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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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Dr Morbius
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Reged: 02/06/07

Loc: ManorvilleNY-but not for long
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: BubbyD]
      #5089199 - 02/24/12 04:34 PM

Wow, that looks close to a 30 incher! Where is it located?

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Scotty H
super member


Reged: 11/15/10

Loc: Surrey,UK
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: BubbyD]
      #5089202 - 02/24/12 04:35 PM

Its not the size that counts...... Oh who the hell am i kidding

Or " THATS NO MOON, ITS A SPACESTATION!!"

Edited by Scotty H (02/24/12 04:37 PM)


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BubbyD
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/22/10

Loc: Troy, Ohio
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: Scotty H]
      #5089220 - 02/24/12 04:50 PM

32" RCOS.

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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5089344 - 02/24/12 06:18 PM

Quote:

I think Meade needs to sanity check their pricing model (and for that matter engineering model) for Max 20" ACF; bulk of the $35K pricing is the mount, not the telescope. I think dumping MAX 20" like the rest of LX400 line and coming up with a lighter/simpler 20” telescope of LX800 type and a less pricier mount to go along with that would be one of the good options to bring prices to a sane range. Otherwise, MAX 20” will remain just a good “picture” to look at, nothing more. Hint…hint…Meade engineering & marketing dept.!




You're saying this is _expensive_ for a 20-inch ACF SCT on a huge mount?!


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Mirzam
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Reged: 04/01/08

Loc: Lovettsville, VA
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: rmollise]
      #5089350 - 02/24/12 06:24 PM

Rod's comment is on target. For example, a Planewave 20" OTA is $32K (sans mount).

I think Meade would have a winner here (and maybe they already do) if they can address concerns about quality. I would sure hate to pay to ship the thing back to Mexico.

JimC


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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: Mirzam]
      #5089707 - 02/24/12 11:21 PM

Yeah - for a 35K telescope, they better be ready to make house calls! (And if they're confident in the product, they would.)

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mmalik
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? [Re: rmollise]
      #5089756 - 02/25/12 12:12 AM

Quote:

You're saying this is _expensive_ for a 20-inch ACF SCT on a huge mount?



Actually, I do feel prices are very "expensive" for 20" ACF; I feel it is quite feasible to bring prices down with simpler/lighter weight designs and serve masses instead of a few. That approach will generate even more profits for Meade. Kind of similar strategy Meade used to re-design RCX into LX800.


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skybsd
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Reged: 02/01/08

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5089935 - 02/25/12 07:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You're saying this is _expensive_ for a 20-inch ACF SCT on a huge mount?



Actually, I do feel prices are very "expensive" for 20" ACF; I feel it is quite feasible to bring prices down with simpler/lighter weight designs and serve masses instead of a few. That approach will generate even more profits for Meade. Kind of similar strategy Meade used to re-design RCX into LX800.




I always worry when I read stuff like that..,

Regards..,

skybsd


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: BubbyD]
      #5089945 - 02/25/12 08:08 AM

The Meade rep told you exactly what this was built excel at- looking cool.

The Max 20" is supposed to be a halo product, but it looks like a parasitic development program to me. Their SEC filings indicate a very modest development budget, and excelling at bread-and-butter products is how you keep the doors open. This thing diverts effort away from that. There are people out there issuing some amazing big mounts and even more amazing big OTAs, and frankly this product has no hope of outperforming systems from companies whose core competency is in large mounts and large OTAs.

For the money, RCOS and Plane wave make proven OTAs and Software Bisque has a proven mount, as do AP and Losmandy. And none of them are selling them as something designed to look cool to try to sell other products.

I can only hope this project's termination means necessary effort went into making the newest Meade products really great.

-Rich


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5089957 - 02/25/12 08:21 AM

Quote:

Yeah - for a 35K telescope, they better be ready to make house calls! (And if they're confident in the product, they would.)




Thus far, Meade has gone a long way to support the Max scopes out there.


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5089958 - 02/25/12 08:22 AM

Quote:


Actually, I do feel prices are very "expensive" for 20" ACF; I feel it is quite feasible to bring prices down with simpler/lighter weight designs and serve masses instead of a few. That approach will generate even more profits for Meade. Kind of similar strategy Meade used to re-design RCX into LX800.




Looked at the price of a simple 20-inch Dobsonian lately?


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5089965 - 02/25/12 08:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You're saying this is _expensive_ for a 20-inch ACF SCT on a huge mount?



Actually, I do feel prices are very "expensive" for 20" ACF; I feel it is quite feasible to bring prices down with simpler/lighter weight designs and serve masses instead of a few. That approach will generate even more profits for Meade. Kind of similar strategy Meade used to re-design RCX into LX800.




The 16" LX200 has been available for nearly two decades at well under half the price of this big Meade and it hasn't served the masses. They build maybe ten per year (according to the Meade rep I asked several years ago). The masses are being served with more portable, less expensive gear. The big Cass market is a niche market and the big Meade has already established a new, very low price point within that market.


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5089977 - 02/25/12 08:53 AM

Quote:

For the money, RCOS and Plane wave make proven OTAs and Software Bisque has a proven mount, as do AP and Losmandy.




Of the mount manufacturers you mention, only AP offers a mount that will comfortably carry a 20" class OTA with imaging accessories. Software Bisque and Losmandy aren't in the game (though a very few others are). For the money of the Meade, you can't get close to a 20" class mount plus a 20" RCOS or Planewave OTA.

I'm not saying that anyone should run out and buy the Meade; I'm certainly not going to. I'm not a Meade fanboy, either - there's no Meade gear here at all. I just think the big Meade deserves recognition for what it is - a new, lower level entry into the big Cass field and an opportunity for folks who want to get into that class but who don't want to pay for an RCOS/El Capitan setup.


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rcdk
super member


Reged: 11/13/10

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5090062 - 02/25/12 09:59 AM

Quote:

They build maybe ten per year (according to the Meade rep I asked several years ago).




I would believe that about the 20", but the 16"? There seems to be a lot more of them out there than that. Still, even price aside the logistics of a 16" SCT pretty much limit it to such a specific set of circumstances that it can hardly be a mass-market item. A 16" dob can easily be a driveway scope.

When you retire to the country a 16" Meade would make a nice observatory scope that may cost less than the structure you put it in.


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freestar8n
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Reged: 10/12/07

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5090198 - 02/25/12 11:25 AM

Quote:

Of the mount manufacturers you mention, only AP offers a mount that will comfortably carry a 20" class OTA with imaging accessories. Software Bisque and Losmandy aren't in the game (though a very few others are). For the money of the Meade, you can't get close to a 20" class mount plus a 20" RCOS or Planewave OTA.




The cdk20 weighs 140 pounds and the carrying capacity of the paramount ME is stated at 150 lb. The two are offered as a package by Planewave at $49,214 and there are example images on the web showing good results from the combination.

The cdk20 is a flat field design at f/6.8 whereas the ACF has a curved field at f/8, so they are not optically equivalent in the first place.

I looked for example images with the 20" ACF on max mount, and I only found a couple that were not very compelling. It has been around for a while, so it seems like there should be good images with a large chip that show the optics and guiding are both working well. I couldn't find such examples with a search but I could find several for the cdk20 on paramount - and tons for the overall cdk line.

Frank


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kennyrichmond
sage
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Reged: 11/29/06

Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: freestar8n]
      #5090467 - 02/25/12 02:36 PM

Frank,
You should check this information. It's the RC's and CDK's that need the flatteners, not the Meade. Jason Ware has many examples of 20" RCX photography. My examples are taken with a Canon 20Da and not up to his quality. Then there is the University of Ohio where the 20" RCX(as it was originally known) and the MaxMount is used for exo-planet discovery. Me, well I've gotten lazy so I just hang on a Seibert Black Knight Binoviewer with a pair of Panoptic 35's. It's not generally known, but a free retrofit coming up will bring the tracking accuracy on the Max Mount to a sub arc second level. Google Jason's web site.

Ken Richmond
Philadelphia


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freestar8n
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Reged: 10/12/07

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: kennyrichmond]
      #5090490 - 02/25/12 02:55 PM

Quote:

It's the RC's and CDK's that need the flatteners, not the Meade




CDK's don't *need* a flattener - they *have* a flattener. RC and ACF don't *have* a flattener, so they *have* a curved field.

Frank


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kennyrichmond
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Reged: 11/29/06

Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: freestar8n]
      #5090533 - 02/25/12 03:27 PM

Yeah, right. I forgot.


Ken Richmond


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Griffin!
sage


Reged: 09/12/10

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: kennyrichmond]
      #5090588 - 02/25/12 04:04 PM

Kenny,

That's great that Meade is supplying you (and I assume other Max owners) with free upgrades. Any other details on what the upgrade may include?


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Meade Max 20" ACF??? new [Re: freestar8n]
      #5090601 - 02/25/12 04:15 PM

Quote:



I looked for example images with the 20" ACF on max mount, and I only found a couple that were not very compelling. It has been around for a while, so it seems like there should be good images with a large chip that show the optics and guiding are both working well. I couldn't find such examples with a search but I could find several for the cdk20 on paramount - and tons for the overall cdk line.

Frank




Have you looked at Jason Ware's imaging with this scope? If not, you should.

It's not surprising that there's not much from the scope on the web. It's fairly expensive as amateur telescopes go, and has not been in sustained production that long. Also, not many folks really pine for a 20-incher with all that focal length unless they are set on doing images of small-medium galaxies or planetaries.


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