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macona
super member
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4623527 - 06/06/11 01:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Not completely necessary. It speeds things up to be able to take a dark field right after the shot. Also continuing to expose while doing a readout can cause some issues on a full frame sensor like what's in these cameras.

One possibly solution would be to use a filter wheel with a opaque filler and move to that position when you read out. I have a feeling the shutters are pretty spendy.




From my experience with the RS Image software, it appears to work as Maxim DL and Nebulosity does with my starshoot, you command the cam to do a 180 sec exposure via the software and it exposes for 180 seconds and turns off (goes into non image stand by) waiting for another exposure command. Sequential frames can also be taken with specifide pauses in between. Isin't this routine somewhat of a eletronic shutter? Again please correct me if I am wrong. I also thought of a filter blank but the way the software commands the cam it seems like a shutter will not be necessary.

Sorry if it seems as if I am trying to cheap out but my budget "is" limited. Also if the software is providing the necessary utility functions, we are good to go, right?




There are several different kinds of sensors. The ones in these camera are full frame sensor. Ideally the way you work them is you open the shutter, expose, close the shutter, and readout. CCD's read out one line at a time shifting the charge over to the next as you read out. If you do this without a shutter light is still charging the pixels and will add add charge to a pixel charge that might have seen very little light. Though this might have very little effect on our use since we are dealing with very little light to begin with. Interline CCDs have a small portion of each pixel dedicated to storing the charge so they are unaffected by light on the sensor during readout. Frame transfer CCDs have double the silicon that transfers the charge and is protected by an aluminized layer.

It ought to be not too hard to build a driver. Use a small stepper to run the wheel, a sensor to home, and a small stepper driver board. This will give step and direction control to the filter wheel. Then use something like a Teensy board (http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/) running arduino to translate ascom commands through serial or USB. I hate to use steppers but its the simplest thing here and since there is virtually no load there shouldnt be any issues.

Now the only problem using a blanked off section of a filter wheel is that you would be passing through other filters before you get back to black. But again with low light this may not be a problem. But if you are imaging more luminous objects it might be.

So, another option is to use something like a rotary solenoid to move the shutter into position between the filter wheel and the sensor. For that matter you could even do it with something like a rc servo.


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macona
super member
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4623549 - 06/06/11 02:08 AM

Quote:

If my last post helps the shutter issue, I have another question. When I removed the threaded lens that came with the unit and tried to screw in my 2 inch camera adapter (normally screws in the canon bayonet adapter) that will connect to a wheel or slide, I found that the cam snout is too large. My 2 inch threaded camera adapter is to small and another adapter will be necessary to reduce the Quantix snout to accomodate the 2 inch scope/filter adapter. Has anyone found a solution to this yet?




Hopefully I will get mint tomorrow and I can come up with a couple solutions. One may be to machine a standard 42mm camera lens mount. Though my Monarch does not have metric threading so I would probably have to set it up on my CNC lathe.

Another option is to bore out the plate on the lathe to accept a Canon EOS to Nikon adapter and epoxy or screw it in place. I would have to figure out something for the locking mechanism.


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gatsbyiv
sage


Reged: 03/29/09

Loc: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4623944 - 06/06/11 10:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

If my last post helps the shutter issue, I have another question. When I removed the threaded lens that came with the unit and tried to screw in my 2 inch camera adapter (normally screws in the canon bayonet adapter) that will connect to a wheel or slide, I found that the cam snout is too large. My 2 inch threaded camera adapter is to small and another adapter will be necessary to reduce the Quantix snout to accomodate the 2 inch scope/filter adapter. Has anyone found a solution to this yet?




Hopefully I will get mint tomorrow and I can come up with a couple solutions. One may be to machine a standard 42mm camera lens mount. Though my Monarch does not have metric threading so I would probably have to set it up on my CNC lathe.

Another option is to bore out the plate on the lathe to accept a Canon EOS to Nikon adapter and epoxy or screw it in place. I would have to figure out something for the locking mechanism.




I thought these were supposed to be standard Nikon F mounts? Can we not just use a Nikon T-ring?


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gatsbyiv]
      #4624100 - 06/06/11 11:55 AM

As you can see by gnabgibs pics the window is near flush with the mounting plate. No where did the seller say this was a c mount camera. I looked at the c mount configuration and it appears the c mount configuration is the one that has the shutter assembly installed. We do not have this camera. It appears the ones we purchased were used in a different configuration/application. So no c-mount and no shutter (buyer beware!!!!!). I will look again when I get home but I doubt you could screw an adapter in the current plate, have it carry the weight and not break the crystal you see in gnabgibs pics.

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gnabgib
sage
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Reged: 06/05/05

Loc: Fall River MIlls Ca.
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4624508 - 06/06/11 02:36 PM

DON'T PANIC!!
Great words to live by!! Yes it seems the cameras are a somewhat ""custom" adaption of a commercial unit BUT they are only missing the front shutter housing! Everything else about them is standard. The front housing for the ccd sensor is VERY robust and can support the entire camera using either of the two sets of mounting holes! I have two ideas to help us all get started toward mounting these cameras on our telescopes.
1) Machine a new mounting plate that has the standard "t" thread in the center and bolts to the front using the same screws that originally attached the lens unit that came with our cameras. This is relatively easy and would get us up and running quickly. I am a mechanical engineer who is also a machinist so I could do this for the cloudynights members who bought one of these cameras. I just am "out of the shop" until next week so I could not make these plates until then.
2) In the longer run I want to have a shutter so I propose we try to find a source of surplus shutters that will work with these cameras. Once a source is found a housing to mount them on the camera can be designed and fabricated.
I personally do not have very "deep pockets" so this camera represents an opportunity to acquire a piece of equipment I could otherwise never afford! I am willing to put a little effort into making it work with my observing gear.

My .02 worth. Anyone else with ideas "lets hear them"!

Kevin


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gnabgib
sage
*****

Reged: 06/05/05

Loc: Fall River MIlls Ca.
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4624518 - 06/06/11 02:40 PM

Macona;
I LIKE the rotary solenoid idea! This could be the answer to an inexpensive shutter.

Kevin


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macona
super member
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4624619 - 06/06/11 03:26 PM

What I may do is make up a small ring and attach one of these standard F-mount rings:

http://www.adorama.com/NKK3.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase

This is the identical ring on my redlake. This will make swapping cameras and general assembly so much easier. And every time you screw/unscrew aluminum threads microscopic flakes come off so I would rather avoid that.

For the rotary shutter it may be best to isolate the signal coming from the internal shutter supply. A zener diode and an optoisolator would do nicely. Use the output from that to drive a transistor to run the rotary solenoid. Dont forget a snubber diode to kill the inductive pulse when you release the solenoid.


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4624626 - 06/06/11 03:28 PM

What a great community! Sounds like we are all aspiring to put together a system we would not otherwise be able to afford. I will do my part in researching solutions to the various issues. Many thanks to my skilled astronomy colleagues and their generous offerings. I have been searching for more portable solutions for my set up than a pc build (I too can mod one of my old pcs but this limits portability). I have to set up and tear down during my sessions so I am looking to making that process as painless as possible. The pc box is fine for those of us that have a yard or observatory we can work with. Unfortunately that limits portability to a dark site without sufficient power. I was considering this gamer vid card expansion for the laptop to keep it portable. http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki-index.php?page=ViDock
Still coming in around the 200 dollar mark, it is better than the Magma price, this solution is a toss-up between the dock station laptop and the expansion card from a cost perspective. Perhaps it is doable for some members working on this project. Still looking for a surplus shutter solution.


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4624673 - 06/06/11 03:49 PM

Here is a link with close up view of the c mount shutter assembly if it helps.
http://www.artisan-scientific.com/67598.htm


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gatsbyiv
sage


Reged: 03/29/09

Loc: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4624853 - 06/06/11 05:54 PM

Quote:


1) Machine a new mounting plate that has the standard "t" thread in the center and bolts to the front using the same screws that originally attached the lens unit that came with our cameras. This is relatively easy and would get us up and running quickly. I am a mechanical engineer who is also a machinist so I could do this for the cloudynights members who bought one of these cameras. I just am "out of the shop" until next week so I could not make these plates until then.





Thanks for this offer, Kevin. I am more than happy to support you on this, and to compensate you appropriately as well. I'm disappointed that we're getting custom versions of this camera without a proper mount, because custom machined solutions are invariably expensive. But it certainly helps to have you with us as a machinist, and we appreciate it!


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macona
super member
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4624886 - 06/06/11 06:16 PM

Quote:

What a great community! Sounds like we are all aspiring to put together a system we would not otherwise be able to afford. I will do my part in researching solutions to the various issues. Many thanks to my skilled astronomy colleagues and their generous offerings. I have been searching for more portable solutions for my set up than a pc build (I too can mod one of my old pcs but this limits portability). I have to set up and tear down during my sessions so I am looking to making that process as painless as possible. The pc box is fine for those of us that have a yard or observatory we can work with. Unfortunately that limits portability to a dark site without sufficient power. I was considering this gamer vid card expansion for the laptop to keep it portable. http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki-index.php?page=ViDock
Still coming in around the 200 dollar mark, it is better than the Magma price, this solution is a toss-up between the dock station laptop and the expansion card from a cost perspective. Perhaps it is doable for some members working on this project. Still looking for a surplus shutter solution.




Hate to break it to you but that expansion box is PCIe, not PCI.


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macona
super member
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gatsbyiv]
      #4624897 - 06/06/11 06:24 PM

I also have a machine shop at home. Some old pics here. I had added more, surface grinder, small cnc lathe. Also currently building a small laser cutter.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/member-shop-photos/my-mess-124998/

http://www.buildlog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=264


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gnabgib
sage
*****

Reged: 06/05/05

Loc: Fall River MIlls Ca.
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4624961 - 06/06/11 07:04 PM

gatsbyiv;
Yeah I am a little disappointed in the "custom" nature of these cameras also but with a little effort this to can be overcome! I am not going to charge to make the t adapter rings just will ask to be reimbursed for the shipping. Those who want one need to let me know so I can plan on how many to make. When they are ready I will ask for a shipping address. Keep in mind this will not happen till the end of next week so be patient and we can solve each others problems and needs. AS we come up with a "shutter" solution appropriate housings can be designed and built. One problem at a time and before we know it we will have some really nice equipment with minimal cost.

So if you want a ring pm me with a "I want one" and I will take it from there.

Kevin


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macona
super member
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4625033 - 06/06/11 07:51 PM

Cant see disappointment over that. We got what was probably a $20,000 camera for $500.

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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4625159 - 06/06/11 09:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What a great community! Sounds like we are all aspiring to put together a system we would not otherwise be able to afford. I will do my part in researching solutions to the various issues. Many thanks to my skilled astronomy colleagues and their generous offerings. I have been searching for more portable solutions for my set up than a pc build (I too can mod one of my old pcs but this limits portability). I have to set up and tear down during my sessions so I am looking to making that process as painless as possible. The pc box is fine for those of us that have a yard or observatory we can work with. Unfortunately that limits portability to a dark site without sufficient power. I was considering this gamer vid card expansion for the laptop to keep it portable. http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki-index.php?page=ViDock
Still coming in around the 200 dollar mark, it is better than the Magma price, this solution is a toss-up between the dock station laptop and the expansion card from a cost perspective. Perhaps it is doable for some members working on this project. Still looking for a surplus shutter solution.




Hate to break it to you but that expansion box is PCIe, not PCI.




Yep, right you are but Fortunately computer electronics have quick and dirty solutions + modify, modify, modify. It seems to be our current theme. As long as it works. A taller box will be easy compared to some of the things it looks as if we will attempt.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=pcie+to+pci+adapter&cp=12&biw=1131&bih=641&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tljp1307407454656010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8857577279662290578&sa=X&ei=b3TtTc3AK8ySgQf868nYCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQ8wIwAA#
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=pcie+to+pci+adapter&cp=12&biw=1131&bih=641&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tljp1307407454656010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16736437348983536192&sa=X&ei=b3TtTc3AK8ySgQf868nYCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD4Q8wIwAg#


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gnabgib]
      #4625187 - 06/06/11 09:28 PM

Quote:

DON'T PANIC!!
Great words to live by!! Yes it seems the cameras are a somewhat ""custom" adaption of a commercial unit BUT they are only missing the front shutter housing! Everything else about them is standard. The front housing for the ccd sensor is VERY robust and can support the entire camera using either of the two sets of mounting holes! I have two ideas to help us all get started toward mounting these cameras on our telescopes.
1) Machine a new mounting plate that has the standard "t" thread in the center and bolts to the front using the same screws that originally attached the lens unit that came with our cameras. This is relatively easy and would get us up and running quickly. I am a mechanical engineer who is also a machinist so I could do this for the cloudynights members who bought one of these cameras. I just am "out of the shop" until next week so I could not make these plates until then.
2) In the longer run I want to have a shutter so I propose we try to find a source of surplus shutters that will work with these cameras. Once a source is found a housing to mount them on the camera can be designed and fabricated.
I personally do not have very "deep pockets" so this camera represents an opportunity to acquire a piece of equipment I could otherwise never afford! I am willing to put a little effort into making it work with my observing gear.

My .02 worth. Anyone else with ideas "lets hear them"!

Kevin




Another question; will a 35mm camera shutter like this work and can the machined faceplate be notched to accommodate this type pf inexpensive shutter and the Quantix circuit used to actuate it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320700562901&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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kw6562
Authoritative Ignoramus
*****

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4625274 - 06/06/11 10:17 PM Attachment (44 downloads)

Quote:


Another option is to bore out the plate on the lathe to accept a Canon EOS to Nikon adapter and epoxy or screw it in place.




I just came home from work...Omigod this thing is HUGE!

I took the flange off and I'm going to bore it out accept a T-thread ring from a Nikon adapter. The ring is normally held in place by three set screws and as it turns out there are 3 screws on the flange so that if I bore it to the correct depth the screws should engage the lip of the ring. But to be honest I'm probably going to epoxy it place for insurance anyway.

Once I've got a thread I can work with then I'll start looking at a filter wheel and a shutter. I'm going to buy this link and see if it might work; its diameter is adequate but it may need a driver circuit.

Mine came with a 10 ft. cord which will get me started; I need a 30 ft. - has anyone bought one with the correct SCSI connector?

Wow this thing is HUGE!

--Keith


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kw6562
Authoritative Ignoramus
*****

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4625279 - 06/06/11 10:19 PM

Oh, and if the flange mod works I would be happy to do it for others...I use a shop at work and I'm really just a hacker machinist but I can manage something like this for friends --Keith

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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4625340 - 06/06/11 11:04 PM

Hi Keith,

Your flange is different than mine. I will try and get pics up later. Interested in seeing how it turns out.


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macona
super member
*****

Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4625613 - 06/07/11 04:19 AM

Mine didnt show up today....

But this did....

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4625610/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1


Meade LX200 Classic 10" Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope by macona, on Flickr


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