deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Flowing water on Mars confirmed
#4956893 - 12/08/11 02:23 PM
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http://news.discovery.com/space/mars-water-mineral-rover-111208.html
http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Mars_Opportunity_Rover_Finds_Rich_Vein_Of_Gypsum_Water_Deposits_999.html
No doubt at all now. Mars now transitions from dead planet to one once alive. What was a discovery story now becomes a sort of murder mystery - what killed the red planet so long ago?
The little Mars rovers join their Voyager cousins in deep space as the most amazing machines of discovery ever made.
-drl
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dickbill
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/30/08
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: deSitter]
#4956967 - 12/08/11 03:21 PM
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Beautiful indeed.
Mars was too small to begin with, and a major impact might have been a coup de grace for the atmosphere.
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: dickbill]
#4957147 - 12/08/11 05:29 PM
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I don't concede that Mars is dead now; actually quite the opposite.
But, I'd bet there was a really active Earth-like biosphere at one time. The Hellas, Argyre, Utopia, and/or Isidis impacts seem like they might be good candidates for the murderer. They're all Noachian (I think), and could have done the job handily.
(Col. Argyre in the southern hemisphere with the asteroid!)
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Shadowalker
Apocaloptimist
Reged: 11/23/04
Loc: Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, ...
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: Rick Woods]
#4957176 - 12/08/11 05:51 PM
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Canali!
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: Shadowalker]
#4957347 - 12/08/11 07:56 PM
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http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/multimedia/pia15037.html
Notice how dusty the camera lens is 
This photo is really amazing. Someone should paint this scene!
-drl
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Kaelin
super member
Reged: 11/16/09
Loc: Flossmoor, IL
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: deSitter]
#4957370 - 12/08/11 08:11 PM
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Marvin the Martian may have mined the stuff as a feedstock for drywall using his Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: Kaelin]
#4957385 - 12/08/11 08:20 PM
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Gimme an O!
Gimme a P!
Gimme a P!
... (etc)
What's that spell? Opportunity!!
Wotta rover. Who built it? They should get some more contracts.
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: Rick Woods]
#4957648 - 12/09/11 12:05 AM
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See here for what gypsum veins look like on Earth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum#Occurrence
Click photos twice to enlarge. It's exactly what shows in the Mars photo.
-drl
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lightfever
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/27/04
Loc: Macomb Michigan
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: deSitter]
#4958157 - 12/09/11 12:11 PM
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No doubt at all now. Mars now transitions from dead planet to one once alive. What was a discovery story now becomes a sort of murder mystery - what killed the red planet so long ago?
Since Mars has no magnetic field of any consequence isn't it destined to lose it atmosphere and water vapor due to erosion from the solar wind?
I have always been intrigued by the idea of terraforming Mars. It's time to crash some comets into the planet!
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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
Reged: 09/26/05
Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: lightfever]
#4958231 - 12/09/11 01:03 PM Attachment (18 downloads)
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This is a very old photo taken from the days when we still did film, but if you want gypsum, the region east of Las Vegas is choked with it. This is a clay/siltstone formation from the Triassic era (some 220 million years ago for this one I think) that is cut through with countless veins of gypsum. A hot dry environment that sucks groundwater out of a permeable soil will tend to concentrate gypsum, and that's what we've had here.
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Charlie B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/22/08
Loc: Sterling, Virginia
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: llanitedave]
#4958613 - 12/09/11 05:39 PM Attachment (14 downloads)
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And I thought all the gypsum in the world was at White Sands, NM.
Charlie B
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: lightfever]
#4958764 - 12/09/11 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
No doubt at all now. Mars now transitions from dead planet to one once alive. What was a discovery story now becomes a sort of murder mystery - what killed the red planet so long ago?
Since Mars has no magnetic field of any consequence isn't it destined to lose it atmosphere and water vapor due to erosion from the solar wind?
I have always been intrigued by the idea of terraforming Mars. It's time to crash some comets into the planet!
There is probably a lot of ice there already. Melting it would be pretty easy compared to say generating an atmosphere by hand. Once you have large bodies of water, you are most of the way there. While the planet is cooking, the Martians could live in domed cities. It would be pretty rough living.
-drl
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Kaelin
super member
Reged: 11/16/09
Loc: Flossmoor, IL
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: deSitter]
#4958933 - 12/09/11 09:18 PM
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Great stuff! Gee, gypsum on Mars. A hydrothermal deposit? I suppose other minerals in the vicinity might confirm what type of gypsum it is.
Mars may have had some water, enough for evaporite deposits like gypsum, and still largely be a dry planet. Gypsum in general is water-soluble. Any additional water on Mars in that location could've dissolved it away over time.
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charlie g
sage
Reged: 10/05/07
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: Kaelin]
#4959128 - 12/09/11 11:49 PM
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could: 'iianitedaves' thoughts on approx 220 million year old gypsum veins in that earth/LA region of gypsum veins...could this earth instance of gypsum-veins be a referrence marker for the globes cilmate needs...to have that: 'water percolation through a soil up to an arid climate situation/concentration of the gypsum parent chemicals into a gypsum vein strata marking'....
well is this an indicator or the time frame required for the Martian gypsum-veins striations?
Overall I wonder..if the earth/LA gypsum veins which Dave has shared...if these veins are circa: 220 million years old...when can it be said, Dave, the parent chemicals started to be conveyed to this LA region...before surface arid climate evaporation 'thickened this brew'..to 220 million years ago form the :'gypsum veins'?
If the life span from chemical starter solution, to a gypsum-vein LA region deposit of 'gypsum-veins' estimated to be 220 million years old on earth...if this specific life cycle can be known...can we then speculate on the time frame for those gypsum-veins/ 'speed bumps' on the Martian drive area that the rover just gave us joyful signal of...can it's Martian 'life span range of time from moist percolateing Martian soil brew'...to those stark and ancient surface gypsum-veins be reckoned? It seems so bleak to try and grasp this inner planetary time frame for me...yet I enjoy open star clusters within Auriga this time of year.
Thanks for this wonderful thread, all! charlie guevara
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: deSitter]
#4959903 - 12/10/11 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No doubt at all now. Mars now transitions from dead planet to one once alive. What was a discovery story now becomes a sort of murder mystery - what killed the red planet so long ago?
Since Mars has no magnetic field of any consequence isn't it destined to lose it atmosphere and water vapor due to erosion from the solar wind?
I have always been intrigued by the idea of terraforming Mars. It's time to crash some comets into the planet!
There is probably a lot of ice there already. Melting it would be pretty easy compared to say generating an atmosphere by hand. Once you have large bodies of water, you are most of the way there. While the planet is cooking, the Martians could live in domed cities. It would be pretty rough living.
No matter what you do, you still have no protective magnetic field. Terraforming will never be a viable option on Mars; it can't last with the low gravity and cosmic bombardment. As soon as a (human) civilization on Mars slips a little technologically (and these things are always cyclical), they're doomed. Whatever terraforming we do to Mars will start to unravel as soon as we stop actively feeding it.
If we're going to live on Mars, we'll have to deal with it on its own terms.
(I'd be glad to be convinced otherwise, though!)
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deSitter
Still in Old School
Reged: 12/09/04
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: Rick Woods]
#4959917 - 12/10/11 01:42 PM
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Yes the atmosphere will bleed off over geologic time - but it would be easy to keep it replenished for a society with its act together.
-drl
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Rick Woods
Postmaster
Reged: 01/27/05
Loc: Inner Solar System
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Re: Flowing water on Mars confirmed
[Re: deSitter]
#4960078 - 12/10/11 03:46 PM
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Yes the atmosphere will bleed off over geologic time - but it would be easy to keep it replenished for a society with its act together.
Yeah; if no Dark Ages happens. As a place for Man to perpetuate the species over said geologic time, I don't think Mars has the right stuff; that is, if we're absolutely dependent on that level of technology being available.
Ahh, pay no attention to me. I always look for the worst-case scenario, so I can be happy when it doesn't happen. 
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