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macona
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gatsbyiv]
      #4634673 - 06/11/11 09:44 PM

A Nikon F mount it a bayonet mount. The threads on the camera are larger than a standard T2 threaded mount.

This is what a F mount looks like, on my Redlake:


IMG_0486 by macona, on Flickr


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macona
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4634677 - 06/11/11 09:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What a great community! Sounds like we are all aspiring to put together a system we would not otherwise be able to afford. I will do my part in researching solutions to the various issues. Many thanks to my skilled astronomy colleagues and their generous offerings. I have been searching for more portable solutions for my set up than a pc build (I too can mod one of my old pc’s but this limits portability). I have to set up and tear down during my sessions so I am looking to making that process as painless as possible. The pc box is fine for those of us that have a yard or observatory we can work with. Unfortunately that limits portability to a dark site without sufficient power. I was considering this gamer vid card expansion for the laptop to keep it portable. http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki-index.php?page=ViDock
Still coming in around the 200 dollar mark, it is better than the Magma price, this solution is a toss-up between the dock station laptop and the expansion card from a cost perspective. Perhaps it is doable for some members working on this project. Still looking for a surplus shutter solution.




the one we need would be ViDock 4 Plus ($279) ? we can't use half size or express PSI that most dock stations are equiped with ? still "somewhat pricey" but better than 1K from magma, assuming its a right size




Again, the Vidock is PCIe, not PCI. Totally incompatible.


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gatsbyiv
sage


Reged: 03/29/09

Loc: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4634741 - 06/11/11 10:45 PM

Quote:

A Nikon F mount it a bayonet mount. The threads on the camera are larger than a standard T2 threaded mount.





Thanks for clarifying. Hope overcame reason for me. Bayonet != threads.

Where did we arrive on the best solution for mounting now that shutters are involved? Did Keith and Kevin bore out the nose and fix a t-ring in there?


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: gatsbyiv]
      #4634883 - 06/12/11 12:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A Nikon F mount it a bayonet mount. The threads on the camera are larger than a standard T2 threaded mount.





Thanks for clarifying. Hope overcame reason for me. Bayonet != threads.

Where did we arrive on the best solution for mounting now that shutters are involved? Did Keith and Kevin bore out the nose and fix a t-ring in there?




Yep. Kevin has mine in his machine now.


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4634954 - 06/12/11 01:41 AM

Quote:

Ok, after doing some search on the net I came to the following conclusion (correct me if I am wrong , because I very much want to be wrong) this camera is suited only for permanent setup observatory that has desktop or it's alternative avalable. I don't see any of us shelling $1000 for magma adapter or carrying "portable desktop/monitor/spare
12V battery out in the field...I also can't envision how an old "network
sniffer" or its alternative is going to be happy with other astroimaging
applications that usually have to run at the same time during imaging session on the laptop (mount guiding etc.)

so I guess this takes this camera out of most important DSO astroimaging factor: going to the dark site..

Once again please let us know if you found reasonably priced and portable solution to the dreaded PCI

shurik




My son dropped by today for a visit, he designs and builds computer systems for gov and industry. He is also a fellow amateur astronomer. I ran our portability issue by him. First he laughed and said we don’t pick easy projects. He does agree we made a score with the cams.

As far as a laptop solution go’s he stated that he is currently working on designing a vid card interface like the ViDock for the gov. He said Magma is a direct competitor of the company he works for and any solution like magma or Vidock will be pricey. He said the Star Tech X1 pcie to pci converter would probably work in the vidock at x1 speed but there will not be enough head room in the Vidock to accommodate the riser. You would have to modify the case. (mo money) Said too bad as Vidock is cheap for what it does. After spending the 250-300 hundred to mod the Vidock, the other solutions may be just as good.

He also said the mini itx solution that macona (Jerry) offered earlier was a better solution and probably the best way to go for a portable solution. He states by using a low power/low wattage board like this http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=354328&CatId=7174
And a power supply like this http://igowarehouse.amazonwebstore.com/Pico-PSU120-12V-120Watt-DcDC-ATX/M/B0045KGQFE.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle
Coupled with a low power monitor will enable a cigarette lighter type power converter and power tank to be used to run the system in the field.

He also stated that the other solution that Jerry offered in the Dolch Pac 65 is close to what is really needed. Perhaps the ITX configured in a similar fashion.
As it stands right now a laptop “may” not be able to be cheaply worked in and you “may” be right. If anybody comes up with a lap top solution please let us know. I will continue to research that as time allows.

So Jerry, “congrats” On good suggestions you are tracking hot, straight and true.


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4634973 - 06/12/11 02:15 AM

On the shutter end of the spectrum I received my Ilex today. Really nice! I think more will be coming on configuring those.

I also worked on the ROLLEI 35MM shutter today. Come to find out the solenoid actuator was nothing more than a lock actuator, so I will be able to remove the offending device. This will lower the profile of the shutter and allow for another actuator to be installed. Seeing how I own the crazy thing now, I am thinking of toying with the previously posted idea of using a RC servo to actuate the shutter if I can dig one up that functions at the voltage supplied by the camera circuit and small enough to fit in a modified housing.


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jsigone
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/27/08

Loc: Escondido--> San Diego, CA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4634988 - 06/12/11 02:48 AM

The Dolch Pac 65 seems like the older version/non rugged to the ACME portable units I showed you(2-4K). Problem with those is the monitor res was design around the PII chips in them so maybe 800x600 screen res. And might even use the keyboard connector before the PS2 design. IMO you can build a similar rig with the mITX (pci slot version) I linked you. Here is a nice case I got from frys and comes w/ the PS for $40
http://www.frys.com/product/6145869?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Use it to build your own portible by mounting a small LCD to the side panel via tilting bracket. Attached is what I'd build, you can save about $30 if you use a normal 2.5" laptop 160GB drive. But due to the portable design, small HD platters might get damaged from travel and "other" mishaps. The SSD are getting stupid cheap right now and I'd recommend those, just back up your data more often as if they crash they crash. I've seen them in the $50 range but sometimes w/ rebates and those suck to wait for.

Add that $40 case,keyboard,mouse and windows OS and your set. You can also drill in holes to mount a carry handle you can get from the hard ware store. For field use,you might need a 12v power inverter to run between the gear and the battery pack


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: jsigone]
      #4635448 - 06/12/11 12:00 PM

And there ya go, all for ~300 USD. ~ the same as we have been talking to get a laptop in the loop. Looks like the way to go.

Thanks for sharing! (Thats ma boy!)


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shurik
super member


Reged: 10/07/07

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: sullij1]
      #4635620 - 06/12/11 01:38 PM

Ok so can we please clarify: vDock has 3 versions of the unit Macona said they are PCIe and will not work (and I agree) because interface is different and that can not be modified, on the othe hand if it is only a physical dimension of the case, that one I can modify and have no problem of doing that, rather than building "portable" "mini" computer for the same money. I think both directions will be fine but the "hot" one will be the one like with all astro-gear that is used the most.

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jsigone
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/27/08

Loc: Escondido--> San Diego, CA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4635730 - 06/12/11 02:48 PM

if the add in card was only pcie this would be slam dunk with the Vdock setup. That is pretty darn cheap! The version my company sells, One Stop Systems sells is about 4x that price. My dad did show me a pci to x1 pcie adapter, $60. This would raise the add in card a good inch which the Vdock case doesnt have. I'm sure this would work but not sure how clean the data transfer thru the adapter. Overcable products are done 2 ways. one is using a redriver chip in the laptop adaptr and expansion box. This is passive to the OS. Another way is by putting switch chips on both end, which would be detected by the OS. This is more expensive route so I doubt the Vdock uses this method. Over cable technologies is not compatable with every computer out there. Limiting factor is the bios of the host system, has to do with the timing clocks and IO. Adding the pci to pcie adds another pc to the puzzle. Long story short, u can get the Vdock, adapter, find a larger case only to find it doesn't work with your laptop given you do have an express card port. And if it does work I'm not sure what type of noise can be added going through the camera's scsi cable to the box thru a copper x1 cable to the laptop. When I get to the office tomorrow, I'll see what adapter i have or backplane we have that have a pci connector. The ones i know have a pciX connector and not exactly the same. These backplanes have a x4 cable port and we only have x1 laptop adapter with x1 to x4 cables.

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shurik
super member


Reged: 10/07/07

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: jsigone]
      #4635835 - 06/12/11 04:12 PM

Well this is the route I was planing to go:

PCI-->PCI/PCIe adapter (cost $30-$60)--> PCIe expansion/enclosure chassis... enclosure might need to be modified to fit (vidock, etc. cost ~$230)--> express card port on laptop...a million $$ question is would this scheme work ??

I think I figured why external PCI card enclosures (USB or PCMCIA compatible) are not that popular or hard to find: band width required by monster PCI video cards (who would be the main market for laptop gamers) can not be easily translated to conventional laptop external ports


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macona
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: jsigone]
      #4635843 - 06/12/11 04:18 PM

The Vidock connects to a laptop through ExpressCard, which is basically a 1x PCIe slot, one of the reasons they are cheap.

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macona
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Reged: 05/18/11

Loc: Beaverton, OR
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: macona]
      #4635945 - 06/12/11 05:40 PM

Spent some time with the mini-itx board today. Uninstalled the PVCAM and roper software, upgraded to XP SP3, reinstalled everything and it works. Seems just as fast was the other machine which was a 3+ghz P4. Its a 1GHz Via C7 motherboard.

Now to get a case. I do have a 12V ATX power supply but it may be too small.


IMG_0515 by macona, on Flickr


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jsigone
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/27/08

Loc: Escondido--> San Diego, CA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: shurik]
      #4636094 - 06/12/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

Well this is the route I was planing to go:

PCI-->PCI/PCIe adapter (cost $30-$60)--> PCIe expansion/enclosure chassis... enclosure might need to be modified to fit (vidock, etc. cost ~$230)--> express card port on laptop...a million $$ question is would this scheme work ??

I think I figured why external PCI card enclosures (USB or PCMCIA compatible) are not that popular or hard to find: band width required by monster PCI video cards (who would be the main market for laptop gamers) can not be easily translated to conventional laptop external ports




yes should work. Once you have the parts or want to guesstimate the height needed, a Hammond case would fit this build pretty nice. You'd have to demel out the cutout and insulate the electronics from metal.

http://www.hammondmfg.com/1457EMI_RFI.htm

Sold through DigiKey for $10-30 pending size and water seal.


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sullij1
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/08/08

Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: jsigone]
      #4636379 - 06/12/11 11:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well this is the route I was planing to go:

PCI-->PCI/PCIe adapter (cost $30-$60)--> PCIe expansion/enclosure chassis... enclosure might need to be modified to fit (vidock, etc. cost ~$230)--> express card port on laptop...a million $$ question is would this scheme work ??

I think I figured why external PCI card enclosures (USB or PCMCIA compatible) are not that popular or hard to find: band width required by monster PCI video cards (who would be the main market for laptop gamers) can not be easily translated to conventional laptop external ports




yes should work. Once you have the parts or want to guesstimate the height needed, a Hammond case would fit this build pretty nice. You'd have to demel out the cutout and insulate the electronics from metal.

http://www.hammondmfg.com/1457EMI_RFI.htm

Sold through DigiKey for $10-30 pending size and water seal.




This was the way I was planning to go but the ITX setup is sweet too. Fortunately I have to work for the loot for either one- so I will have time to think about what will really work best for me. No big, I can run from an old PC for now. I hope the discussion on these solutions help others make the same decision.

Shurik, let us know how this works out for you if you pursue it. It helps everyone in the end.


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kw6562
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: jsigone]
      #4636380 - 06/12/11 11:49 PM Attachment (54 downloads)

Today I worked on installing the Prontor shutter that I bought from Surplus Shed. (Its also available on Ebay for a few dollars cheaper, as Sullij noted; either way its a bargain as it is a ~$500 shutter for ~$50.) No problem with the shutter circuit, it is the right voltage and can supply enough current to actuate the solenoid - tried it out with no issues. So I've been trying to integrate it with the flange, and I've done as much as can at home (I need to use a milling machine and lathe at work to finish).

This is the shutter removed from its mounting flange and with the switch removed:


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kw6562
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4636386 - 06/12/11 11:51 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

Solenoid removed (if anyone tries this route please PM me as I took several pix of the sutter assembly that might be useful):

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kw6562
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4636399 - 06/12/11 11:58 PM Attachment (53 downloads)

I drilled a hole in the camera flange to accommodate the linkage piece that connects the shutter actuator pin to the solenoid shaft - the solenoid will be mounted on the flange but should be low enough so that it will not interfere with any component that is attached to the camera mount (I hope). I also cut four notches in the shutter body for clearance for the flange mounting bolts. This is the shutter and linkage temporarily mounted between the flange and the camera:

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kw6562
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4636401 - 06/12/11 11:58 PM Attachment (47 downloads)

And this is what it looks like opened:

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kw6562
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Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: MA
Re: QUANTIX HELP......... new [Re: kw6562]
      #4636404 - 06/13/11 12:01 AM

Again, if this works I'll be happy to supply more detail to anyone who is interested. --Keith

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