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Maverick199
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Re: Jupiter October 22 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5484975 - 10/23/12 10:03 AM

Thanks Peter. Parts of the skies that were visible showed good stars but a thin haze was spreading.

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Skip
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Re: Jupiter October 22 new [Re: Maverick199]
      #5485309 - 10/23/12 01:40 PM

Hi Haseeb,

Very nice wide field of M42 buddy!


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milby
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Re:M33 new [Re: Skip]
      #5485529 - 10/23/12 03:53 PM

Another outstanding job with my humble M33, Tel. Much more dramatic. It's a marvelous object to observe.

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Tel
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Re:M33 new [Re: milby]
      #5485881 - 10/23/12 07:06 PM

Not humble but outstanding, Milby !

I only wish I could have submitted your M33 capture to the UK magazine about which I spoke. I'm certain it would have qualifies ahead of the same object it published as "Picture of the Month".

You could of course submit it to one of your US magazines for publication if yours accept images on a light competetive basis in much the same manner as ours do.

If so, I'm sure you'd stand a good chance of seeing it in print !

Best regards,
Tel


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Tel
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Re:M33 new [Re: Tel]
      #5485907 - 10/23/12 07:28 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Hi Haseeb,

Another fine wide field image ! Many congratulations.

I share your concern though, regarding the banding or light gradient within the image's background.

With such in mind,---- (and you'd have to refresh my memory on what processing software you are using) ---- there is a "dirty" technique which P/Shop offers to reduce this unwanted nuisance, and which although I find a wee bit tricky to apply, (trial and error); with patience, can be reasonably effective, (see attached).

I'm afraid I could do nothing with the somewhat "blown out" core of the nebula, but at the same time as working on the gradient, I think a little more of the filaments and the "Running Man" have come to the fore.

I'd be most interested to know what you think.

Best regards,
Tel


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Maverick199
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Re:M33 new [Re: Tel]
      #5486411 - 10/24/12 02:35 AM

Thanks Skip!

Hi Tel and thank you once again for an excellent enhancement of my image.

I use first Photoshop Elements 9 and Noel Carboni's astronomy tools. I then take the image for further curves / levels at PaintshopPro X4.

I am not good with layers and I therefore fail to take shorter exposures of the 'core' to merge them later on.

Do you think the vertical streaks are caused by mismatched dark frames as pfile from the Imaging forums suggested or due to haze and being partly cloudy.


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Tel
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Re:M33 new [Re: Maverick199]
      #5486518 - 10/24/12 06:09 AM Attachment (17 downloads)

Hi Haseeb,

It's difficult to advise how you might make improvements to your images when I have no hands-on experience of the processing software you are using or the features contained within them.

Suffice to say though, that as far as that striation you witness in your images is concerned, Alex Post raised this issue some time ago with regard to its appearance in his own images. I remember he called it "The window blind or louvred door effect", (or something similar), but whether he came to any conclusions as to its nature and/or solved what he perceived to be a problem, I admit, I lost touch with. Perhaps you might drop him a line ?

Based on your recent M42 image though, my own view is that such striation is far less significant to the detriment of the picture, --- (and can be removed or at least masked), --- than is the prominent light gradient running from left to right, (light cyan to light magenta in the attached), and the "holes" (pixel defficiency) on the right hand side of the image.

These, --- (I think ?) --- I overcame by use of the "Gradient Map" in P/Shop CS2 and the P/Shop Plug-In "Xmagic Denoiser". Whether these are/can be made available in P/Shop Elements 9 I don't know.

I re-emphasise that I'm in no way qualified to speak on the technicalities of digital imaging and cannot advise you specifically as to what to do to remove these unwanted artefacts for the above reasons. What I have learned of processing has largely been by trial and error and asking around. I can only recommend you do the same. If you do, I guarantee the practice will pay off !

Investment in a good camera, scope and mount is paramount to achieving success in this field but equally, a good processing "kit" should not be forgotten.

Best regards,
Tel


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Tel
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Re:M33 new [Re: Tel]
      #5486522 - 10/24/12 06:14 AM Attachment (18 downloads)

And "treated" with Xmagic Denoiser.

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Maverick199
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Re:M33 new [Re: Tel]
      #5486635 - 10/24/12 08:27 AM

Thank you Tel! I have the X denoiser as plug in for photoshop and perhaps use that feature in future. Anyway, I will drop a line to Alex Post to check if he indeed came up with a solution and post that here for reference.

I could have got the autoguider to expose for longer durations but seeing how my subs come out looking 'whitish' after more than a minutes worth of exposing put me off. Guess I need to just stick to the bare minimums and stack as many images as possible and ensure to take proper darks to minimize this effect. But northeast monsoon has set in and I would be lucky to have a couple of hours in between.

You definitely do a great job at processing and I hope one day I learn them enough to come close to what you do.

Msg sent to Alex Post, hopefully he has a remedy.

Edited by Maverick199 (10/24/12 08:33 AM)


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Skip
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Re:M33 new [Re: Maverick199]
      #5486984 - 10/24/12 01:05 PM

Haseeb,

This is almost surely a color gradient problem. There is another PS plug-in called GradientXTerminator by RC Astro. I had it on a 30-day trial which has expired and I have not yet purchased it. But you can get it by using Google, and search on gradientxterminator. You could get the free 30-day trial too. Problem is - I'm not certain it will work with Elements. But what the heck - it's free so give it a try. If this problem IS a color gradient, GX will take it out of there slick as a whistle!


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Maverick199
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Re:M33 new [Re: Skip]
      #5488077 - 10/25/12 05:44 AM Attachment (15 downloads)

Hi Skip, looks worth a try. I will check that out.

Skip, got the trial version and here's the result. Simple as a click. Thanks.

Edited by Maverick199 (10/25/12 10:00 AM)


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Skip
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Re:M33 new [Re: Maverick199]
      #5488753 - 10/25/12 02:36 PM

Looks good, Haseeb. Probably worth the 50 bucks if you decide to buy.

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MushroomBill
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Re:M33 new [Re: Skip]
      #5488812 - 10/25/12 03:13 PM

Have you tried processing without Carboni's tools? Might be worth a go as I'm sure they introduce that slightly speckled/noisy look. I have used Carboni's tools in PS Elements and had found a similar effect introduced.

Great picture though - so please don't think I'm criticising.


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Maverick199
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Re:M33 new [Re: MushroomBill]
      #5489715 - 10/26/12 05:38 AM

Hi Skip, thanks I would eventually buy that.

Hi Bill, not at all! I find by using certain actions with NC those streaks get pronounced, like colour gradient for eg., I use NC for certain actions like applying artificial flats or removing halo around large stars. Thanks.


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Skip
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Re:M33 [Re: MushroomBill]
      #5490260 - 10/26/12 01:37 PM

I would give a big +1 on Bill's comment concerning Carboni's Tools. Noel Carboni has managed to but his Photoshop Guru's brain into the tools. It automates many long and tedious PS steps and the results are sometimes pretty amazing. And this set of PS plug-ins is only $22.

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hopskipson
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Re:M33 [Re: Skip]
      #5490697 - 10/26/12 06:42 PM

I have a question for the collective. How come whenever I try to stack RAW frames in DSS I get very limited results, but when I convert the files to jpegs and then stack the results are more detailed? I've tried this on a number of short 35 second by 10 exposures. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a secret setting I don't know about or is this the norm? Thanks for any help.

James


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Tel
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Re:M33 [Re: hopskipson]
      #5491246 - 10/27/12 07:17 AM

Hi James,

I don't think I can help a lot here as I have never used DSS. However, despite not knowing exactly what you mean when you describe, "limited results", can I guess that you're perhaps referring to excessively dark images ?

If so, DSS's FAQ section on stacking states the following:

Quote:

Question: "My resulting image is very dark. Is it normal" ?

Answer: "RAW images are very dark and stacking them creates a very dark resulting image. To view the details in the image, the histogram must be stretched by adjusting the RGB and Luminance levels in the processing tab".

Unquote

If it's any consolation, this is exactly what happens to my RAW frames when initially stacked in my preferred "Nebulosity 2" software. It's thus merely a small task from there to bring out the basic detail. Having done this, I then finish major processing in Photoshop.

Does this perhaps match that which you are seeing ?

Best regards,
Tel


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hopskipson
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Reged: 06/24/10

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Re:M33 [Re: Tel]
      #5491705 - 10/27/12 01:20 PM

I guess so, Tel. I will try stretching some of the stacked images I've collected. Thanks for the response.

James


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Maverick199
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Re:M33 [Re: hopskipson]
      #5491724 - 10/27/12 01:36 PM

Quote:

I have a question for the collective. How come whenever I try to stack RAW frames in DSS I get very limited results, but when I convert the files to jpegs and then stack the results are more detailed? I've tried this on a number of short 35 second by 10 exposures. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a secret setting I don't know about or is this the norm? Thanks for any help.

James




Jpg's are more or less processed images and they will appear lighter if stacked as against Raw files which needs stretching. You can check the "Stacking Parameters" as well as "Recommended settings" before you start to Register and stack. After stacking, the R/G/B lines can be converged, darkened, lightened as you wish and you can see the result on the screen. In any case, even if it comes out 'dark', you can use PS to stretch as well as auto levels to bring out the image to process. Generally, a bit of 'crop' can have some dramatic results whilst processing in PSE.


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Arthur Dent
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Re:M33 [Re: hopskipson]
      #5491750 - 10/27/12 01:54 PM

Quote:

I have a question for the collective. How come whenever I try to stack RAW frames in DSS I get very limited results, but when I convert the files to jpegs and then stack the results are more detailed? I've tried this on a number of short 35 second by 10 exposures. Am I doing something wrong? Is there a secret setting I don't know about or is this the norm? Thanks for any help.

James



You know that 'Persistence is futile'?

(sorry - coudn't resist)

Art


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