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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
10Micron
      #4397542 - 02/19/11 05:30 PM

Are there people who know something about the 10Micron GM 1000 HPS mount?

Is it already available?

Thanks


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4398601 - 02/20/11 03:40 AM

Are there users who have the 10MICRON GM 2000 QCI?
Is this a good mount for a 6" scope?


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4398612 - 02/20/11 04:29 AM

Maurits,
I have the GM2000 QCI.

I can tell you that it is a superb mount. Certainly the best I have tried, because of it's software so advanced, which receives regular updates with new functions. Mechanically it is superb as well.
A 6" will not even be felt by the GM2000.
Look at what Rolf Geissinger is doing with it and a Planewave 12.5" from a balcony. (www.stern-fan.de)

Can't write much now, but will write more later on why I say it is superb.

E.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398672 - 02/20/11 05:58 AM

I am very keen to buy one of the GM2000 mounts and would love to hear what users have to say about them

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4398696 - 02/20/11 06:43 AM

Hello again.

As I was saying the 10Micron mounts (GM2000QCI/HPS, GM4000, and in a few mounts GM1000HPS) are seriously superb.
I have the version with the Centaurus tripod in Carbon Fiber, which saves some weight.
Mechanically, there not much to say, beside that they are machined to the highest standards.
Software-wise they are one of the most advanced (if not the most advanced) mounts. I had a Tak Em200 and a Tak Em400 before getting the Gm2000QCI, and I really don't miss the Taks, which are superb in their own way.

The mount uses belt drive system, and consequently has no backlash. Motors are AC Servo Brushless.

Setup is very easy and fast.
I do not have the optional polar scope, because it is not needed. I use it's Polar Alignment routine. I choose the "3 Stars Alignment" routine and I get within 1 arcmin of the Pole, normally. With that, I can image for 5 min UNguideded at 980mm focal length (TEC140).
You can of course use as many stars (up to 25) as you want to refine the Polar Alignment. So, you can practically get a perfect polar alignment.
Moreover, the software will calculate the Orthogonality error between the main imaging scope and the guidescope, and correct for it.
By using the athmospheric pressure, temperature, and altitude, it will also correct for athmospheric refraction.
You can imagine what kind of guiding you can get with these mounts. (usually I have errors of 0.03-0.05 pixels with a 3 star alignment routine, so I don't even need to guide)
The keypad also has a T-Point like software in it. You can build a pointing model and save it internally.

The mount has a LAN port, which you can use to connect it to your laptop. No need for Serial to USB adapters, finally. The Kaypad has its own IP Address. So, if you have an observatory, you can access the mount remotely, without needing to have a planetarium program (with which of course they are compatible, by using either the LX200 or the APGTO protocols)

The mount can go up to 20deg/sec of slewing and tracking speed. Yep, 20degress per seconds. Tracking satellites is super easy. The mount waits for the satellite (if it is below the horizon) 5 deg below the horizon line, and starts beeping slow when the satellites is 1 minute away from being visible. 10 seconds before, the beeps become faster, and it will start tracking it as it become visible. There is usually no need to refine the pointing, if it was done correctly, but you can use the Keypad to adjust and center the satellite, and the mount will calculate the new track based on the correction you made in the keypad while tracking it for the first few seconds.

Look here for another review of it: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1704

For any other questions, please feel free to ask.

E.

PS: The GM1000HPS will be available soon, I hear. Within 6 months.


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398704 - 02/20/11 07:07 AM

Hello,

I've had a 10Micron GM2000 & GM4000. Both Mounts are a desaster !!!!
They have big issues with autoguiding especially correction in the DEC Axis. With the GM 4000 Autoguiding was horror. I would never ever buy a 10 Micron.

Only my 2 Cents

Immo


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398727 - 02/20/11 07:47 AM

Immo,
that is strange to hear. Have you talked with Ivan, explaining what the problem is?

E.


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398731 - 02/20/11 07:56 AM

Hi Emanuel,

I was in the Beta Tester Group with some others (R. Geisinger, S. Voltmer etc.). We had all the same Problems. That was the reason for the big sofwareupgrade (cause it's a software problem, mechanics are ok). Also the reason for the Encoders. But if you can't manage the first closed loop, I don't know, how it shoul work with two. I think, thats the reason, why they have advertised the Encoder upgrade long time ago ant it is still not available.

Regards

Immo


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398747 - 02/20/11 08:07 AM

Oh, I see. Well, I guess that problem has been taken care of a long while ago, because I don't know anyone that is having that problem these days. Actually I have talked with Rolf many times, and he recommended the Gm2000 to me as well, as a superb mount.
He is very happy with his.
Dirk Bautzmann has one as well, and he told me he is very happy with it.

I think it is normal to have problems while beta testing a mount. As long as the problems are corrected when the mount comes out of beta testing.

You can check here Dirk's GM2000 QCI PE (with PEC OFF):
http://www.astro-fotos.com/ausruestung.html
Scroll down to see the setup and the PE graph. 3.52 arcsec Peak-to-Peak unguided with an RMS of 1.01



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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398763 - 02/20/11 08:16 AM

Emanuel,

this problem is up to Date.
Dirk Bautzmann had the same issues. He sold his GM2000 a short time after he has got it. Now he has a ASA DDM 85. Dirk has had a Losmandy Titan before he had sold it to buy a GM2000, cause he has heard only good things about this mount. But he declaired the same guiding issues and he said, that he had much better results with the Titan.

Look, I was one of the first, who reported those issues and was also one of the BETA Testers for the actual Softwareupgrade. The main reason for that, was the guiding Problem. As long as I was a 10Micron owner and a Beta Tester they have not solved the main problems. But made a lot of new things instaed solving the realy big problems. But this is the decision from 10 Micron. Those Mounts and the big problems with them was the main reason for us, to give up our remote observatory in Verclause.

Regards

Immo

Edited by darkforce (02/20/11 08:21 AM)


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398770 - 02/20/11 08:21 AM

Immo,

ok. I don't have that problem, and neither all the people that are using the mounts here in Italy.
As I said, I think the problem you were having while Beta Testing the mount, has been fully resolved, as I didn't even know about it.


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398774 - 02/20/11 08:25 AM

Emaluel,

as I mentioned, it is no mechanical problem. So the PE curve is very good and smooth. But the guiding issues are significant. We had guiding peaks at both mounts GM4000 & GM 2000 from 2" to 5"

And the problems are still there - in the old and the beta software.

Immo


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398778 - 02/20/11 08:31 AM

Immo,

thank you for your input. I will investigate with Ivan (owner) on this problem, as I have never heard about it from anyone else (Rolf Geiss, Dirk etc), and neither from the person who reviewed it in Swizterland.


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398780 - 02/20/11 08:34 AM

Emanuel,

then you have better Mounts for the iatalian market ;-)
The problems has nothing to do with beta software, cause the reason to change so much in the software where those issues before , in the old and tested software. I know only people, who have problems, but no one would tell here in a public forum. If your GM 2000 is making no problems - congratulations !

But I cant confirm that by my own experiences.

Immo


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398784 - 02/20/11 08:37 AM

Emanuel,

Rolf was also in the Beta Tester group and he reported about the problems. I know Dirk very well and he sold his GM2000 because of that problems - you can believe me :-)


Immo

Edited by darkforce (02/20/11 08:38 AM)


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398887 - 02/20/11 09:36 AM

I believe you Immo. There might have been some problems in the beta test software, but I also believe Rolf's pictures on his website. he got an Apod for his IC1396 not too long ago.
I see no problems in his pictures with guiding.


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398925 - 02/20/11 09:51 AM

Emanuel,

the problems are not from the BETA softwate it was still in the older versions. The main reason to come out with this big upgrade was to solve those problems. But it didn't. So they decided to bring out a Encoder solution. The Reason is, they have no idea, what causes those problems. From my point of view, the reason is a buggy software to translate the guider signals into servo signals. That is not realy trivial job. But there is only one person responsible for the IT - solutions....

Emanuel, I think you are long enough a Astrophotographer. You know, that a APOD or every pic which is not a full resolution RAW frame sais nothing about the quality from the Equipment. Rolfs Apod is done with a TEC 140 @ 980mm focal length. It is also a narrowband image. You can't evaluate guiding or tracking issues with pics like this.

Immo

P.S. For me it is no problem, if you say 10Micron's are the best Mounts still out there, but as I said, my experiences say something completly different. And as I also mentioned, I'm not alone ;-)

Edited by darkforce (02/20/11 09:54 AM)


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4398940 - 02/20/11 09:57 AM

That's ok, Immo.
I guess to each his own. I have never heard of these guiding problems anywhere. In fact here's a website with satisfied customers:
http://www.10micron.de/

Anyway. Let's close this discussion otherwise it will go on forever.


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4398943 - 02/20/11 09:59 AM

Emanuel,

I think that is the only solution for both of us
to come out of the "...if then ... Goto..," loop :-))))

Regards

Immo


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4399394 - 02/20/11 01:54 PM

Are you really telling me thst a mount costing 11000 euros and that has been in production for a number of years cannot function with an auto guider?

I will be contacting the company in the morning referring them to darkforce's comments and if unfounded will be referring these very harmful comments to the administrator and owner of cloudy nights...these type of comments an destroy a company and i have not heard of this from any other owner before


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4399547 - 02/20/11 03:03 PM

Howard,

do what you want to do. It's the truth & sometimes it's hard to believe.
The best way to find it out is, buy a 10Micron and test it by yourself.

CS

Immo


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Alph
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4399613 - 02/20/11 03:32 PM

Quote:

From my point of view, the reason is a buggy software to translate the guider signals into servo signals. That is not realy trivial job.



This sounds very odd. Even fairly cheap mounts can handle guider commands correctly. Are you telling us that the 10Micron mount can’t track at a specified or desired rate? Is guiding done via the ST4 port or some other port?


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Andrea.Moroni
journeyman


Reged: 09/18/09

Loc: Milan - Italy
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Alph]
      #4399647 - 02/20/11 03:46 PM

Hi Emanuele,
looks like this german boy has something personal against 10micron.
Maybe he is right but the style and the fury are very suspicious to me.


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Andrea.Moroni]
      #4399676 - 02/20/11 04:00 PM

I don't think there's anything to add to this thread, beside just going to Stern-fan.de website and look at the pictures Rolf is taking with a Planewave 12.5". and that is just one example.
Another example is Danilo Pivato pictures in the CCD forums.
I am guiding at 0.25X with my Lodestar through the ST4 port and usually take 20min subs at 1000mm of focal length without problems.
Aggressiveness is set to 1 in both X and Y axis.

Anyway, I am not going say anything more about this. Seems not worth it at this point.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4399719 - 02/20/11 04:29 PM

It might not be "worth it" to you Emanuele but I am about to make a bank transfer for 14000 euros for this mount...which I am now being told cannot track with a guider...and I would imagine there are others equally alarmed by what Immo has to report..............the people in Italy will have to report on this..........this is as serious as it gets for a high end mount to be completely useless at guiding is a distinct breach of every retail sales law I know of...a product has to be fit for purpose..I would like to hear from others who cannot guide with their GM2000...........a report can then be made and class actions against the company can be initiated if this is indeed the case.............I will not let 10 Micron make and sell a mount that cannot guide

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4399783 - 02/20/11 05:04 PM

Howard, please do get in contact with other 10Micron users and with the company itself as well.

I am not affiliated with 10Micron. just a very happy user of their superb mounts.


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dietmar
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/21/05

Loc: linz, austria europe
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4400817 - 02/21/11 02:14 AM

hi guys,

I am afraid I will have to chime in with Immo.
you will not notice the guiding issue at an image-scale larger than 2" per pixel. in that cases, you might have nice results of course.
but anything that goes below that number (oversampling, like in longer focal length) you will certainly have the problem, like so many others! and it is a repeatable error.
nothing to do with mechanics, wich is veray good in 10 micron. it is a problem of the module "electronics-software".
high resolution imaging with 10 micron is simply not possible, in case you have to guide in dec-axis.
RA is reasonable and fairly ok.

please consider your purchase very carefully and gather this input.
unfortunately ba far not all users who have seen the same problems (and we are NOT talking about beta-testers but customers and users like we were) would ever want to report over this issues in public.

until 10 micron does not have a totally new setup for their dec-drive system, the mount does not qualify for high plate scale imaging (resolution below 2" per pixel) that is a mathematical evidenced based fact.

cheers


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4400828 - 02/21/11 02:21 AM

It is also difficult for me to believe that a very expensive mount would have a problem!
But you never know!!!

In any case I was planning to buy a GM 2000, but now after reading this.....?

Is 10MICRON aware of these problems?

Are there other persons who have NO problem with this mount?

After all it is a seriously investment.

Please, give us more information!


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4400870 - 02/21/11 03:23 AM

Dietmar,

If what you are saying is true, how do I image, then, at 1.14"/pixel?
How do people using Planewaves and Officina Stellare RC image?
If there ever was a problem in the Beta Test software it has certainly been corrected because I, like many other users, dont have it.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4401503 - 02/21/11 12:39 PM

the company in Italy will be fully informed and I will keep all posted here on what they have to say....I for one have cxl'd my order and will look at an american high end mount that actually functions

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4401546 - 02/21/11 01:00 PM

The company has already been fully informed of the accusations Howard

Hope you'll be happy with the new mount and lots of clear nights to you.
E.


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4401618 - 02/21/11 01:32 PM

Hello Maurits,
Hello HowardK

>Are there other persons who have NO problem with this mount?

Yes, there are! Me and many other satisfied 10micron users!

Do you detect any severe guiding problems in the following raw-images?
Autoguiding was done with an off-axis guider and a SX lodestar cam. Location was my city-balcony, surrounded by many other houses.
Mount was a 10micron GM2000.



20 min H-alpha-frame with TEC140 (980mm focal length)
FLI ML 16803-65 cam with 9µm Pixels




full res


20 min luminance-frame with Planewave 12.5" CDK (2541mm focal length)
FLI ML 16803-65 cam with 9µm Pixels




full res

Please check out my gallery at www.stern-fan.de for further pics.



Review 10micron GM2000 in German:
http://www.stern-fan.de/Seiten/montierung-gm2000.htm

Review 10micron GM2000 in English:
http://www.stern-fan.de/Seiten/montierung-gm2000_eng.htm



In my optinion, 10micron manufactures very fine mounts with most advanced firmware and
very helpful features. The developers at 10micron improve the internal firmware
to the customer’s needs.
Of course, a GM2000 can even handle big focal length scopes properly.
I can recommend this mount - no matter what other's may say.
I use my 10micron since several years without any problems.

There are many happy 10micron users around, please read their
reports on www.10micron.de (everybody can translate the German
language with Google), even professional observatories are working
successfully with these mounts in the conventional QCI version
But the GM 1000 HPS is even more advanced because it has high
resolution encoders in both axis and corrects every little
tracking problem - if it´s from wind or mechanically - immediately.



Regards
Rolf Geissinger

Edited by geissi (02/21/11 02:29 PM)


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wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...


Reged: 07/30/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4401700 - 02/21/11 02:15 PM

I e-mailed 10-Micron and suggested they join this discussion. Would like to know their position on this.

Chris


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: wz2]
      #4401723 - 02/21/11 02:25 PM

chris

i will also be contacting the company directly and drawing their attention here............there is completely conflicting information presented here about the most critical part of this mount.........being able to guide


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4401817 - 02/21/11 03:18 PM

Hello,

hope we can talk factually without polemics and without trading insults.
So what I can see, there are several experiences about this Mounts. I can accept this and I think, we should demonstrate respect for each other.

So here are two examples from guiding error-graphs which we have done with Maxim DL ca. one year ago.
Scope was a 9" Folded TMB APO with round about 2000mm of focal
length. Camera was a SBIG STL 11k. So the image scale is something like
0,90arcsec/pixel. The Guiding was done via guider Relays, with self guiding (SBIG) plugged in the ST4 port from the GM4000. We have also tried software guiding (pulse) with AP - Protocol. Without success. Also various programs like CCD-Soft.

The Mount was a GM4000 fitted on a concrete pier at our Remote Observatory in the south of france. The problems, we had with guiding in the DEC-Axis is, as I mentioned, ca. 1 year ago. I do not know, cause we sold both mounts (GM2000 & 4000) if they have a solution for this problem right now, but that was our experiences with both mounts - I'm sorry.

Here are the two examples from Guiding-Error Graphs (Blue=DEC):




So you can see, in DEC the graph shows something like a saw tooth design. Both Mounts GM2000 & GM4000 showed the same type of saw tooth error. As I mentioned, we tried many things (rd. about 6 month) to get this out. We is Dietmar Hager, Martin Winder and myself.

And here is the PE Curve from the same Mount. As you can see, it's very good and smooth (Peak to Peak 2,65"):

PE-Curce GM4000

So it's no question from the PE or the mechanics. From our experiences it was a problem with electronics, software .... especially in DEC.

Hope this helps a little bit to show our point of view.

CS

Immo


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4401838 - 02/21/11 03:32 PM

Thanks for this Immo

We will have to see what 10 Micron themselves have to say.......i would not be happy if i had ordered a mount from them


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4402986 - 02/22/11 01:11 AM

Thanks for all the answers and let's hope these arguments end up good!

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Dennis Sakva
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/19/04

Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4403600 - 02/22/11 11:33 AM

Sawtooth graphs like this can be due to a sticky axis combined with bad balance when worm rotation pulls heavier side of the telescope instead of pushing it. This way the strain accumulates in worm-wheel pair until the force breaks the friction and telescope makes a small jump which is seen on the graph.
If the guiding graph shows accumulation of the error followed by rapid correction overshoot there's high probablity that we are dealing with improperly loaded axis.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Dennis Sakva]
      #4405369 - 02/23/11 07:11 AM

Dennis

Please read what Immo has to report.....he states absolutely that the guiding problem with 10 micron's mounts are due to electronic or software problems and NOT MECHANICAL such as sticky axis or poor
balancing.....i have been calling the company but there is no one answering the phone.......my order is cancelled for the GM2000 as I will
wait for the new mount to come out....I would presume then that this
issue would have been corrected so that a guider can talk perfectly with
the mount.


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
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Reged: 11/19/03

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Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4405599 - 02/23/11 09:40 AM

Howard, it's really interesting how you only give weight to what Immo says. Makes me think if you are the same person?
Immo and Dietmar shared an observatory together. The problem they were having might have been localized to their own setup (stability problems with a folded refractor?), as no one is having this problems now.

If you take a moment to read again what Immo wrote in his posts, you'll see that:
In his first post he said the mounts have big problems guiding.
Then he said that he was a beta tester for a new software.
Then he said the guiding problem is up to date.
Then in his last posts he said the he doesn't have the mount anymore since 1+ year ago, and he doesn't know if the problem is still there.

Which one is it of the 4 different answers?

I don't think it's really coherent to say that 10Micron mounts apparent guiding problems (which again might have been very well localized to their own setup) are up to date, when they don't even own a 10micron mount since 1+ year ago.

And why are you considering only Immo report and not mine, Rolf Geissinger, and the other reviews we have linked to?


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4405623 - 02/23/11 09:52 AM

I would always look at the worst case scenario, Emanuele,...it is obvious that Immo could not guide and i cannot commit thousands of euros in case this worst case happens to me....too many bad experiences with mounts...I must be certain that the next one I buy will be the one I keep...i will speak with 10 Micron and see what they have to say.....your reference to me being Immo is infintile and reveals your closed mindedness....I am happy though that you love your mount

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
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Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4405637 - 02/23/11 10:02 AM

Too many bad exoeriences? Which one are the others? Because in this thread you have 1 bad experience with a non standard scope, really. As I said, Immo and Dietmar shared the observatory and they had 1 mount.

Again. They have no idea if their problem was their own setup, and moreover if the apparent problem is up to date.

I am not trying to convince you to buy a10Micron mount, at all. Do what you think its best for you.
I am just trying to point out that there's something really strange going on in is thread against 10Micron for some strange reason.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4405648 - 02/23/11 10:07 AM

Ok...i think to end this now is best.......speaking with the manufacturers will help me with my decision

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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4405675 - 02/23/11 10:23 AM

Hi Emanuele,

I'm really wondering about you arguments !
First of all, I think we know each other from
various mails & PN's with other topics (the last at a.de).
I thought, we foster a good relationship. Now, we have one topic with different experiences. So I can't see a big problem. As I wrote, I accept your and the comments from other users, which have made good experiences with the 10 Micron. But I'm sorry, that we tried both Mounts without success. Aim was high resolution imaging. That means for us a guiding-accuracy from max. +-0.5" for Lum.
So that you assume HowardK and me is the same person,
is more than strange. So there is nothing like a complot or anything else. We have only made our experiences with this mounts - that's all. We have had TWO 10 Micron Mounts. First we used the GM2000.
As she showed the reported Guiding error, we supposed,
that she may be on her limit with the 9" TMB APO. So, we decided to get a upgrade to the GM4000. As I have shown, the same problem occurred.

Thats all !

Best Regards

Immo

P.S.

I think also, it's the best for all, to close this thread now !
Cause I think it's time to quiet our minds. At the end of the
day, I will not have trouble with Emanuele and the others caused
by a thread called 10Micron. So thats my last statement in this topic.

Edited by darkforce (02/23/11 10:36 AM)


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: darkforce]
      #4406051 - 02/23/11 01:21 PM

Hello,

my name is Rolf Geissinger and I am a member of the 10micron beta tester team. Baader-Planetarium authorized me to give a statement in their name until their CN account is verified in order to get the users informed on time.



Unfortunately Mr. Gerber left the project of
betatesting and gave the mount back before we could finalize the work in finding his problem.
Mr. Gerber worked with firmware version around 1.7.2 - meanwhile there have been different new
releases. 2.7.9 is the actual firmware version which certainly is much advanced - but this was not
the source of Mr.Gerber´s problem.

Mr. Gerber´s mount was shipped back to the factory 10 Micron where it got a very thorough examination.
The mount was performing very well when tested at the manufacturer, not any "jumps" during guiding/tracking
were detectable. To solve the mystery, the software engineer examined the tracking logs again that Mr. Gerber
had e-mailed while he was a member of the Betatester team. It was found that the biggest jumps were due
to some strange interrupts in the signal from the guider that "freezed" the guiding commands.

The reason for this behaviour was caused by an outside phenomenon, probably induced from somewhere else
into the electronics. Most likely due to the camera or PC, guiding head, power source, switches, cables - we
cannot say where exactly but definitely not in the mount.It was a unique problem in the equipment/configuration.

Mr. Gerber was not aware of this at this time and we have not been aware at this time too because we could not
directly test it as the mount was remotely used somewhere in France. This is also a logical explanation for the
fact that there are not any other customer reporting about such extreme behaviour of their mounts.

Mr. Gerber is right, some of the betatester team experienced jumps too a year ago, but nowhere that big and
certainly not that much.

The reason for those small jumps was analyzed to be a universal problem of any worm wheel drive - namely
"static friction" (stiction) - happening in the very moment when the DEC motor starts to make a guiding correction.
Every mount with worm-gear drive is affected by stiction. The new firmware 2.7.9 has the function of
"stiction compensation" which allows to finetune the drive in a way that when the motor starts it overcomes this
"stiction" almost completely.

Furthermore the newest firmware version enables "dual axis guiding", meaning that the declination axis is
contiunuously working in ever so miniscule increments so that no static friction jumps can occur. With these
new tools and the newly developed "Advanced PEC" (A-PEC), the drive is working very smoothly, that explains
that users report guiding accuracies around 1"-2" - without any jumps.

The new firmware also enables the GM mounts to run much higher slewing speeds so that they are now able to
track satellites ( without any PC or Laptop attached ) - for example please check Mr. Duins photo of an Ariane
rocket stage:

http://www.10micron.de/kundenzitate_htm/duin_erfahrungsbericht.htm

If 10micron mounts would generally create "jumps" of eight seconds while tracking - or cause similar problems -
they would have a hard time to sell the mounts and fight against all the complains of the customers.

This is not the case.

The HPS mounts with high accuracy encoders will be available as a second, higher priced product
line from May/June this year on. They are very interesting for those customers which don´t have an observatory
and are using mobile equipment. The HPS mount line is not a replacement, it is a new product category
that fills a gap on the marked.

Best Regards
Rolf Geissinger


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4406202 - 02/23/11 02:28 PM

At last.......somebody with the answer to Immo's problem......i think Immo has a lot to learn from this.......to seriously put down a product without knowing the full outcome of the manufacturer's report on his 2 mounts...is irresponsible in the least......if I were10 Micron I would be most upset....mind you 10 Micron should have notified Immo of the results so he would have realsed that the mount itself was not at fault.

Thanku Ralph....my confidence is restored


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4406220 - 02/23/11 02:35 PM

I meant Rolf not Ralph

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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4406250 - 02/23/11 02:49 PM

Thank you Rolf once again for chiming in and with Mr.Baader authorization to release this information.

I apologize to HowardK for anything wrong (against him) I have said in my posts. But you can't believe the frustration to hear those accusations and knowing of how good the mount is.

Clear skies to all.
E.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4406637 - 02/23/11 05:56 PM

Apology accepted

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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4414516 - 02/27/11 09:41 AM

When I look on the site from 10MICRON there is the "GM2000-HPS" mount, with a movie (rotation demo), and it goes very FAST!

The "black" color is very nice to see.

BUT what I can't seen is a sort of the "QCI control System", or is it something else?

With the "GM2000 QCI" there was a controller integrated into the base of the mount!

Is it a 2-Piece Mount Head?

Any way, I find it a very "beautiful" and "functional" mount!


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Emanuele
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Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4414744 - 02/27/11 12:04 PM

Maurits,

yep, the slew speed with the new firmware (i have 2.7.6) has been brought up to 20 deg/ sec.
I usually use 10 deg / sec and it is more than enough. It is kind of scary to see the scope moving around so fast.

If I am not mistaken the only thing that changed in the new HPS mounts is the added encoders and the cable management.

It is still a 2 piece mount (UltraPortable version).


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4414804 - 02/27/11 12:33 PM

Emanuelle, thanks for the quick reply!

Do you think that the "GM2000 HPS" uses the same controller and software like the "GM2000 QCI"?

Is there also a hand terminal available?

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=N6GvuO_9tLY&vq=medium

When you look around the "centaurus" tripod, there isn't a terminal like by the QCI.

10MICRON 2000 HPS


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4415317 - 02/27/11 04:48 PM

In the above post you can see that there is a difference in the "base" of the GM2000HPS.

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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4416468 - 02/28/11 07:56 AM

I have been looking very good to the base of the GM2000 HPS mount and I "think" that the "QCI control module" is the same separate (with the last software version) as by the GM2000 QCI.

I "think" you can move this module from the centaurus tripod, isn't it?


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Dennis Sakva
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/19/04

Loc: Kiev, Ukraine
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4416534 - 02/28/11 08:51 AM

Howard,
It's often hard to deduce if the problem is mechanical/electrical/firmware/software or a combination of three.


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Dennis Sakva]
      #4416925 - 02/28/11 12:29 PM

Hello Maurits,

the new 10micron HPS-Mount can be purchased with a separate controller box or with an integrated box as well. Both options are still available. The controller hardware and firmware are (nearly) the same as with the GM2000 QCI.

The mount is available as a "one-piece" monolithic as well as a "two-piece" separatable version.

The handcontroller and the software handling will be the same as in the "normal" GM-mounts.

Mechanics, look-and-feel and electronics of the HPS are nearly the same as in te QCI-Version (except the built in encoders of course)

For further information please contact
baader-planetarium.de

e-mail: kontakt(at)baader-planetarium.de

Best Regards
Rolf Geissinger

Edited by geissi (02/28/11 12:33 PM)


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4416974 - 02/28/11 12:49 PM

Rolf, thanks so much for the valuable information!

Because after I've read your experience message (in German), I got a confidence in this product!


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Joe Cipriano
Entropy Personified
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Reged: 09/03/05

Loc: Uh... anyone have a GPS?
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4417077 - 02/28/11 01:43 PM

I'm curious about the new GM1000 HPS (price & capacity).
The tracking error graph is impressive - although the ad text differs from the graph, stating 4" p-p (still darn impressive).


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Joe Cipriano]
      #4417355 - 02/28/11 04:10 PM

Hey Joe....deep dish, anyone? I've never seen the mount in action, but I gave it a good look-see at last year's AIC. If fit, finish and beauty count for anything, this mount is a winner! It's a piece of artwork for someone that's a mount junkie. You can see that extra care is taken when producing the thing.

It looked very much like the quality of the Planewave mount which is another dandy. But the 10 Micron is a winner in my eyes.

David


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #4417402 - 02/28/11 04:35 PM

Hello Joe,

just I got the latest info concerning the new GM1000.

weight: 18kg
load capacity: 25kg
Build in high res encoders.


Regards
Rolf


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4417428 - 02/28/11 04:46 PM

Rolf, do you have the same latest info about the new GM2000HPS?

I saw on a picture that the centaurus mount was black, is it a new color tripod that mach the color of the mount, or is it the carbon version?

Thanks in advance.


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4417466 - 02/28/11 05:03 PM

Hi Maurits,

mechanics of the GM2000 HPS are nearly the same as the GM2000 QCI. So weight and load will be the same, as well.

DEC-unit: 13.5kg
R.A.-unit: 15.1kg
photographical load: approx. 40kg

I'll check with Baader-Planetarium, if there are the newest prices available.

Sorry, I have no idea with the tripod colors. I think, these will be the same as with the GM2000 QCI (steel and carbon)


Regards
Rolf


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Joe Cipriano
Entropy Personified
*****

Reged: 09/03/05

Loc: Uh... anyone have a GPS?
Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4417527 - 02/28/11 05:38 PM

Hey, David!
Re: Deep Dish... none lately, which reminds me - I need my fix!

Rolf:
Many thanks. 25kg, if that's for imaging, is more than sufficient for my needs.
Whenever you can get info on the price, I'd appreciate it.


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Joe Cipriano]
      #4418363 - 03/01/11 02:12 AM

This is the picture from the black centaurus tripod.


Link black centaurus


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
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Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4418388 - 03/01/11 02:59 AM

Maurits,

The black tripod is the Centaurus, all aluminum if I am not mistaken.
There are not many information on this mount just yet.


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4418390 - 03/01/11 03:04 AM

Hello,

just, I got the newest prices. Please remember, these are netto without VAT.

GM1000 HPS: EUR 5800,- (w/o VAT)
GM2000 HPS Monolith: EUR 10500,- (w/o VAT)
GM2000 HPS Ultraport: EUR 10900,- (w/o VAT)
GM2000 HPS full package: EUR 12000,- (w/o VAT)

The new price list will be available soon at the Baader-Planetarium website.

Regards
Rolf


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4418416 - 03/01/11 04:05 AM

Rolf, Emanuelle, thanks so much for the great information!

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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4418448 - 03/01/11 05:07 AM

Rolf

Do you know.......

When will the GM2000 HPS be finished with its testing and available to the public?


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4418503 - 03/01/11 06:03 AM

Hello Howard,

some first test-mounts should be deliverd in April/Mai 2011.
I'm very sorry - I don't know much more.

Regards
Rolf


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4418954 - 03/01/11 11:48 AM

Thanks, Rolf

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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4432122 - 03/07/11 12:01 PM

I've seen that the new 10MICRON GM2000 HPS mount has no longer a hole for the polar aligment finder!

Look at the pictures


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geissi
member


Reged: 12/28/06

Loc: Germany
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4439640 - 03/10/11 11:17 AM

Hallo Maurits,

you will not need any polar finder scope with 10micron mounts. Polar alignement can easily be done with the firmware - fast and precise. I never missed a polar scope. You even don't need polaris - just select a star from the list, center it - done.

By the way: The new price list is available now:
http://www.10micron.de/10micron_htm/preise.htm

Regards
Rolf


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: geissi]
      #4442225 - 03/11/11 12:19 PM

Rolf, thanks for the link to Baader with the prices!

It's a lot of money, but it is a fantastic mount, especially with the carbon fiber centaurus tripod!


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4444459 - 03/12/11 12:50 PM

Am i right in saying that the 2000 HPS mount does not use gears from the motor to the worm but instead uses a kevlar belt?

And if so does this remove backlash that is found in mounts with traditional gears?


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Emanuele
Lord of the Ring
*****

Reged: 11/19/03

Loc: Brescia-Italy, and Iowa-US
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4444589 - 03/12/11 01:44 PM

Hi Howard,

yes, that is correct. And it is also valid for the normal GM2000 QCI and all the other mounts.
They are belt driven, and have no backlash.


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4445058 - 03/12/11 05:28 PM

Man I love this black mount a lot

I save money for this beauty, and for the carbon tripod!


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SPACEMAN
sage


Reged: 01/30/05

Loc: grömme,Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #4445182 - 03/12/11 06:20 PM

Hello,

i would not go for the Carbon Tripod if i where you..., Carbon is really stiff, and if it cracks, it crack and you equipment is on the floor..., what are you planning to put on the mount?


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #4445305 - 03/12/11 07:10 PM

Hi

No backlash...thats just great....i got to have one of these mounts!!!!,


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: SPACEMAN]
      #4445317 - 03/12/11 07:16 PM

Spaceman

There is no way i can see that a carbon tripod will split........what made you say that?


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MAURITS
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #4446045 - 03/13/11 04:34 AM

Spaceman, I plan to buy a Tec APO 160 FL in the near feature!

The carbon centaurus tripod seems to be strong and very well made!


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SPACEMAN
sage


Reged: 01/30/05

Loc: grömme,Belgium
Re: 10Micron new [Re: MAURITS]
      #5199988 - 05/01/12 11:56 AM

Putting back an old post:
I will be ordering a 10 Micron 2000GM HPS with in a week!


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: SPACEMAN]
      #5200260 - 05/01/12 02:24 PM

Excellent news fr you

Please let us know how the mount works out...
I'm very sure it will be just fantastic

Please keep us posted with phts if possible


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zakky2k
newbie


Reged: 10/17/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #5274053 - 06/16/12 08:08 AM

Hi All, any updates regarding the GM1000 HPS?

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jsteinberg48
super member


Reged: 01/01/08

Loc: Scarsdale, NY
Re: 10Micron new [Re: HowardK]
      #5275131 - 06/17/12 01:29 AM

Alpine Astro represents them in the U.S. They look nice but I have not used one.

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wz2
Most Boring Astronomer...


Reged: 07/30/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Emanuele]
      #5275410 - 06/17/12 10:22 AM

Quote:


Setup is very easy and fast.
I do not have the optional polar scope, because it is not needed. I use it's Polar Alignment routine. I choose the "3 Stars Alignment" routine and I get within 1 arcmin of the Pole, normally. With that, I can image for 5 min UNguideded at 980mm focal length (TEC140).
You can of course use as many stars (up to 25) as you want to refine the Polar Alignment. So, you can practically get a perfect polar alignment.
Moreover, the software will calculate the Orthogonality error between the main imaging scope and the guidescope, and correct for it.
By using the athmospheric pressure, temperature, and altitude, it will also correct for athmospheric refraction.
You can imagine what kind of guiding you can get with these mounts. (usually I have errors of 0.03-0.05 pixels with a 3 star alignment routine, so I don't even need to guide)
The keypad also has a T-Point like software in it. You can build a pointing model and save it internally.





Interesting, so it has software similar to T-Point. Does it have anything similar to Bisque's Pro-Track as well? Also, can you elaborate on the comment about correcting for atmospheric refraction.

Thanks! Chris


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: 10Micron new [Re: wz2]
      #5685342 - 02/17/13 02:32 PM

My 10Micron 1000 HPS arrives on Tuesday from Ian King Imaging. I'll post back on my impressions once the observatory is finished in April.

Note that this mount does not have provision for a polar scope. I'm hoping that PA is as easy as the T-Point like routine provided by the Losmandy Gemini which I'ved used for 9 years with great success. IKI says its pretty much the same on the HPS.


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HowardK
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/20/10

Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #5685689 - 02/17/13 06:23 PM

Congrats on the new mount
Do keep us posted
I am most interested in this.


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied
*****

Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #5686077 - 02/17/13 10:09 PM

Pretty cool, Tony! I saw one at the AIC a couple years ago. A work of mount art!! Can't wait to read your review.

David


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Per Frejvall
member


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5686756 - 02/18/13 10:32 AM Attachment (28 downloads)

Got my GM1000HPS today as a compliment to the GM2000HPS that I already have. This is the future!

Mechanically, they're works of art and the accuracy is stunning. I have never guided my GM2000 and have taken one hour long subs with round stars. I expect the same from the GM1000HPS.

As for modeling the sky, I have written a model maker for 10Micron mounts and it works great. Note that the model is not kept in a PC in the 10Micron world; it is all in the mount controller. Thus, the mount is fully stand-alone when the model has been created (with the aid of a PC, MaximDL, Pinpoint and my ASCOM driver).

I have just thrown a site together with info on the model maker and some other stuff. You can also download the ASCOM driver and a command-line utility from there. http://astro.frejvall.se is the address.

I put an unboxing thread on SGL http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/177893-gm1000hps-unboxing/

Unfortunately, this forum doesn't lend itself to free linking to images from the internet so I cannot post the unboxing here

Full review coming up on SGL eventually. Right now the weather is promised to be cloudy for at least another ten days and I have to go on a trip to the US and Canade for ten days next Monday, so... It'll take a while.

/per

Edited by Per Frejvall (02/18/13 10:39 AM)


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #5689555 - 02/19/13 07:36 PM

My GM 1000 HPS has arrived! God is it a work of art!! But its without the base adapter . When thats sorted out by IKI I can get it on its pier for some test runs.

I've run though the 84 page manual tonight and so far the HPS controller seems to operate in a very similar fashion to my Losmany Gemini controller - certainly when it comes to buildin pointing models and polar alignment. So I'm expecting to get familar quickly.

The hand set is wonderfully chunky (unlike the Losmandy hand set) and designed to be operated with thick gloved hands.

Even though its 10 Microns smallest mount in the HPS series - I wouldn't say its "portable" - not without a trolley. Losmandy's GM-8 mount on the other hand is portable. I'm going to keep the latter for a year so see how I get on with both mounts. I've got the HPS to go on a permanent pier that the trailer park I use is allowing me to place next to our trailer (its a posh managed site in the Yorkshire Dales so is relatively safe when it comes to leaving gear out under tarps. If I find I'm still needing to be mobile I keep the GM-8.

Can't say much more at present until the missing bit is acquired and the German plug on the 24V regulated PSU gets changed for a UK one!

Quote:

I have never guided my GM2000 and have taken one hour long subs with round stars. I expect the same from the GM1000HPS




This is what I am hoping. The specs say 1" error after 15-20 minutes. I really want to avoid autoguiding. Good to hear this is real for the higher spec 2000.

Quote:

Got my GM1000HPS today as a compliment to the GM2000HPS that I already have.




I think you might need to go to Astronomers Anonymous - sound like an addiction. I can't aford to get this addiction as I had to plead with wife that after 10 years of sterling service my GM-8 was old and creaky and needed up-grading. Actually I was going to get a PMX but at the Astrofest exhibition 10 days ago in London, I saw and fell in love with the GM 1000 - well it is Italian!

Per - I have your links book marked.


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Per Frejvall
member


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tonk]
      #5731571 - 03/14/13 02:45 AM

Short report...

Just like a sudden bolt of lightning the weather has changed from always cloudy to always clear, so I've had some time to get familiar with the 1000.

The only issue I have so far is guiding. Now, that's going to sound like music to the "opponents" of the 10Micron mounts, but I will immediately inform everyone that the mount guides to 0.05" RMS in both axis when using PHD Guiding. It is with MaximDL that the problem arises; it simply won't guide well.

It is probably a settings problem, but I can inform you that I have not yet ironed it out. I got it working once with 10s exposures, 2.5 in agressiveness and a guide factor of 0.25. As soon as CCD Autopilot turned off guiding for dither and the re-enabled it it lost it. And I mean completely.

So I reverted to just tracking directly in Maxim for some tests. Ra will hardly move during calibration despite different settings regarding auto declination, mount set to declination compensation or not, dual axis tracking and what not.

There has to be a way to tame Maxim but so far I have not found it. When I will, and I will, I'll post the results.

So what's the magic with PHD? I have used it extensively and only ever had to change the calibration pulse duration at times - that's all. I whish it was compatible with MaximDL and that the two could be used side by side and in concert.

Anyway, I have confirmed that the pulse-guiding support in my ASCOM driver is and always was OK. That's good.

As for AA, well, yes, that could be an option Currently looking - but not buying (promise) cool scopes. It's a pity I do not like diffraction spikes

/per

Edited by Per Frejvall (03/14/13 03:01 AM)


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WadeH237
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #5731609 - 03/14/13 03:34 AM

Poor guiding in Maxim is often a calibration issue. Did the Maxim calibration go smoothly (and produce an 'L' with a nice, 90 degree angle)?

Maxim calibrates by making one, relatively large movement on each axis, and sometimes gets confused about which star it's using for calibration. PHD use many shorter steps during calibration and seems to be a bit more robust.

-Wade


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Per Frejvall
member


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5732266 - 03/14/13 01:30 PM

It's total chaos with Maxim. The general feeling is Windows 3.1 but that's just my feeling

Anyway, when Maxim sends a 10s pulseguide command the mount receives it and initiates movement. It does, however, not produce a 10 seconds worth of movement in the mount. When PHD send the exact same command the mount does it. I am now enabling a special trace mode in the firmware in order to log ALL traffic to the mount. I might find that Maxim sends soemthing else to the mount that inhibits the movement, perhaps becaus e of a frirmware bug in the mount or something.

First, however, I'm giving CCDSoft a chance to guide the scope. We'll see what comes out of that.

Now, guiding a 10Micron shouldn't really be necessary, but I have two reasons for this:

1. Confirm my ASCOM driver's pulse-guide functionality
2. Compare a guided image to an unguided

Point 1 is already confirmed. It works like a charm. The ASCOM driver I wrote actually bypasses the firmaware "is pulseguiding" detection and does it with timer instead as I found that to be more robust than screaming at the mount all the time.

Point 2 is a thought I've had recently. I get round stars from a 1-hour unguided exposure with my GM2000HPS, but can the stars be smaller? Not that they were large, but nonetheless, perhaps all unguided imaging, no matter if ASA or 10Micron, can be slightly improved with the aid of very mild guiding? We'll see what comes out of it

/per


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Tapio
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/24/06

Loc: Tampere, Finland
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #5761740 - 03/28/13 04:51 AM

Just got through this thread.
My 50th birthday is nearing and I'm considering how to please myself.
A new mount would be nice and so far my options are Mesu-Mount, Losmandy (G11), AP (Mach-1) and this 10Micron is the the dark horse in my list.
So would be nice to hear real experience (Tonk and Per ?).


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Lagonda
member


Reged: 04/09/10

Loc: Zg, Croatia, Europe
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Tapio]
      #5776990 - 04/04/13 03:46 AM

We have GM 4000. I must say it is great looking mount, but...
Counterweight suppose to be stainless steel but we have a lot of rust on them. We payed software upgrade approx. 300 US dollars. The red light on the hand controller is gone.
After only 2-3 years of use.
Maybe it's "a bad piece" of production, but nevertheless. The mount is to expensive to have two, three problems like that. And we have to tell them to put park/unpark option somewhere "closer" in the menu because it was buried deep in the menu (it was not very easy to find it).


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Per Frejvall
member


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Lagonda]
      #5780115 - 04/05/13 04:40 PM

Well, I, for one, is very pleased with both my 10Micron mounts. I think the HPS versions are the ones to get, though, because of the absolute encoders. The QCI may be fine mounts mechanically but lack the encoders.

The longest sub I have gone for was a one hour at FL 1000mm. I ran six of them and lost one due to a gust and one due to clouds. A single sub crop can be seen at http://filer.frejvall.se/Hour.png

The GM2000 is now loaned to a friend and I have the GM1000 on the balcony pier. It's good too

/per

Edited by Per Frejvall (04/05/13 04:44 PM)


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Per Frejvall
member


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #5780122 - 04/05/13 04:45 PM

Note: the one hour sub was, of course, unguided. I have never guided a 10Micron mount...

/per


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Mike X.
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/28/10

Loc: Greece-Athens and Rome-Italy
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #5780265 - 04/05/13 06:03 PM

Fantastic mount , just saw it on the shop today

Edited by Mike X. (04/05/13 06:04 PM)


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orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Mike X.]
      #5781005 - 04/06/13 01:15 AM

Do these mounts have absolute encoders? and what is the tick count?

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Per Frejvall
member


Reged: 09/28/12

Loc: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
Re: 10Micron new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5781043 - 04/06/13 02:19 AM

The QCI ones do not have absolute encoder but the newer HPS series (High Precision and Speed) do. They are somewhere over 10 million ticks per rev.

In addition, they have retained the motor encoders present in the QCI series and use both in the control loops.

You can leave it pointing in any direction, power it off and come back a week later. It still knows where it's pointing after power on. No homing, no adjustments, no worries.

/per


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orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: 10Micron new [Re: Per Frejvall]
      #5781048 - 04/06/13 02:24 AM

Sounds like a good deal for us outside-Europe types. It turns out to be $7500 USD if we remove the MWST (the GM 1000 HPS).

Might be a good choice for me when I need something more than my Mach1.


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