clengman
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Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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T Ring for micro four thirds camera
#4563376 - 05/05/11 12:56 PM
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I've got a celestron 130mm slt OTA and an Olympus E-PL1 camera. The scope already has T threads on the focuser. The camera uses micro four thirds system lenses. I'm trying to find an appropriate T ring to mount my camera on my scope for some extreme telephoto photography. (not necessarily astrophotography.) I already purchased one T ring and tried it out, but the adapter is a full 1.5" long and is far too long to allow me to focus at infinity. I'm wondering if anyone has ever come across a T ring for micro 4/3 cameras that is the normal ~1/4" or 3/8" thick. I'm sure one that size would work perfectly, but the only one I've found so far is that 1.5" long monster. Thanks!
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Phil Sherman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/07/10
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: clengman]
#4563477 - 05/05/11 01:55 PM
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I'd be surprised if you can find what you are looking for. camera T adapters are supposed to have the far end of the adapter a specific distance from the imaging plane. That's why yours has such a long barrel. If the distance from the front flange to the imaging plane is a fixed distance; then any "lens" designed to attach to a T adapter will have a "fixed" back focus. This makes it easy to calibrate the lens with focus distance markings and the manufacturer knows that the lens will work on any camera with its specific T adapter.
You might be able to take your long monster and ship it to one of the machining companies to have them shorten it and put new threads on the far end. Your description of the problem sounds like your scope doesn't have enough back focus to support AP using a camera and a T adapter.
One thing you could try is to remove the mirror assembly and use the collimation screws to move the mirror as far as it will go up the tube. This will increase the back focus at the eyepiece. You may get enough to focus your camera. You will need to collimate the scope after doing this. If this doesn't work; you can try using longer bolts for the collimation screws and locking bolts. Sears Hardware stores are a good place to buy small quantities of both metric and SAE bolts. Collars and washers will also let you use your existing collimation springs.
The main problem with moving the primary mirror is that you may start loosing light from the edges of the primary because the secondary is too small to catch the (larger) light cone as the primary is moved closer to it.
You'll also be limited to relatively short exposures because you have an Alt-Az mount. Imaging with this type of mount quickly shows the effects of using a mount that doesn't have one axis aligned with Earth's axis of rotation.
The easiest imaging technique available to you is afocal imaging. Use your camera, with its lens focused at infinity and attach it to an eyepiece that's accurately focused. I believe that ScopeStuff sells an adapter that attaches to an eyepiece and has male T threads on it. This can be attached to a female T adapter and step up/down rings that end up matching the filter thread of your camera's lens. You can also get camera holders that attach around the focuser and have a 1/4-20 screw to hold the camera at the eyepiece.
You might also be able to use an eyepiece projection adapter and one of your eyepieces to image with your camera without using the camera's lenses. This is usually done to enlarge the image from the scope but the correct choice of eyepiece focal length and distance of the eyepiece's optical center from the imaging sensor can use the eyepiece projection unit as a relay lens to improve back focus. The amount of focuser travel will also effect your ability to do this.
Phil
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clengman
sage
   
Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: Phil Sherman]
#4563552 - 05/05/11 02:37 PM
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Phil - Thanks for that information. The flange to back distance of this camera system is the shortest on the market I believe. That definitely would explain the long-barrel adapter. I was just hoping I might be able to find a different, low-profile adapter that wasn't necessarily designed for t mount camera lenses.
I love it as a visual scope and I'm not prepared to mess with the mirror just to play at photography. I haven't even attempted to collimate it since I received it a little over a month ago. Maybe after I'm more comfortable with the way the mirror adjustments work, I'll try playing around with it a little.
Long-exposure astrophotography is not something I was considering at all at this point. Actually, although I have a mount that was once capable of tracking, the motors are dead at this point so it's all manual for me. Which is just fine for me, I'm enjoying learning how to starhop and I got the scope for cheap, cheap, cheap because it "doesn't work." Field rotation doesn't really come in to play. I was really thinking of using it more to play around with for extra-long-telephoto terrestrial photography, and maybe for moonrise or sunrise pictures, and not so much for astrophotography at all.
I do appreciate the advice. Now I know what to look in to when I'm ready to spend more money or more effort on it. Thanks!
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Mark9473
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: clengman]
#4563781 - 05/05/11 04:41 PM
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Carl, I've noticed Borg have such an adapter, as well as http://www.cncsupplyinc.com/
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Phil Sherman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/07/10
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: Mark9473]
#4564973 - 05/06/11 09:45 AM
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One type of imaging you should have no difficulty doing with your scope is lunar and planetary imaging using a webcam. You can modify an inexpensive one, using an old 35mm film can as the 1.25" adapter or purchase a used astro webcam from the swap area.
Selecting the few best frames from a few second video file, stacking them then processing to bring out details will also give you lots of practice for when you decide to try it with other equipment.
Phil
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clengman
sage
   
Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: Phil Sherman]
#4565549 - 05/06/11 02:51 PM
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Mark - Thanks, I took a look at that one. It looks similar to the one I already tried.
Phil - I may just try that sometime for kicks. Sounds like a fun equipment hack.
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Mark9473
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: clengman]
#4565634 - 05/06/11 03:24 PM
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I don't understand that. Sure the one at cncsupply is probably about 1.5" long but more than 1" of that length disappears into the focusser just like an eyepiece.
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clengman
sage
   
Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: Mark9473]
#4565664 - 05/06/11 03:39 PM
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Mark - The T tube is the part that slides into the focuser. I don't even need that, my focuser already has the necessary threads to attach a T ring.
The T ring is the part that I need that has the bayonet mount to attach my camera. For most camera systems, the T ring is only 1/4" - 3/8" thick, but since my camera is really shallow from the mounting flange to the sensor, the T ring has a much longer barrel. As Phil was saying above, T rings are designed for T mount lenses and not for telescopes. T rings are designed to give a consistent spacing between the rear element of the camera lens and the film/sensor plane of the camera. So if your camera has a long flange to back measurement (most SLRs and DSLRs), the T ring will be short. If you have a short flange to back distance (Sony NEX or micro four thirds cameras) you need a long T ring to bring the lens to focus at the sensor plane.
If you go to cncsupply and scroll down in the menu bar to "T-rings/T-mounts" you can see a picture of the various T rings they carry. The two that are much longer than the others are for the mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras that have a really shallow flange to back distance (NEX and micro four thirds).
Thanks, though. I appreciate that you're interested.
Edited by clengman (05/06/11 03:47 PM)
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Mark9473
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: clengman]
#4565846 - 05/06/11 05:11 PM
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Thanks for the clear explanation of your problem. I would suggest you ask cncsupply. I was looking at their telescope adapters and there's nothing there to suggest those are as long as the camera lens T rings.
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clengman
sage
   
Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: Mark9473]
#4566142 - 05/06/11 08:21 PM
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Mark - You're right. I assumed that their telescope adapter kit was just a T tube with the standard T ring, but maybe they do have a different T ring that comes with the telescope kits. I'll give them a call. Thanks!
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: clengman]
#4566264 - 05/06/11 09:49 PM Attachment (19 downloads)
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Carl,
I hope this explanation would address the reason why the adapter tube is so long:
T2-mount (a.k.a. T-mount in the astro community), is a standard for one group of camera lenses -- the T2 lenses. (Yes, they do exist but are rare). T2 has the thread size of 42mm x 0.75 and the flange-back distance of 55mm.
Of course, some custom job shops can make special adapter that do not follow the true T2 spec. It's just the production volume would justify mass production or not type of question.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
This is a T2 lens (fl=200mm) with T2 -> EOS and EOS -> NEX mount adapters:
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
   
Reged: 07/03/04
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: ccs_hello]
#4566322 - 05/06/11 10:13 PM Attachment (22 downloads)
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Separating them
EOS-T has 11mm thickness (55 - 44)
NEX-EOS has 26mm thickness (44 - 18)
Both adapters together 37mm (55 - 18)
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daniel_h
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/08/08
Loc: VIC, Australia
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: ccs_hello]
#4566376 - 05/06/11 10:51 PM
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I used a OLY OM to micro 4/3 on mine with an om t-ring, I thought i saw one on fleabay , this one looks skinny http://cgi.ebay.com/T-Mount-T-Mount-Micro-4-3-Adapter-Olympus-PEN-E-P1-E-P2-/160411293152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25594215e0
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clengman
sage
   
Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: ccs_hello]
#4566382 - 05/06/11 10:54 PM
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Yup, kind of like I was saying above. Before I got my scope I was considering getting an 800mm catadioptric lens for my camera. Most of those are T2 (formerly T, I'm not exactly sure what the difference is) mount. Now the photography bug has been supplanted by the astronomy bug. 
Thought I might be able to kill two birds with one stone if I could find the right adapter, but it looks like I'll either need a custom adapter or I'll need to make some modifications to my scope that I'm not really keen to attempt at this point. Thanks for the info!
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clengman
sage
   
Reged: 03/04/11
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: T Ring for micro four thirds camera
[Re: clengman]
#4566393 - 05/06/11 11:04 PM
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I'm kicking myself now. I was thinking about it a little more and I'm pretty sure the T ring would have fit inside my focuser draw tube. I could have used it but I just stuck in the mail yesterday morning to return it. 
Oh well... I'll try it again another time. I think maybe after all that I'd rather just have the money back in my toy budget.
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