SeptemberEquinox
sage
   
Reged: 01/29/12
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Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
#5083660 - 02/21/12 12:03 PM
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So I have been thinking of purchasing ES David Levy Comet hunter Mak. Newt.. My only concern is the comfort when observing on my Vixen GP2 mount. It just look uncomfortable. Is it comfortable?
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Darenwh
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/11/06
Loc: Covington, GA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: SeptemberEquinox]
#5083681 - 02/21/12 12:21 PM
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As long as you have a rotating tube assembly, either by using rotating rings or a setup such as Wilcox rings, you will find that a newt on an EQ mount can be quite comfortable. If you don't have it in a way that the tube can rotate you will find that it is very uncomfortable to use a newt on an EQ mount.
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Mike B
Starstruck
   
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Darenwh]
#5083771 - 02/21/12 01:06 PM
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Yes, *some* manner of easily rotating the tube will make the whole thing quite doable.
My solution has been to use the standard felt-lined "rings", and to polish the scope's tube with a quality carnuba auto wax. This way it i can leave the rings clamped just tight enough to hold it from moving/sliding- yet with a slight torque i can smoothly twist the tube so that the focuser is precisely where i want it!
In like manner, i can also scootch the tube fore or aft, to help balance for a particularly heavy EP, or such.
You can dial in the preferred holding grip on the "rings" by tightening/loosening the thumb-screws that hold the ring halves together, like a clamp. For me, i leave the scope in its "rings" & dovetail rail, all as a unit. Then i simply install the dovetail into the receiver slot on the mount- and am then ready to observe. So the ring's tension/grip on the tube is seldom fiddled with!
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SeptemberEquinox
sage
   
Reged: 01/29/12
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Mike B]
#5085258 - 02/22/12 09:58 AM
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I am sorry to ask. But what is rotating tube assembly? I tried to find out what it is and I cannot find it anywhere who sells it.
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Darenwh
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/11/06
Loc: Covington, GA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: SeptemberEquinox]
#5085473 - 02/22/12 12:07 PM
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I am sorry to ask. But what is rotating tube assembly? I tried to find out what it is and I cannot find it anywhere who sells it.
Rotating rings are rings used to mount the newtonian telescope that give the user the ability to rotate the OTA in the rings. This is done to allow you to turn the OTA so that the focuser is in a location that will make it easy for you to look into it. These normally use a ball bearing based system to allow an inner ring that is on the scope to rotate inside of the outer ring that is actually attached to the mount, usually via a dovetail.
Wilcox Rings are described in this link at Andy's Shot Glass. These allow you to use normal rings to mount the scope but to keep them loose enough that you can turn the OTA to get the focuser to a user friendly location.
Basically, both of these solutions allow the OTA to be rotated in such a manner that the focuser can be moved to a point where it is easy to view through the scope no matter what part of the sky it is pointed at on the EQ mount.
Note that when a newtonian telescope is mounted on an EQ mount it operates differently from a refractor. If you point a newtonian scope at a target in the eastern part of the sky and have the OTA in the rings mounted so that the focuser is on top of the OTA then you turn that scope to point to the west using the RA drive only you will find that once you are pointing to that part of the sky that the focuser will be directly on the bottom of the ota. Now, if you have a small newt mounted on a short EQ mount you may find that while the focuser is on top it would be easy to use. Once you have it pointing west you would find that it is actually very difficult to use because the focuser would be under the OTA and you would need to crawl under it and then look up into the focuser. if you loosen the rings to try to turn the scope you could mess up the alignment of the mount while your trying to turn the OTA. The rotating OTA using Rotating rings or wilcox rings allows you to turn the tube without needing to take a chance that could ruin your alignment or even cause you to drop the OTA if you loosen the rings too much to turn the OTA with fixed rings.
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stevetaylor199
sage
   
Reged: 09/21/11
Loc: SE Wisconsin
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Mike B]
#5085626 - 02/22/12 01:25 PM
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My solution has been to use the standard felt-lined "rings", and to polish the scope's tube with a quality carnuba auto wax. This way it i can leave the rings clamped just tight enough to hold it from moving/sliding- yet with a slight torque i can smoothly twist the tube so that the focuser is precisely where i want it!
In like manner, i can also scootch the tube fore or aft, to help balance for a particularly heavy EP, or such.
You can dial in the preferred holding grip on the "rings" by tightening/loosening the thumb-screws that hold the ring halves together, like a clamp. For me, i leave the scope in its "rings" & dovetail rail, all as a unit. Then i simply install the dovetail into the receiver slot on the mount- and am then ready to observe. So the ring's tension/grip on the tube is seldom fiddled with!
I like the simplicity of that. I've gotta ask, though, what diameter tube, and how heavy is it? This solution works for you even when looking at the zenith?
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SeptemberEquinox
sage
   
Reged: 01/29/12
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: stevetaylor199]
#5085675 - 02/22/12 01:50 PM
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15 pounds, 152mm aperture, 725?mm fl
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: SeptemberEquinox]
#5085708 - 02/22/12 02:13 PM
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Some sort of system for Rotating Rings is necessary to really make a equatorially mounted Newtonian comfortable. I had a set of Antares ball-bearing rotating rings for my 8 inch F/5 but replaced them with a set of modified standard rings. The felt was replaced with Teflon and various other small mods... Cheap and easy and they are as smooth as the ball bearing rings but lighter and more attractive.
Teflon Pads for an 8 inch F/5
Jon
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Mike B
Starstruck
   
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: stevetaylor199]
#5085870 - 02/22/12 03:55 PM Attachment (19 downloads)
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Hi Steve-
The tube is an old 1960's "fiberglass" affair... measures ~7.3 inches O.D. (23.0" circ.), and the whole kit 'n caboodle weighs ~10 lbs w/o EP onboard. There's enough "grip" to the felt+rings to hold it fine at zenith, while still enabling the occasional turning to adjust the focuser position.
Actually, most "turning" for this purpose is accomplished while the tube is nearer *level*- as yes, doing so while pointed at zenith would cause a vertical slippage while twisting. Altho THAT works fine for re-balancing purposes- like for the occasional super-heavy-duty EP.
For me, i'm generally using this scope for a viewing planet- not generally swinging it all over the sky for a Messier marathon! So once the balance & focuser is set, it'll stay that way for quite a while.
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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/07/10
Loc: Davison, Michigan
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Mike B]
#5087911 - 02/23/12 07:40 PM
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That is a very short tube and should service you well on a GEM mount. I would like to get one of these scopes someday for photography. I've been window shopping that instrument for a couple years now. I couldn't imagine there being a better 6" scope outside of getting an APO.
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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 09/29/10
Loc: SE Indiana
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: stevetaylor199]
#5088148 - 02/23/12 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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My solution has been to use the standard felt-lined "rings", and to polish the scope's tube with a quality carnuba auto wax. This way it i can leave the rings clamped just tight enough to hold it from moving/sliding- yet with a slight torque i can smoothly twist the tube so that the focuser is precisely where i want it!
In like manner, i can also scootch the tube fore or aft, to help balance for a particularly heavy EP, or such.
You can dial in the preferred holding grip on the "rings" by tightening/loosening the thumb-screws that hold the ring halves together, like a clamp. For me, i leave the scope in its "rings" & dovetail rail, all as a unit. Then i simply install the dovetail into the receiver slot on the mount- and am then ready to observe. So the ring's tension/grip on the tube is seldom fiddled with!
I like the simplicity of that. I've gotta ask, though, what diameter tube, and how heavy is it? This solution works for you even when looking at the zenith?
I ,too, just loosen the clamps and let the felt slip.And good quality car wax helps the exterior of my scope tubes look a little nicer and shed dew.
Another rotating "tool" is a big rubber ring fastened tightly around the Newton tube towards the higher end,so that the tube can't slip thru the loosened clamps and fall to the ground. It also acts as a large bearing surface against the uppermost tube clamp.In my case,this is a 30 pound 10" Schmidt-Newtonian optical tube.
If you do imaging keep the tube fixed but for visual rotating the tube sure beats standing on your head to see.
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dvb
different Syndrome.
   
Reged: 06/18/05
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: BigC]
#5088318 - 02/24/12 01:38 AM
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I have found shorter Newtonians easier to use on an EQ - for example, an 8" f/4, like the Vixen R200SS or the now-discontinued Meade 8" Schmidt-Newtonian.
The smaller Newts are just easier to rotate with simple rings.
The Levy Mak-Newt would be a convenient size and also very light, so would be a good choice.
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Mike B
Starstruck
   
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: dvb]
#5088900 - 02/24/12 01:21 PM
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That is a very short tube and should service you well on a GEM mount.
Very short? Mine's a 6" F8... the tube is ~52 inches long! The only thing that keeps such a long moment-arm steady on the 'SVP' mount (rated for 20#) is the OTA's relatively light weight. Let's hear it for 1960's fiberglass!
Quote:
In my case, this is a 30 pound 10" Schmidt-Newtonian optical tube.
Now THAT's an OTA! Slip-sliding there would be a bit trickier... can easily see where that rubber-ring would see action! Nice idea.
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MRNUTTY
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/22/11
Loc: Mendon, MA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Mike B]
#5088973 - 02/24/12 01:54 PM
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I'm having Parallax Technology Fab a pair for Rotating Teflon Rings for my AT12IN. They're not going to be cheap, but I've ended up investing time and money in this OTA. Anything to increase the ease of use helps.
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Mike B
Starstruck
   
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: MRNUTTY]
#5088987 - 02/24/12 02:02 PM
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Anything to increase the ease of use helps.
That's it... once you've made the initial investment, felt the pinch, you'll have YEARS to forget about that one-time "pinch"... and every time you observe you'll thank yourself as you enjoy use of the entire scope, unencumbered- thanks to such an investment!
This, opposed to the "sweetness of cheapness" slogan.
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E_Look
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/06/08
Loc: near New York
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Mike B]
#5089172 - 02/24/12 04:15 PM
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I use a 8" Orion f/4.9 Newtonian on their SkyView Pro GEM. I have yet to install any rotating rings, but that's one of my next objectives for the piggy bank. But as to sheer manageablity, I feel that for me, a middle-aged guy who's not a big guy, and more used to sitting on his can, this is about the maximum size and weight combination I can handle. If you have to bring it each time out and into your house, as I do, I can manage the weight of this mount in one hand and the tripod in the other as I walk them no more than 30-50 feet (on the very few times I've had to move them longer distances, I have to stop for a second before moving on [shoulder & back & knees]). The OTA is itself rather light, but even the tube for a f/4.9 8" scope is kind of longish, and I've banged it (albeit lightly, not enough to damage or shake up the collimation) against door jambs, etc. And then in late autumn to early spring, the wind is sometimes an issue, but unless it's one of those crazy howling winds (which in New York usually means rain or snow anyway), only a rather stiff breeze will render it hard to observe due to shaking. But I suspect that if the f number is just a bit higher, even a light breeze may inordinately vibrate it.
I feel that depending on the person and his location, there is a practicality-imposed maximum limit for the size and weight of a GEM Newt.
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Cathal
member
   
Reged: 08/11/09
Loc: Ireland, land of mist and clou...
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: E_Look]
#5089311 - 02/24/12 05:56 PM
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It is possible to observe in comfort without slip rings, and slip rings can have unintended consequences.
I have an 8" newt of 1150mm focal length, sitting on an LXD-75 mount. I do not use the rotating tube at all, and I've found that with careful setup I do not need to get into any uncomfortable eyepiece positions.
There are issues with the rotation of the tube when mounted on a goto mount. Unless the tube construction is so exact that the mechanical axis of the tube is axial with the primary mirror axis when perfectly collimated, there will be a type of cone error introduced whenever the tube is rotated after the alignment has been completed.
My solution to the comfort issue? When I set up the scope of an evening, I put the focuser on the opposite side of the tube from the dovetail. This simple positioning is enough to ensure that the focuser will always be at least horizontal or higher. To have the focuser pointing below horizontal, the tube would have to be below the mount (with the counterweight arm above the horizontal) and that is after all why we do a meridian flip..
The only possible "uncomfortable" position is when I'm trying to look at something that's at roughly Pole altitude between NE and NW, and I have a single step (my storage toolbox) that makes this eyepiece position very easy. And with a good 3-star alignment I'm always getting what I want to see in the view of an 8.8mm UWA eyepiece.
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MRNUTTY
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/22/11
Loc: Mendon, MA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Cathal]
#5089322 - 02/24/12 06:03 PM
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@cathel good post. Other than what has been previously mentioned what other 'unintended consequences' would you be referring to?
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MRNUTTY
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/22/11
Loc: Mendon, MA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: Mike B]
#5089335 - 02/24/12 06:12 PM
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Quote:
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Anything to increase the ease of use helps.
That's it... once you've made the initial investment, felt the pinch, you'll have YEARS to forget about that one-time "pinch"... and every time you observe you'll thank yourself as you enjoy use of the entire scope, unencumbered- thanks to such an investment!
This, opposed to the "sweetness of cheapness" slogan.
To each his own, and I've got mine.
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Mike B
Starstruck
   
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Reflector Telescope comfortable to observe on EQ?
[Re: MRNUTTY]
#5089358 - 02/24/12 06:32 PM
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I think the "consequence" is:
Quote:
There are issues with the rotation of the tube when mounted on a goto mount. Unless the tube construction is so exact that the mechanical axis of the tube is axial with the primary mirror axis when perfectly collimated, there will be a type of cone error introduced whenever the tube is rotated after the alignment has been completed.
That's a very good point... hadn't thot of that angle. My 'SVP' isn't a "GoTo" mount, so isn't an issue there.
A similar consequence has been attributed to Newts with a rotating tube-end... attempting to achieve the same, comfortable EP positioning. Except there it's potential for collimation shift- yet due to the same mechanical issues you've described.
I've also seen & used a large (30" observatory) Newt with a rotating secondary, having FOUR detente positions at 90* around the upper tube- each with it's own focuser. I've always wondered about the collimation accuracy with such an arrangement...
Personally, i'd take the rings... let the GoTo be, at worse, a "GoNear" system... otherwise maintain collimation & comfort. Heck- my primary scope is a wooden Dob- the DSCs sometimes entail a bit of hunt-'n-peek at the end, anyway.
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