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Astrophotography and Sketching >> Sketching

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HCR32
sage


Reged: 08/27/10

Loc: Australia
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: dweller25]
      #4222689 - 12/02/10 05:00 AM

who needs ccds. nice work

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planet earth
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/07/10

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #4222759 - 12/02/10 06:44 AM

Very nice sketch Mike.
What's your thoughts on using a Orion Variable polarizing filter #5560 (1 to 40 percent transmission.)
Regards
Sam


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Scotophobia, Maryland, USA
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: planet earth]
      #4223197 - 12/02/10 11:32 AM

Sam,

If you have a polarizing filter, it wouldn't hurt to try it. I've tried many different filters on Jupiter, even ones you'd think wouldn't help. Some filters helped, but many didn't help or made the view worse. I have tried neutral density filters and polarizing filters on Jupiter and other planets and didn't think that they helped. Those filters reduce the apparent brightness of the object, which IME is not needed on Jupiter or planets in general. What we need to do is increase contrast, either for the surface as a whole or for specific features. We don't need to reduce the brightness or "glare."

IMO, if Jupiter appears to be too bright that's because the observer's eyes are not correctly adapted for observing a planet. Don't use a red light when viewing Jupiter. Use a white light, and in fact, it's a good idea to look at a reflection from the white light every ten minutes or so. This will help maintain your photopic ("daylight") vision. You want to avoid letting your eyes slip into mesopic ("twilight") or scotopic ("dark") vision. Photopic vision has the greatest acuity for detail, contrast and color. IMO and IME, if Jupiter looks too bright, the problem is in the observer's eyes, not in the image.

Mike


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cpsTN
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Reged: 04/26/07

Loc: Rutherford Co, TN
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: lunar]
      #4224091 - 12/02/10 06:17 PM

Brandon. I had the 9.5mm Epic from Orion several years ago. Good eyerelief and a big eye lens to view through. Some blackouts, but when you get used to it, its easy to know where to put your eye. I like it for lunar and planetary.

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Scanning4Comets
Markus
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Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT new [Re: cpsTN]
      #4224964 - 12/03/10 04:43 AM

Nice drawing Mike,

I saw almost the same amount of detail last sunday night without anything you listed...mono viewing to boot in my 127mm Mak !!!

I used to use ND and polarizing filters to view planets and it helped reduce irradiation on the planet immensely....with the ND filter, I saw a wealth of detail on Jupiter with festoons, etc.

Next will be binoviewers for me, and I will be picking up another ND or polarising filter for planets again.

Your other drawing HERE shows way more detail...I guess that baader filter would help see more detail...and maybe a few more things you mentioned...I did see lots of detail before but am willing to try new techniques to see more.


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

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Re: SEB is Back! Jupiter 11-29-2010 at 0000 UT [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #4225222 - 12/03/10 09:44 AM

Scanning4Comets,

Quote:

I saw almost the same amount of detail last sunday night without anything you listed...mono viewing to boot in my 127mm Mak !!!





Good job! A binoviewer, M&SG and other filters, apodizing mask (when appropriate), etc. has allowed me to squeeze out those last few subtle details. I notice an obvious improvement in visual acuity when I switch from monoview - even with a great eyepiece like the Vixen LVW - to binoviewing, yes even with the much-maligned Epic ED-2s.

Quote:

I used to use ND and polarizing filters to view planets and it helped reduce irradiation on the planet immensely....with the ND filter, I saw a wealth of detail on Jupiter with festoons, etc.




Of course, you should use whatever works for you, but I've yet to see an improvement on any object when using ND or polarizing filters. If I have room in the equipment box I bring them along, though I virtually never use them. Often it seems that observers either love them or hate them. Well, I don't hate them, I just haven't seen that they do me any good. I might give them another try. But I would advise you to get a Baader M&SG instead, or see if an observing buddy has one that you can borrow.

Quote:

Your other drawing HERE shows way more detail...I guess that baader filter would help see more detail...and maybe a few more things you mentioned...I did see lots of detail before but am willing to try new techniques to see more.





Much of the time when the drawing shows more detail, it's because Jupiter showed more detail! On the other hand, I try not to put anything on a sketch that I don't actually see. My goal is to show as closely as possible what I see in the eyepiece. Sometimes I experiment with turning up the contrast in my software so that some details can be seen more easily by people looking at the sketch. But if I do that too much, the result is that some of the fine details - especially those in the EZ and the resurgent SEB - will be much easier to see when you look at the sketch than they could be seen at the telescope. That's when people will remark that, "Such-and-such feature wasn't really that dark, was it?" No, but if I sketch it as soft and subtle as it was in the eyepiece, you might not see it on the drawing!

In the drawing I posted in the current thread, I toned down the contrast to give a better impression of how these finer details appear when I look in the eyepiece. Actually, I'd rather do this and make the person looking at my sketch struggle a little to tease out the festoons and networking in the EZ and SEB. That gives them a better feel for how these things really appear.

For many of these sketches of Jupiter that experienced observers post on CN, I bet most people would not have seen a lot of the finer detail that's on the sketch if they had looked in the eyepiece themselves. That's just the way it is.

Mike


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