC 140 which is also good in quality, but seemingly not quite up to Tak standards. That left me debating on if I wanted a Tak or a TEC. What do you think? (I've never really heard a complaint about the TOA 130, except that it's rather heavy!)

I'd appreciate your honest opinion!

Thanks and clear skies

Bart


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4194007 - 11/18/10 09:10 AM

I'll keep it short and sweet...

1. TEC140 has a 10mm advantage. Yes it can be easily seen.
2. TEC140 is oil-spaced. Advantage in cooling down.
3. TEC140 is lighter and subjectively easier to handle.
4. TOA130 will have superior color correction.

Which factors are most important to you?

Qualifiers: I had a TEC140 for three years and compared it directly to an AP130GT for a year. I have never looked through a TOA130. I chose the AP130 for its extreme portability. The TEC was a phenominal performer for visual.

Edited by t.r. (11/18/10 09:16 AM)


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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4194029 - 11/18/10 09:21 AM

The TOA-130 is supposed to have slightly better color correction (in fact as far as I'm concerned there is no refractor out there with better color correction than the TOA series).
Other than that I doupt it if anyone could find any difference by doing a visual side by side test between a TOA-130 and a TEC-140.

Regards
Teo

------------------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-130S
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set + 2X Barlow


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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4194064 - 11/18/10 09:42 AM

Quote:



1. TEC140 has a 10mm advantage. Yes it can be easily seen.





I doupt it!
Dennis Di Cicco did an extensive review of a TEC-140 at Sky@Telescope's December 2003 issue.
At the end of the review he displays a side by side test between a TEC-140 and a TEC-160 on Jupiter and Moon...here is what he says:

" I wasn't expecting there to be a profound difference between the eyepiece views with the two scopes, since the aperture difference was 20mm. BUT I also wasn't expecting the difference to be so subtle that I'd actually have to remind myself which refractor I was looking through (especially since the focusers are identical on both).
When I mentioned that to TEC's president Yuri Petrunin, he didn't seem surprised."The difference", he said will be on deep sky objects...then , pausing for a moment, he added...and on the invoice "

Well I guess that according to Dennis Di Cicco's experience the even smaller 10mm difference between a TOA-130 and a TEC-140...should be even more subtle...maybe practically non existent

Regards
Teo

--------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-13OS
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set + 2X Barlow

Edited by Theodore Mattas (11/18/10 09:53 AM)


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4194075 - 11/18/10 09:50 AM

Recommendations?

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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4194095 - 11/18/10 09:58 AM

Here is a link which will definitely answer your question
http://www.sbig.com/mb/tak/takpics.htm

Regards
Teo

-------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-130S
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set + 2X Barlow


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4194132 - 11/18/10 10:18 AM

Well, I guess that a YEARS worth of SIDE-BY-SIDE comparison can't trump an expert reviewer's ONE night of evaluation! Everyone should also run out and sell their 160mm scopes and downsize to the 130's, your not missin' anything and look at the money you'll save! Good luck with getting them to do that. I'll stand by my observations...10mm's difference CAN be seen at first glance. I never said it was a HUGE diferrence. Don't forget that on a so-so night, even a 90mm and a 150mm can apear to show the same level of detail...check out some of TODD GROSS's reports.
As for recommendations...I'd go with the TEC140 again anytime.

Edited by t.r. (11/18/10 10:21 AM)


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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4194180 - 11/18/10 10:44 AM Attachment (172 downloads)

"If I may also chime in for the Gran Turismo...see here the size difference with the TEC140. Yes,10mm less, but I'am so far having a hard time seeing the loss in typical seeing conditions. The portablity factor goes way up,1/2 foot and 5 lbs less than the TEC. Sweet spot in this size... "



--------------------
Kmart 40mm(first scope @ age 8-Thanks Mom)Jason60mm-Thanks Dad,C80SS-Thanks Wife,PST,C6XLT,AP130 "Gran Turismo" C-11XLT
EQ-2,CG-4,ASGT,DenkII's,TV(zoom,plossls,Ethos,Nag),Pentax XW's,Brandon 50th Anniversary sets, ZAOII 4mm,BaaderZoom and other un-notables


"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring"
Carl Sagan


Well,I'm a bit confused...is this 10mm aperture difference finally CLEAR to be seen...or not?

Edited by Theodore Mattas (11/18/10 10:53 AM)


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4194182 - 11/18/10 10:46 AM

Does anyone else have experience with these scopes. Would be nice to hear some more opinions.
Bart

Edited by Hypnotist (11/18/10 10:47 AM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4194188 - 11/18/10 10:52 AM

I understand that the TOAs (at least the 150s) have been susceptible to misalignment due to jarring. In fact, I think Takahashi made changes to the TOA-150 cell early on to combat this. You're talking big, heavy lens cells with large (glass-insulated) air pockets between them. The difficulty of execution of this design was undertaken for one purpose - color correction for imaging. I suspect the TOAs will be more apt to come out of alignment over time as a result, but who knows.

For visual or a mix of observing that includes a high percentage of visual use, I think the TEC is the better choice. It has greater resolving power, is color corrected specifically for visual use, and has a simpler, lighter lens design that cools quickly. In other words, you'll never see less in a TEC than in a TOA-130, likely won't detect differences in color correction visually, and will be observing at potential sooner in the session.

Regards,

Jim


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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4194235 - 11/18/10 11:16 AM

Someone who downsizes from a TEC140 to an AP130 is not an endorsement for anything but the rarity/desirability/panache of AP and the fact most of us could not afford to own two scopes so close in size.

Someone who downsizes from a TEC140 to a TOA130 is a glutton for punishment or a real overboard extremist when it comes to color correction.

I'd go for the TEC140 in a heartbeat. I'm on my second TEC now, both have been ED scopes.

> a TEC 140 which is also good in quality,
> but seemingly not quite up to Tak standards.

You may safely, completely, disregard that idea. I've owned 3 Taks and 2 TEC's over the years and these days I have a TEC parked in my "garage", not a Tak. I've only owned one scope that had mechanical focuser problems by the way, and it was a new Tak.

The TOA130 color correction is undeniably awesome. Side by side with a TEC140, pointed at a star like Vega or Sirius, you could probably see the difference. No other target is my guess.


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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4194258 - 11/18/10 11:29 AM

Quote:

I understand that the TOAs (at least the 150s) have been susceptible to misalignment due to jarring. In fact, I think Takahashi made changes to the TOA-150 cell early on to combat this. You're talking big, heavy lens cells with large (glass-insulated) air pockets between them. The difficulty of execution of this design was undertaken for one purpose - color correction for imaging. I suspect the TOAs will be more apt to come out of alignment over time as a result, but who knows.





I wonder where did you find information regarding this..."misalignment" issue.
As a member of Yahoo Tak users, and Takahashi community on Facebook...I have never ever heard a TOA-150 user complaining about lens misalignment.
Please provide "evidence" (a link or something), I'm interesting in learning more.

Teo

---------------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-13OS
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set + 2X Barlow


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4194273 - 11/18/10 11:33 AM

I think the misalignment issue may stem from a misunderstanding. I believe the lens cell on all Tak APOs is not user adjustable - no screws are user accessible. This also appears to be the reason that Tak requires their scopes to be shipped by 2nd day air. If the scope arrives decollimated due to shipping handling, it cannot be fixed in the field. Not to say that any given scope will ever become decollimated. And if I still have it wrong, please forgive me. I'm still trying to put it together.

/Ira

Edited by Ira (11/18/10 11:35 AM)


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Mike Clemens]
      #4194277 - 11/18/10 11:36 AM

My my Theodore, you have idle time on your hands...your repost is taken out of context. Nice try though
To "clear" it up for you...Clearly seen on planetary/lunar. Not clearly seen on DeepSkyObjects/brightness. If the difference is WORTH it to YOU or not, I cannot say, but certainly, it is SEEN by my eyes and confirmed by another observers.YMMV FYI, don't take my avatar's pic too seriously as to my eyesight.

Edited by t.r. (11/18/10 11:51 AM)


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Mike Clemens
Frozen to Eyepiece
*****

Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Alaska, USA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4194293 - 11/18/10 11:41 AM

You can shake a TEC140 and might hear the lens knocking around in the cell a bit. This is normal. In the Tak TOA, the cell is a complex arrangement of metal pieces holding glass in critically exact positions and alignment. In the TEC, the cell is just a metal cylinder the lens drops in, but is not held overly tightly in. The lens has a small freedom of movement.

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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: t.r.]
      #4194327 - 11/18/10 11:53 AM

Quote:

My my Theodore, you have idle time on your hands...your repost is taken out of context. Nice try though
To "clear" it up for you...Clearly seen on planetary/lunar. Not clearly seen on DeepSkyObjects/brightness. If the difference is WORTH it to YOU or not, I cannot say, but certainly, it is SEEN by my eyes and confirmed by another observers.YMMV




I have noticed in your signature that you own a Denkmeier bino.
I'm really interested in knowing how a 5" APO performs in planetary viewing with a binoviwer...is the loss of light (?) due to the binoviewer significant?
Other than that are the rumors that the views are 3D...true?

Teo
------------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-130S
Zeiss Abbe Ii ortho set + 2X Barlow

Edited by Theodore Mattas (11/18/10 11:54 AM)


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Hypnotist
sage


Reged: 08/29/10

Loc: San Diego, CA, US
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4194543 - 11/18/10 01:25 PM

Guys, you know I've read a lot of reviews on the TOA 130 and many of them said that this scope is so clear that you might think it has an aperture larger than 5". I've never heard that from TECs. Please tell me what is true.

Bart


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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4194552 - 11/18/10 01:29 PM

The TEC is so clear you might think it has the aperture of a larger scope.




Seriously though I have owned a TOA 130 and if I were to do it over, being a visual observer primarily, I would prefer the TEC 140. If I were a dedicated imager I wouldn't even think twice, the TOA is unbeatable. And if weight is a serious issue the TSA120 weighs half what a TOA130 does and is fully it's equal in color correction and "performing bigger than-ness."


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Theodore Mattas
super member


Reged: 11/12/04

Loc: Thessaloniki, Greece
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Hypnotist]
      #4194563 - 11/18/10 01:34 PM

Quote:

Guys, you know I've read a lot of reviews on the TOA 130 and many of them said that this scope is so clear that you might think it has an aperture larger than 5". I've never heard that from TECs. Please tell me what is true.

Bart




Why do I have a feeling that deep down... you already know which will be your next refractor?

P.S.: Yes the views through the TOA-130 are THAT clear

Teo
------------------------------------------------
Takahashi TOA-130S
Zeiss Abbe II ortho set +2X Barlow


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t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Takahashi TOA 130 vs. TEC 140 new [Re: Theodore Mattas]
      #4194614 - 11/18/10 01:55 PM

[Quote]
I have noticed in your signature that you own a Denkmeier bino.
I'm really interested in knowing how a 5" APO performs in planetary viewing with a binoviwer...is the loss of light (?) due to the binoviewer significant?
Other than that are the rumors that the views are 3D...true?

Teo [Quote]

A 130mm scope and quality binoviewer is a wonderful planetary observing experience. There is light loss, however it is not objectionable with the perceived detail that a binoviewer provides. Incidentally, I prefer to binoview ALL objects even though I am losing light. I won't chase limiting magnitude galaxies with them, but my general outtings are for casual viewing (planetary mostly) anyways. It does give the effect of 3-D that I am hooked on!


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