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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review
      #507309 - 07/07/05 07:16 PM

Celestron 25x100mm Skymaster and 15x70mm Skymaster - Long-term review.

I have owned my 15x70mm Skymasters since Christmas of 2004. My wife got them for me
after I dropped some hints that stargazing might be a positive way to get me out of
her space while she paints and crafts. Of course, neither of us anticpated the case
of raging apeture-fever that those 15x70 Skymasters brought on. By the time our income
tax refund came the following April, we bought the 25x100mm Skymasters in an effort to
quench my thirst for more light and more power. Now that I have owned the 15's for
six months and the 25's for three months, I have noticed a few idiosyncracies that
bear mentioning. My first review of the 25x100mm Skymasters was posted on Cloudy Nights
shortly after I received them. At that point in time, I had only used them to stargaze
on a few brief occasions. That review, which is linked here, was mostly based on my
first impressions of the binoculars. This review will provide a summary of my thoughts
and observations since that time. Also, I will include my thoughts on the 15x70mm
Skymasters, which I have not officially reviewed up until now. Lastly, I will comment
on quality-control on these Chinese-made binos and "fit and finish" issues.

I want to state, first and foremost that I am pleased, overall, with my purchases from
Celestron. In terms of "bang for the buck", these giant binos cannot be beat. Having
said that, prospective owners of these bargain binos should be aware of a few niggling
issues that come with the cheap price. These issues are not deal-breakers, but whether
or not an owner can tolerate them will decide whether these binocs are good buy.

1) The diopters are loose. At first, the left diopter was tight and the right was
slightly loose but barely noticeable. Over time, the right has gotten very loose
and the left has come loose as well. By loose, I mean there is a good bit of play in
the focusing wheels. Also, the "shroud" around the left diopter that has the focus
indicator on it is loose and it now revolves independent of the focusing wheel it is
attached to. So the left diopter is now the worst - it wiggles in place and the
marker piece is loose as well. I worry that the lack of fit between the focusers and
the eyepieces may mean that the eyepiece-assemblies are not sealed well. This could be
a potential intrusion route for humidity. As of yet, this has not happened. The diopters
still function well, but the right eyepiece still does not have the clarity that the left
has. I find it hard to get a good, crisp, clean focus. Again, the focus issue is not
so bad as to be prohibitive, but it is a source of nagging doubt.

2) The integrated tripod mount is not tight and there is a persistent wiggle between the
stabilizing bar and the mounting base-plate. No matter how hard one tightens the big
knurled knob on top, the binocs will wiggle. This is due to a tiny screw that keeps coming
loose on the binoc housing where the tripod-stabilizer bar joins the binoc body. When the
screw is tightened, the wiggle disappears. But inevitably, the screw works itself loose and
the wiggle will return for the next night's session of stargazing. I have gotten into the
habit of keeping a tiny screwdriver in my goodie-bag just for the purpose of keeping this
screw tightened. This is not a major issue, but it is another one of those bothersome
things that I wish would go away.

3) The image quality is inconsistent across the FOV. This is to be expected with the so-called
"bargain binocs", but I find it particularly bad on my 25's. The centermost area of the FOV is
crisp and clean. But the quality fades quickly as one moves away from the center. A rough
guess on my part is that about 1/3 of the FOV is essentially unusable for serious observing.
These binocs, and my smaller 15's, have a "sweet spot" which in the case of the 25's is slightly
above and left of the FOV-center. This is where I try to position my viewing targets. Oddly, the
FOV appears to be better on my smaller and less expensive 15x Skymasters. I attribute this to
poor quality-control in the Chinese production factories - more on this later.

4) There is a noticeable amount of chromatic abberation present in the FOV. I really noticed this
when I viewed Venus recently. There was a distinct and bright presence of green and yellow that
changed as one's angle of view moved. However, I will say that any false color is far less noticeable
when viewing stellar targets and DSO's. The false color has only been noticeable when doing planetary
viewing. Another strange thing I noticed about the chromatic abberation on these binocs, is the lack
of said abberation while viewing in the daylight. I have heard numerous times that astronomical binoculars
produce a lot of false color during daytime viewing. I have not encountered this problem on the occasions
where I used these binocs for bird watching and looking at distant targets at the beach.

5) The dew shields are too small. Perhaps it is the overwhelming humidity in my local area, which
southern coastal Louisiana is infamous for, but I found the objectives were dewing up very quickly on
nights where the humidity was otherwise marginal. I concluded that large objective lenses like the 100mm
present a lot of glass-surface to the open air, and thus attracting dew like mad. I solved this problem
by making a set of custom dew-shields from PVC fittings (4-inch collars) which extended the factory
dewshields by almost 200%. This completely eliminated my dew problem. I cannot understand why binoc
manufacturers do not include bigger dew shields in their designs. The materials and plans I used to make
the dew shields can be found at this message-thread on Cloudy Nights
.

Ok, those are the issues about the 25's I do not like. All of these problems can be attributed to one or
two factors : quality control in the manufacturing process, or "fit and finish". And example of the quality
control issue is the optics quality. My smaller 15x70mm Skymasters have a more consistent and crisp FOV than
my 25's. The 15x70's focus easier and cleaner and there is no discrepancy from one ep to the other as is
present on the 25x100's. Also, the "sweet spot" in the 70mm is larger as a percentage of the total FOV than
in the larger 100mm model. Given that the 100mm model cost more than double what the smaller 70mm sells for, it
only stands to figure that the production batch of my 70mm models were superior in optical quality than the
batch of 100mm binocs that my other model came from. Both were likely made in the same factory, using the
same overall process, so one must question the quality control of the optics.

Secondly, the fit and finish on the 15's is superior to that of the 25's. This is not just a personal
preference of mine for the rubber-armor on the 70mm over the "skin" that covers the 100mm model. The bigger
binocs have a "looser" overall feel that has not gotten better with time - example, the screw in the tripod
adapter that keeps working loose. In comparison, my 70mm Skymasters have held up well. The ep's are still
tight, the diopter is tight and focuses well.

Such issues as quality control and fit-finish are realities of the binocular market. And that is the main
difference between 100mm binocs that sell for $200.00 versus high-end 100mm binocs that sell for $1000.00.
Wiggly screws, false color, "sweet spots", and loose diopters are not to be expected on Fujinons or other
Japanese-made binocs of comparable size. But if you can live with such issues, then the Celestron Skymasters
are a good bargain. I believe that a giant pair of 100mm Celestron binocs will allow you to see more
stars and "deeper" into space than a smaller pair of optically-superior and more expensive binocs. The difference
lies in the CRISP and BRIGHT views that are seen in high price binocs that are consistent across the vast majority
of the FOV (or the entire FOV in some cases).

At any rate, I plan on sending my pair back to Celestron at some point in the very near future to either have
the replaced or serviced to fix the diopter issues and address the poor quality optics present in my particular binoc.
My experience with taking them up on their "No Fault Lifetime Warranty" will hopefully be the source of a future
report that is more positive and satisfying.

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



Edited by Bebs (07/07/05 08:38 PM)


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KennyJ

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Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10143
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #507316 - 07/07/05 07:23 PM

MikeG,

Thank you for a very frank epistle !

This forum is surprisingly short on such reviews.

Regards , Kenny

--------------------
Two eyes and a preference to use both



Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera


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medinabrit
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Reged: 10/27/04
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Loc: medina ohio USA.
Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: KennyJ]
      #507359 - 07/07/05 08:19 PM

i had a pair of celestron 25x100s. i drilled another hole & put another slightly larger screw in .that cured the wobble
brian


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Markus
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Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: medinabrit]
      #507482 - 07/07/05 10:23 PM

I myself plan on getting a pair of celestron 15x70 Skymasters very soon. Thanks for the great review of both pairs, I feel much better about the 15x70 pair knowing more about them.
-----------------
Mark
12" Gso scope
10x50 Magnicon cheepos

--------------------
25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount





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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #507871 - 07/08/05 09:29 AM

Of course, mere hours after I wrote this last review, my binocular world came crashing down around me....ok, so that's a bit dramatic, but my left diopter did fall off into my hand last night.

Here is a pic of the defective diopter. These binocs have never been dropped or abused.



And here is a pic of the wiggly screw that I mentioned in my latest review :



I apologize for the poor quality pics, my usual digital camera has dead batteries.

I have emailed Celestron to start the ball rolling on shipping these things back. I am waiting to hear from them.

At this point, I am not too pleased.

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



Edited by Bebs (07/08/05 09:31 AM)


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #508025 - 07/08/05 11:26 AM

Mike, I am sorry to hear you have problems with your Skymaster 25x100.
I purchased mine a month ago and so far I had no problems. The focusers are a little stiff but manageable. I can confirm also the aberration problem, however I cannot tell you with certainty which planet I observed since I am new.
Indeed, quality is not strongest feature of this binocular, but it is a good binocular for starters on a budget.


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medinabrit
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Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: ]
      #508141 - 07/08/05 12:56 PM

drill next to the small screw in your photo. then screw a self tapping screw thru . it done the trick on mine . i never had any more probs after that . but sold them & got apogee ra 88,s which are very good.
brian


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DJB
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1267
Re: Celestron 25x100 Skymaster Binoc - Extended Review new [Re: medinabrit]
      #509030 - 07/09/05 02:46 AM

Hello Bebs, and all,

Sorry to hear of your problems. I have an older, longer CELESTRON 20x80mm,(higher f/) bino of the original implementation. Made in Japan. Never had a problem with it, and I use it for solar observing these days. Also have the OBERWERK 25x100mm. Very nice unit, to be sure.

However, to my point. Concerning the dislodged eyecup, you might consider this. There is a series of "glues" on the market called, simply, GOOP. It comes in several flavours, and I prefer the plumbing variety for general use.

If you could carefully cement the plastic part back onto the bino unit, and then allow the "glue" to cure, it will be stronger than the original part(s). I will guarentee it. And by the way, it will not emit fumes harmful to your lenses or coatings, such as super glue will!

I swear by the stuff, and I usually purchase at a local True Value store.

I once had to modify an LED (12 in all) light disc that I designed for a gemstone display. I "GOOPED" a bronze LED holder that I designed to fit onto an inner marble top of the display. It took me two days to get that bloody thing separated, using all the tools at my disposal.

Perhaps you might take this into consideration. And, good luck however you choose to proceed.

Regards,

Dave.


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
Defect dilemma - need some advice! new [Re: DJB]
      #509287 - 07/09/05 12:39 PM

Hi everyone,

I need some advice here. Without getting overly verbose, here is the problem :

My Celestron Skymaster 25x100 binos are defective. I have had them approx. 90 days and I have taken good care of them - no drops, no major knocks, no abuse. Over time, my diopters starting working loose. Eventually, the left diopter shroud (the plastic part that surrounds the ep assembly and has the focus indicator mark on it) came completely free and fell off into my hand while observing near the zenith. The right shroud is also loose and heading down the same road to ruin as the left. Bearing in mind that these Skymasters have a "lifetime no-fault warranty", I am considering getting a return-authorization and sending them back for repair/replacement. But I was doing some thinking about the nature of my binocs and my observing conditions and I have an idea. Many of my ideas are folly, so I am posting it here to get some more qualified opinions.

1) To my knowledge, these Celestrons are not sealed air-tight to start with are they? They are not sold as "sealed" nor is there any mention of them being charged/pressurized with nitro or anything else to keep out humidity/air intrusion. So, if this is true, then the shroud falling off is not a critical issue in-of-itself. It is an annoyance and a cosmetic issue, but not something that prohibits good use of the bino by an experienced user. Conversely, if the sealed shroud of a high-end bino, like the Fujis, were to somehow come loose and break the seal around the ep, then that WOULD be an issue.

2) IF, and only IF, #1 is true, then would it possibly be to my advantage to keep these binos and use these loose diopters in an unorthodox way? What I mean is this : I have heard many mixed stories about bino-users living in light-polluted areas who have taken LPR-filters and adapted them for use with their binos. The problem most have with this is finding a stable, workable, and efficient way to mount the filter to a binocular that was never intended to be used with filters. This usually results in the user sandwhiching the LPR filter between washers (or something similar) and inserting it into the rubber ep-cups. While this works, it is not a precise or efficient way to use filters with binos, as the physics of light demand that the filter be held at a certain distance and angle to the light path. What IF, I could simply drop the LPR filter(s) into place inside the diopter-housing and then slip the housing back into place on the bino? I measured the inside diameter of the diopter-shroud and a standard 1.25" unthreaded filter should fit perfectly inside.

What does everyone think of this idea? Is it something I should try before I send the binos back?

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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EdZModerator
Professor EdZ
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Re: Defect dilemma - need some advice! new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #509409 - 07/09/05 02:39 PM

Two things Mike,

if I recall, the 25x100 Skymaster is a waterproof binocular, so the seal may be broken

Get rid of them. Exchange them, get your money back. Whatever. But do not try to take a NEW binocular with problems and make do with it.

Send them back.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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later
sage


Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 446
Loc: Posen, Michigan
Re: Defect dilemma - need some advice! new [Re: EdZ]
      #509481 - 07/09/05 04:22 PM

I agree............touch them and you blow the warranty

Gary

--------------------
Galileo 15 X 70
Oberwerk BT100-45





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Glassthrower
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Celestron warranty experiences? new [Re: later]
      #512935 - 07/12/05 12:43 PM

I have contacted Celestron via email to start the ball rolling on shipping these binocs back for warranty service/replacement.

Has anyone here in the group had any experience with Celestron and their warranties? Are they good to work with? What is the turn-around time like?

I am going through serious bino-withdrawals, and of course as luck would have it, the last few nights have been CLEAR as all get-out. I hope I hear from them soon, or I will sick "bad mike" on them!

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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Alby
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 899
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Celestron warranty experiences? new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #513241 - 07/12/05 03:50 PM

Bebs;

Check this thread out.....

Do I have the worst luck or what??!!!! in equipment discussions.

Best of luck with Celestron.

Alby

--------------------
Alby

Scoping Savant
10in LX200 Classic SCT
Oberwerk BT 100 45
7x50 USSR Binocs
Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 binocs


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Posts: 14682
Loc: Hurricane Alley
Re: Celestron warranty experiences? new [Re: Alby]
      #513630 - 07/12/05 08:06 PM

I got this back via email today from Celestron :

Quote:


Please ship it to:

Celestron
Attn: Repair
2835 Columbia Street
Torrance, CA 90503

Please reference Return Authorization number ###### on the outside of the shipping box. Be sure to include a detailed note describing the problem you are having and a check or money order for $25.00 to qualify for the No Fault Warranty replacement.



Thanks,
Celestron Technical Support






I blotted out the RA number. At least I heard back from them promptly. After reading the thread Alby mentioned above, I wasn't brimming with confidence in this matter.

I am going to push for REPLACEMENT with a new pair rather than a repair. Do I have any choice in this matter? Can I demand a replacement? They say they have the right to repair or replace as they see fit (basically).

MikeG

--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.



Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!



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Rusty
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Re: Celestron warranty experiences? new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #513662 - 07/12/05 08:29 PM

Their email states (roughly), "Send money for a replacement." That's what you should get.

--------------------
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ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
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Zani
member


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Posts: 24
Re: Celestron warranty experiences? new [Re: Rusty]
      #2762897 - 11/21/08 10:23 AM

And what's happen? Anyone knows?

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