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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

GOTO 102MM F14.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED
      #4443142 - 03/11/11 08:33 PM Attachment (132 downloads)

Got this old GOTO Tokyo 102mm f=1500 (f14.7) refractor OTA with finder scope yesterday, I am looking for more information and suggestions.

Condition of the glass is excellent. That's fortunate because the tube looks like it has gone through a war. Uncoated doublet group is mounted in a cell, then that cell is threaded into a collimatable cell which is attached to the tube. All I have done is clean the front and rear exposed surfaces and the glass has turned out to be very clear. I suppose not having any coatings to decay helps. I probably won't take the elements out of the cell as I have about 95% transparency as it sits and I don't plan on keeping the scope (already have a 4" f15 Antares). I will let the next owner have the fun of pulling the elements out and cleaning them.

The tube is metal and in terrible shape but worthy of restoration. Looks much better in my photo than it is, it is truly ugly. There are more than a few dents and the paint is horribly scraped. It would take removing the current (enamel?) finish, fixing the numerous dents, then repainting or powdercoating. Same for the dew shield. The focuser actually looks OK, the cell carrier has some paint loss, the cell itself (unscrews from the cell carrier) shows some anodizing decay. Tube has 5 internal baffles.

Eyepiece is a screw-in affair, unmarked as to power or focal length, with very decayed coating on the eyepiece lens and a missing eyecup. The rest of the eyepiece glass is very good, very clear, no other coating issues I can see, and with a very well defined field stop. I will try to figure out the focal length and AOV of the EP when I test the scope (maybe tonight on Saturn).

This scope is big and heavy. 65.5" long with the focuser all the way in and the EP installed, and 24lbs. Tube diameter is approx 4.125", dew shield is about 5.75" diameter.

Has what appears to be the original finder scope and brackets, finder scope is marked GOTO Tokyo, but no specifications. Front element is 30mm and overall length of tube is 16" with the optical path about 14" so this must be a pretty powerful finder scope. No crosshairs in the finder scope, nor does there seem to be any provision for any. Eyepiece of the finder scope has diopter control, much like a binocular, appears to be missing a screw-on eyecup.

Focuser is a very nice rack and pinion, with an excellent vernier scale on the side. It's a bit tight, probably due to old lube. The eyepiece screws into the focuser, along with what looks to be various adapter rings, all of which appear to be original.

I tried to do a Google search on GOTO but of course most of what I get is referencing modern GoTo computer controlled telescopes. I did see a few mentions of smaller GOTO scopes (50mm and 60mm mostly) but I haven't been able to find anything about a 102mm, nor any recorded sales. Can anyone point me to some specific info on the web about this scope? Maybe a scan of a brochure page? As I won't be keeping this scope I will be selling/trading it off but I want to play with it a bit first and also need to know some precedent as to value. Any known sales of this scope in any itteration? Any idea as to the power of the finder scope? Any idea what the "E." stands for that is before the "D=102mm" on the ID ring?

Thanks in advance.

Tom Duncan

Edited by oddog (03/12/11 01:13 AM)


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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443144 - 03/11/11 08:33 PM Attachment (72 downloads)

Photo of both cells, the inner cell threaded into the outer (collimatable) cell...

Edited by oddog (03/11/11 08:39 PM)


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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443150 - 03/11/11 08:35 PM Attachment (54 downloads)

The ID ring, one side...

Edited by oddog (03/11/11 08:36 PM)


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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443151 - 03/11/11 08:37 PM Attachment (48 downloads)

...and the other side (note the lettering is facing the other way)...

Edited by oddog (03/11/11 08:37 PM)


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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443154 - 03/11/11 08:38 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

...and the neat vernier scale on the focuser...

Edited by oddog (03/11/11 08:43 PM)


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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443156 - 03/11/11 08:39 PM Attachment (48 downloads)

...and the logo on the finder scope...

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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443161 - 03/11/11 08:42 PM Attachment (44 downloads)

...the focuser and finder scope...

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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443163 - 03/11/11 08:42 PM Attachment (48 downloads)

...and the eyepiece...

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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: WA
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443370 - 03/11/11 10:38 PM

Hi Tom.
Beautiful scope, I especially like the vernier scale on the focuser.
I don't know much about Goto but you will find lots of information here:
http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/classics/

Robert


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strdst
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: Oregon Territory
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443395 - 03/11/11 10:49 PM

Hi Tom,

Eerily quiet here. Your PM icon must be flashing incessantly! There are a number of us who own Goto Optical or Goto Kogaku telescopes from 50 mm (?) to 150mm. I have two. One is a 60 mm X 900 mm and one is 75 mm X 1200 mm with a lens cell that looks a lot like yours. Mine is missing the finder scope, your finder scope in fact, as mine was replaced at one time with a Unitron finder. I've been looking for a replacement Goto finder for three years now... Hmmm.

The last time I saw you here was over a gorgeous Nippon Kogaku 65 mm scope that you came to possess. Now this Goto. Are you always in the right place at the right time? A few much more in the Goto know folks are sure to chime in soon. Nice find.

other keith


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Ducky62
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/31/10

Loc: The ATL
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: actionhac]
      #4443412 - 03/11/11 10:57 PM

This link:
http://yumarin7.sakura.ne.jp/Csiryou.html
scroll down to the Goto catalogs and look at 1966 page 7
The tripod/EQ mounted telescope in the middle looks just like your OTA.


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Steve_M_M
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/04

Loc: Moorpark, CA
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: Ducky62]
      #4443450 - 03/11/11 11:20 PM

My best guess is that it is late 60's to early 70's based on "Goto Japan", the Goto Tokyo logo, and the finder(older 4" Gotos used 22mm finders). The eyepiece is from an earlier time and is the 40mm thread in.

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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: Steve_M_M]
      #4443652 - 03/12/11 02:09 AM

Thanks all for the input, the catalog pages confirm what this is. I didn't realize GOTO had made such a variety of instruments, the catalogs are really fun to browse through.

I got the chance to look through the GOTO tonight, if briefly between clouds/haze and before the Moon slipped around my house. I also had my Antares of the same specification to compare it to. I strapped the GOTO to the Antares rings (they were a bit small) with two large and strong bungie cords.

I now have a better understanding of why these scopes are so sought after. Without touching the collimation screws and only cleaning the outside surfaces of the lenses, the GOTO was clearly superior to the Antares. Contrast and sharpness was much better, the image of the Moon was just spectacular. Saturn was too small to evaluate, but I can say the image through the GOTO was much brighter than through the Antares. An informal star test on Sirius showed evenly spaced and well defined concentric rings and just a hint of color, plus the images were identical (except for the color) on both sides of focus. And this is after it has bounced around in a workshop for years, and with only cleaning the outside surfaces of the glass.

Even with the essentially destroyed coating of the eye lens of the eyepiece the contrast and sharpness was superior to the Antares with a Meade SWA 24.5mm EP. I can only imagine what this scope would deliver with modern EP's and a proper refurbishment.

If I wasn't such a diehard aperture fan (my default scope is a Skywatcher 12" and I have an 18" Sky Designs when I really get the yen for detail) I would have to consider keeping this puppy and selling the Antares, but the eyepieces would be a hassle...or would they? Does anyone make an adapter to allow the use of modern slip-in 1.25" EP's or accessories?

Tom


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oddog
sage


Reged: 11/11/08

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443658 - 03/12/11 02:13 AM

other Keith, my business is old camera stuff and so I do quite a bit of hunting at antique shows, Craigslist, flea markets and the like so I come across things. Since moving to a good sky area (Grass Valley, CA) four years ago I have gotten into astronomy so I have started to ask people I buy cameras from if they have an 'telescope stuff' and sometimes it pays off. Tom

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clintwhitman
Caveman
*****

Reged: 01/01/07

Loc: CALI SoEasyACavemanCanSlewIt
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4443674 - 03/12/11 02:27 AM Attachment (46 downloads)

I got a OddDog Scope! Tom it is the one I kept and is a great Nippon kogaku..... One of my favorites. How you been doing. Nice score on the GOTO.. Clint

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trainsktg
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Pacific Northwest
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #4443773 - 03/12/11 04:46 AM

Tom,

My 1957 S.E.Laslo (GOTO US importer) catalog shows a 4" refractor identical to yours except that the standard finder is a tiny 7x22. If your finder is original, and not added later, then according to my GOTO 70th Anniversary book, it is one of fourteen (only three exported overseas) 4" equatorials of this kind ever made.

E.D. I believe stands for Effective Diameter.

Keith


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Nave
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/23/10

Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4444252 - 03/12/11 11:13 AM

Quote:

Does anyone make an adapter to allow the use of modern slip-in 1.25" EP's or accessories?




The thread-pitch on the Goto I'm restoring is different from that of Vixen hybrids that can be used for other Japanese telescopes to make the conversion. So, I had one custom-machined.

You know, I'll bet mine would fit on yours....



I'll try to update the Magic Goto thread today to reflect that information.


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mikey cee
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: oddog]
      #4444255 - 03/12/11 11:14 AM

Is that just superficial paint scuffs on the dewshield? Will it all buff out? I ask because of the Goto logo being un restorable unless you ever paint over it by masking it off. Seeing that your from Grass Valley have you ever run into Clint Walker around town? Mike

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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: WA
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: mikey cee]
      #4444283 - 03/12/11 11:27 AM

The moldy oldies can be very good edging out a highly regarded Vixen spec Antares, I've seen this myself too. Not by much but a difference can be seen.
They really knew what they were doing back then.

Robert


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Steve_M_M
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/04

Loc: Moorpark, CA
Re: GOTO 102MM F4.7 F=1500 INFO/INPUT NEEDED new [Re: trainsktg]
      #4444397 - 03/12/11 12:13 PM

Quote:


except that the standard finder is a tiny 7x22.






And that is one reason I don't think it is one of those 14 made. The finder on this scope is not the 22mm. Also, I have yet to see "Goto Japan" used on anything prior to about 1961.

Steve


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