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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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I've been working on my Astronomical League Messier Club and Deep Sky Bino Club certificates, and I started thinking....(look out!)....
Is there a definitive list of objects for binoculars that could be considered "THE" list of all lists?
The list would contain :
1) The "must haves" of Messier objects - big globs, open clusters, etc.
2) Some of the more obscure objects for binos from the Herschel, NGC, Stock, and IC catalogs.
3) Some really nice binaries like Beta-Cygni that have strong bino-interest.
4) Whatever else the great bino experts could pull out of the hat.
The list could have two different sections - one for small binos (handheld) and the other for giant mounted binos.
If such a list does not exist, don't we owe it to the world to create one and put the Cloudy Nights stamp on it?
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
Edited by Bebs (07/06/05 09:01 AM)
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SaberScorpX
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 4121
Loc: illinois, usa
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Hi Mike-
The compilation of targets in Harrington's book 'Touring the Universe thru Binoculars' comes to mind. Also available on CD-ROM.
Highly recommended.
Saber
Ready to tackle the Herschel 400?
http://www.geocities.com/saberscorpx/SGH400.html
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4420
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Almost any of the lists for telescopes can do for binoculars, including the above, the Caldwells, objects in OMera book of Scotty Houston, dark nebula, etc. The dimmer, and smaller objects will be more difficult. TSP also has lists for binocular awards. It depends on the bino size and availability of darkner skies.
Ed Jones
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I don't think you can ever reach a "definitive" list. Ask 100 bino astronomers and you'll get 100 different lists with some overlap. This question poses a survey opportunity perhaps...
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2759
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
I've been working on my Astronomical League Messier Club and Deep Sky Bino Club certificates, and I started thinking....(look out!)....
Is there a definitive list of objects for binoculars that could be considered "THE" list of all lists?
The list would contain :
1) The "must haves" of Messier objects - big globs, open clusters, etc.
2) Some of the more obscure objects for binos from the Herschel, NGC, Stock, and IC catalogs.
3) Some really nice binaries like Beta-Cygni that have strong bino-interest.
4) Whatever else the great bino experts could pull out of the hat.
The list could have two different sections - one for small binos (handheld) and the other for giant mounted binos.
If such a list does not exist, don't we owe it to the world to create one and put the Cloudy Nights stamp on it?
MikeG
Hi Bebs...
Sounds like a great project for you....your 100s are a good representative aperture for this project.
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10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Quote:
Hi Bebs...
Sounds like a great project for you....your 100s are a good representative aperture for this project.
Yeah, even though I am still a beginner, I have started compiling a draft list. Some are objects I have personally seen, others are from my "wish list", and still more are culled various sources I have located on the web. I could throw together a basic large-apeture list (100mm+) and depending on how that goes, someone else can make a hand-held list. I rarely use my 8x binocs for stargazing, my 15x are out on loan, so that leaves the big dogs. So I feel someone else would be imminently more qualified to compile a list for smaller apetures.
I'll put something together over the next few days and then share it. Then other folk who are far more experienced than I can make suggestions, contributions and corrections. With a little participation from the heavy-hitters around here, we could make this little project interesting. Honestly, I feel more of a sense of community here at CN than I do being a member of the AAAA and the AL. A Cloudy Nights bino-club "certificate" (or whatever) would mean more to me than others already in existence.
One other thing just occured to me as well, since my binocs are large but modest, they are potentially representative of what can be expected from a range of similar large apeture binocs of varying qualities.
EdZ - I am in the process of referring to the links you mentioned. I have found a wealth of relevant information from sources like the SEDS project and the websites of various astro-societies around the globe. My question is this : if I pull list items from other published observing catalogues and programs, do I need to individually credit each and every entry? Or is it suffice to say a given object is property of it's own catalogue so to speak, and quoting it as "M" or "NGC" or whatever is sufficient? I don't want to copy or infringe upon any existing observing programs, I want to put together a new and eclectic mix of targets.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12566
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
EdZ - I am in the process of referring to the links you mentioned. I have found a wealth of relevant information from sources like the SEDS project and the websites of various astro-societies around the globe. My question is this : if I pull list items from other published observing catalogues and programs, do I need to individually credit each and every entry? Or is it suffice to say a given object is property of it's own catalogue so to speak, and quoting it as "M" or "NGC" or whatever is sufficient? I don't want to copy or infringe upon any existing observing programs, I want to put together a new and eclectic mix of targets.
This is an interesting question, one which needs some attention. Here is some information I can give you.
I know of at least one instance where a list was copied from a Sky and Telescope list. S&T requested that the list be removed.
A list that is compiled and posted by any entity, be it a book publisher, magazine publisher or club, is the property of that entity and cannot be copied in whole or in part without first requesting permission. Printing the list for your own persanal use (which it is often stated is permissable) is not the same as copying the list and reposting it on another website.
So based on these two examples, the only real way to create a list is to compile it oneself. Copying portions of lists from other lists can be considered infringement.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
So based on these two examples, the only real way to create a list is to compile it oneself. Copying portions of lists from other lists can be considered infringement.
And besides Mike, I would think that you would want to go about this from an original approach anyway. It would be much more educational and satisfying to you I would think once you have finally complied your list and shared it.
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Ok, I think there should be two seperate lists :
1) Hand-held binocular (for low power binocs 7-10x)
2) Giant binocular (100mm and larger apeture)
IMHO, The former should have more emphasis on open clusters. Such
clusters are better appreciated through the wider FOV provided by
low-power binocs.
The giant club should have an emphasis on globular clusters, nebulas,
and galaxies. These objects are often very faint and are considered
"challenge" objects with hand-held binocs (some are impossible in small apetures).
The starter list is intended as a draft list. It is open to comments, suggestions,
submissions, corrections, etc. Indeed, I welcome and encourage the CN regulars to
particpate in this little project and contribute some objects that I am sure I
overlooked due to haste or inexperience.
I am still a beginner myself, and I have not personally viewed many of these objects. My sources
were various observation reports from around the world culled from the world wide web. I did not
borrow or copy from any published observation-program or existing object list. This list I have
started does borrow heavily from Messier's list, including all of the globular cluster. Any binocular
list (especially deep-sky or large-apeture) would be incomplete without dozens of Messier objects,
so they are included even though they are already widely used on various observing programs.
At this moment, there are 74 objects on the list.
Thanks folks for inspiring me to do this and I look forward to hearing some feedback.
MikeG
DRAFT LIST "Giant Binocular Observation Targets" (100mm or larger apeture recommended)
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Nebulas and objects with nebulosity (16) :
M1 : Crab Nebula
M8 : Lagoon Nebula
M17 : Omega Nebula, Swan, Horseshoe, or Lobster Nebula
M20 : Trifid Nebula
M24 : Milky Way "cloud"
M27 : Dumbbell Nebula
M57 : Ring Nebula
M42 : Orion Nebula
M43 : de Mairan's Nebula
M76 : Little Dumbell, Cork, or Butterfly Nebula
M78 : diffuse reflection nebula
NGC 2237 : Rosette Nebula
NGC 6543 : Cat Eye nebula
NGC 7000 :North America Nebula
NGC 7009 : Saturn Nebula
NGC 7293 : Helix Nebula
Open Clusters (11) :
M6 : Butterfly Cluster
M7 : Ptolemy's Cluster
M11 : Wild Duck Cluster
M44 : Praesepe, the Beehive Cluster
M45 : Subaru, the Pleiades (the Seven Sisters)
NGC 869/884 : Persei double cluster
NGC 2362 : Tau CMa cluster, or Mexican Jumping Star
Mel 25 : the Hyades
Mel 111 : Coma Star Cluster
Cr399 : Coathanger
Globular Clusters (33) :
M2 - Aquarius
M3 - Canes Venatici
M4 - Scorpius
M5 - Serpens
M9 - Ophiuchus
M10 - Ophiuchus
M12 - Ophiuchus
M13 - Hercules
M14 - Ophiuchus
M15 - Pegasus
M19 - Ophiuchus
M22 - Sagittarius
M28 - Sagittarius
M30 - Capricornus
M53 - Coma Berenices
M54 - Sagittarius
M55 - Sagittarius
M56 - Lyra
M62 - Ophiuchus
M68 - Hydra
M69 - Sagittarius
M70 - Sagittarius
M71 - Sagitta
M72 - Aquarius
M75 - Sagittarius
M79 - Lepus
M80 - Scorpius
M92 - Hercules
M107 - Ophiuchus
NGC 104 (47 Tucanae)
NGC 5053 - Coma
NGC 5897 - Libra
NGC 6712 - Scutum
Unusual stars, binaries, asterisms, and galaxies (14) :
Eta Carinae
Delta Corvus - Algorab, yellow-purple double
Gamma Leporis - yellow/orange double
Epsilon Lyrae - double/double
Beta Cygni - Albiero, celestial stoplight
Iota Cancri - yellow/blue-white double
M31 : Andromeda Galaxy
M32 : Andromeda satellite galaxy
M33 : Triangulum Galaxy
M51 : Whirlpool Galaxy
M82 : The Cigar Galaxy
M101 : Pinwheel Galaxy
M104 : Sombrero Galaxy
NGC 7331 : galaxy in Pegasus
----------------------------------------------------
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
Edited by Bebs (07/06/05 06:57 AM)
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Alby
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 899
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Hi;
Nice start Bebs!
Alby
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Alby
Scoping Savant
10in LX200 Classic SCT
Oberwerk BT 100 45
7x50 USSR Binocs
Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 binocs
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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That IS a great start, but I was thinking that for 100mm bins with 25x or greater, any M object that's 10.0 or less could, or should, be on the list. Same for NGC objects too. Same for any interesting stellar objects.
Now that I'm re-reading the above paragraph, I guess what I am ACTUALLY saying this that there is not any object IMHO that does not deserve to be on a list if it can be reasonably seen given the magnification and aperture size.
My problem is that I like EVERYTHING. 
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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Quote:
Now that I'm re-reading the above paragraph, I guess what I am ACTUALLY saying this that there is not any object IMHO that does not deserve to be on a list if it can be reasonably seen given the magnification and aperture size.
My problem is that I like EVERYTHING.
I agree. I bought large-apeture binocs with DSO hunting in mind. So far, I have stayed away from objects in excess of Mag 9.0, because I wanted to give observers in urban areas a decent chance of making the list. Any 100mm binoc (especially those that take interchangable ep's) can and should be able to see in excess of Mag 11 or 12. But I also wanted to stay away from objects whose sole value is "stamp collecting". I guess one could argue that many of the globs on the Messier list fall under that category, but there is something nostalgic and pleasing about locating the same objects that a noted pioneer in the field found centuries ago using primitive instruments. No, what I tried to avoid was listing too many NGC objects in crowded regions like Sagittarius. There are already so many Messier objects in that relatively-small area that overkill is a problem. IMHO, I think a really good deep-sky binocular list should contain a good sampling of a variety of objects with an emphasis on more distant, fainter targets. For example, the Astronomical League's Deep Sky Binocular Club is almost 90% open clusters. Not only is this redundant (IMHO), I feel that many open clusters are best appreciated in lower-power, wider-field binocs. I don't know about you, but when I turn the giant sky-sweepers towards the heavens, I'm not looking for open clusters.
This list I have started contains a decent mixture of targets....although I will admit it is heavy on globular clusters, perhaps too heavy.
I'd like to add some nice color-contrast binaries, some unusual asterisms, and other stuff, but my lack of experience hampers me in those areas.
I did add 4 new objects however :
NGC 3242 : Eye Nebula, Ghost of Jupiter
NGC 6826 : Blinking Planetary Nebula
NGC 2264 : Christmas Tree Cluster
NGC 6934 - GC in Delphinus
That brings the working total to 78.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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I'm at 85 objects now. I added some more nebulous objects, a couple of open clusters, and a glob or two.
This is getting fun....But I am running out of material. I have combed every catalogue I could find. Telescope targets abound, but stuff in the bino-magnitude range is more limited.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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It is kind of you to think about others who suffer from, like myself when I am at home, light pollution. Good idea.
Quote:
I'd like to add some nice color-contrast binaries
This would be a nice addition in IMO. Extended objects are nice and all, but colorful stellar objects, I find, are equally pleasant.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12566
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Any 100mm binoc (especially those that take interchangable ep's) can and should be able to see in excess of Mag 11 or 12.
Stars to Mag 11 yes, mag 12 maybe if skies ar mag6+. But not for extended objects. For diffuse extended object observed with a 100mm binocular under a mag 5.5 sky, the limit might be more like mag 10 to 10.5, maybe less. Are you going to list the magnitude of the objects, integrated magnitude for clusters with mag of brightest star, surface brightness for extended objects.
Quote:
I think a really good deep-sky binocular list should contain a good sampling of a variety of objects with an emphasis on more distant, fainter targets.
Any particular reason why. The showcase objects, regardless of how distant are still the showcases. A list doesn't get better just because it has distant objects. If your intent on including the more distant objects, are you going to list the distances to all the objects. I think a list that puts emphasis on more distant fainter objects will gain little favor from the majority of observers.
Quote:
I don't know about you, but when I turn the giant sky-sweepers towards the heavens, I'm not looking for open clusters.
Sometimes I spend a whole night just trying to capture all the open clusters in Cassiopeia and Perseus. Some of the finest objects in the sky in my opinion. Quite an assortment of NGC, K, Be, St, IC, even a few M. In fact I've done the same thing in Monoceros. These areas are so dense in open clusters I don't see how they can be overlooked. Cygnus is the same. And Puppis. So I can't agree with the above statement. Many times I spend nearly entire nights outside observing just open clusters.
Just some thoughts,
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12566
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
This is getting fun....But I am running out of material. I have combed every catalogue I could find. Telescope targets abound, but stuff in the bino-magnitude range is more limited.
I think this is because you are not familiar with the targets. One quick look at your list and I can name 10 open clusters in Cas that are beautiful binocular targets even for 15x70s and you haven't tagged them. Might I suggest you pick up a copy of Crossen's "Binocular Astronomy" and take a look at all the binocular targets he highlights. Take a look at this chart. Almost every cluster on this chart is a big binocular target. Cas-Cam-Per Chart
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12566
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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For lists of Binaries visit the Double Star Forum. The best of Post in the double star forum already provides links to quite an assortment of binary list created here on CN. Numerous of those lists are already identified as doubles for binoculars or colorful doubles.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2759
Loc: Just passing through.....
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While I believe that plowing through lists of objects allows one to carry on with goal directed activities like Herschel and Messier lists, the principle charm of binocular observing is the "simple minded" activity of just sweeping the heavens with an instrument that allows you to use both eyes in a naked eye orientation.
Binoculars allow you to "stand back" and see the forest instead of individual trees. On this scale, the open clusters and nebulosity become a part of the view rather then the object of attention.
This point of view suffers from the fact that it can't be communicated about as effectively as individual objects where there is endless discussion about what can and can't be seen with a particular aperture, etc, etc. It is intensely private.
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10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
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As a relative newcomer to stargazing, I am unfamiliar with many aspects of the craft. I cannot argue any of the points about open clusters, I wholeheartedly agree. The first time I saw the Pleiades under magnification was every bit as striking and pleasurable as the first time I saw M13, the Cygnus region, or Sagittarius. My list obviously suffers from a two-fold problem : lack of wide-ranging observational experience, and personal bias. That's why I posted the idea here, as a sounding board for those with more knowledge on the matter to provide some suggestions.
Like I said, honestly, I haven't even viewed the majority of these objects. Some were arbitrarily picked because they have an intriguing common name, others were selected to provide a variety of targets. And my personal bias "against" open clusters on observing lists is this : open clusters are often hard to identify against a rich background of stars for novice stargazers. Personally, I have an easier time finding a magnitude 9 planetary than I do a magnitude 5 open cluster. I enjoy a challenge, don't get me wrong, but I can't get too enthusiatic about a list that is overloaded with open clusters. Of course, maybe I went to far in the other direction by leaning so heavily on globs - perhaps someone can help me weed out some redundant globs and replace them with some interesting open clusters I may have missed.
And I too enjoy the colorful objects. The Garnet Star is a favorite, as is any of the very colorful stars and binaries. My knowledge in this particular area is very weak, so I will have to do some reading up. I will reference the links in the Doubles forum that EdZ provided.
And EdZ - unfortunately, I have no experience at all in the Cassiopeia and Perseus regions. My view of these areas, thus far in brief stargazing career, has been limited due to local viewing constraints - LP and obstructions. I'm sure I am missing quite a few worthy sights there, including the Persei double cluster... 
Well, anyhoot, like I said - this list is a draft and a beginning. I'd still like to get this list endorsed or included into Cloudy Nights somehow, perhaps as an article if nothing else. And to answer another of EdZ queries, I will be listing the apparent magnitude and some other pertinent points about each object. The good thing thus far is that most of these objects are commonly known and do not require any access to the more arcane catalogues.
More later....thanks for the feedback guys!
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
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HfxObserver
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 624
Loc: Waterloo ON, Canada
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Initially I thought this was a good idea but seeing that 52 out of the first 78 are Messier objects, I feel like this is re-inventing the wheel. It would be nice to see objects like the Rho Orph region, or the eastern "edge" of M24 + NGC 1284 as one object, these wide fields are where big binos and richest field scopes excel. If you want to stick with conventional single objects perhaps go with the bright but often over looked items like NGC 6144, if this wasn't in the glare of Antares and the attention getting M4 it would probably be on more lists.
I agree with Bill, these big binos allow us to stand back and look at the big picture, seldom is one object the only item visible in a field so unless there is something particular to have attention drawn to it, like B88 in the Lagoon, then lists of multiple same field, or panning regions might make for a better list.
The main reason I purchased big binos, 15X70's and 22X100's and a wide field apo is for Dark Nebula observing, these objects are conspicuously absent from the above list.
My suggestion would be to observe Messiers, get a feeling for other objects featured in S&T and Astronomy and if you are looking for something more organized try the best of the NGC in the RASC observers handbook or AL list. All but a few of those objects should be visible in 4-inch binos.
-Chris
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Chris
7X50 Vixen,22X100 Antares
80mm William Optics Megrez II ED
Santel MK6
Borg 125SD f6 (Pentax/Oasis version)
Tak-Lapides
Pentax XW's 40,20,14,10,3.5 3.8XP, Speers 5-8, 30mm Widescan III
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