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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5190885 - 04/25/12 11:53 PM

You were rude on the other thread, and I let that pass.

Markus can do whatever he wishes. If he makes a 6" f/8 OTA I might bite. I'm not in the market for an objective. I tossed in the longer focal length to allow more latitude for correction, not as an ultimatum.

I'm fine with whatever Markus decides to do, and both would be fine with me, though I'd only have interest in the OTA.

But I'm not interested in someone else telling me what I should want, if it's different than what they want.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: BillP]
      #5190891 - 04/25/12 11:57 PM

You nailed it Bill. $3500 is triplet 130mm APO territory. For a visual observer, an FPL-53 doublet that trades a little color correction for extra light grasp, resolution, and quicker cooling is a better deal. Not so much for imagers, I think (who would likely trade 10mm for improved color correction), but for folks gathering photons with their eyes, it should be sublime. I'd prefer f/8 to f/7 though.

- Jim


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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191219 - 04/26/12 08:35 AM

Quote:

You were rude on the other thread, and I let that pass.

Markus can do whatever he wishes. If he makes a 6" f/8 OTA I might bite. I'm not in the market for an objective. I tossed in the longer focal length to allow more latitude for correction, not as an ultimatum.

I'm fine with whatever Markus decides to do, and both would be fine with me, though I'd only have interest in the OTA.

But I'm not interested in someone else telling me what I should want, if it's different than what they want.




Sorry you thought I was being rude by simply stating what this thread was talking about.( F/8 ota) That certainly wasn't my intention, and I really thought that, by your reaction, that you just hadn't read this entire thread. If it must be an F/9 ota to keep you happy, then that's fine by me too.

Again Jan, I sincerely apologize if I gave the impression of being rude.


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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5191390 - 04/26/12 10:21 AM

I agree with everything you said (though I've seen you argue oppositely, that a doublet wouldn't necessarily be cheaper, when I asserted that then, as now), EXCEPT that I've been trying to get someone interested in making a 6" ED doublet for quite some time now. The TEC 140 has been around all this time. I like that scope, but it isn't what I'm interested in here. I'm not really interested in a 5 1/2" scope. If I were, I'd already have bought the TEC.

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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191397 - 04/26/12 10:26 AM

Perhaps I'm missing something... APM is going to make a 140 and a 6" - why keep going on about not wanting a 140?

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191412 - 04/26/12 10:39 AM

so , here have now the design info for the Doublet 152 mm F/8, using Chinese FK61 ( like FPL 51) plus Lanthanium Glas







Its performance in colorcorrection is about equal to a 6"F/30 achromat and it should be called Semi-Apo , like many other ED doublets , so we wil do the same as others and call it ED-Apo :-)

The sensivie ED Eelement we placed on the rear inner side for good protection.
The RC Index is 2.6

Now we setting the tolerances for the glas and cell and start to design the tube mechanics

Tomorrow I go to NEAF, see some of you there


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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191506 - 04/26/12 11:33 AM

Because that's the thread subject...

I laud Markus for taking on this project, and I'm certain any scope bearing his brand would be a scope worth owning.

However, this was a thread about 6" scopes, before it drifted into 5 1/2" ones, so I've just tried to remain true to the original thread's stated direction, which also coincides with my interests, where a 140 doesn't.

That's not to say anything negative about a 140. The TEC is a great scope, and I'm sure an APM would be, too, based on the superb overall quality of previous scopes from Markus...

But in a 6" discussion, a different aperture is at least slightly off-topic, even if the smaller aperture scope itself may be superb. Personally, I don't mind diverging from topic, when it's valid to consider alternatives. But I don't think it's either helpful to try and tell others how they should think, or try to bend others to one's own point of view. Just put the facts all out there, and let folks decide for themselves...

Same thing goes for Markus. This is a great venue for folks to let it be known what their interests are, and gives him information so he can make good judgments about what might become popular products, if added to his line.

This seems like a good use for this forum; rather than trying to influence others to one's own point of view.


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191586 - 04/26/12 12:15 PM

Take a deep breath and read slowly: A P M w i l l m a k e b o t h s c o p e s ! !

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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191630 - 04/26/12 12:45 PM

I think we're all interpreting what Markus is saying.

What he seems to be saying, in the last few posts, is that he's proceeding with feasibility data for the various options, but is leaning toward building a 140 OTA, and a 6" f/8 objective in cell that can be adapted to the Celestron/Skywatcher tube assembly.

It looks like he will proceed with the process as originally outlined, providing prices for the 140 OTA, the retrofittable 6" in cell, and a 6" f/8 OTA. But he *seems* (my interpretation, and repeating from the paragraph above) to favor producing a 140 OTA and a 6" f/8 in cell for retro-fitting to existing tube assemblies, since a cheaper 6" f/8 might jeopardize sales of a more expensive 6" scope he's already coming out with. Easy to understand any hesitation on his part, in that respect.

But, again, that's my interpretation; not necessarily what he may actually have in mind. I'm sure, in due time, once Markus has had a chance to evaluate his options, the needs/interests of his customers as stated here in this forum, he'll come to a conclusion based on our input, and his needs to be able to make a profit from production of whichever selection our concensus makes the best fit for APM (profitable sales) & it's customers (happy campers with new scopes to suit their needs/wishes).


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5191637 - 04/26/12 12:49 PM

There is no practical differene Jan. APM will be importing the objectives in their cell from the Far East and will build the OTA around it in Germany. They do this all the time. I have no doubt whatsoever that APM will build an OTA around a 6" f/8 lens if you ask them. Send an e-mail to Markus.

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191900 - 04/26/12 03:22 PM

Hi All,

looks to me like some confusion came up, so let me clarify it again.

On first look from my designer it looked like the glas for the 6" would be to expensive, but then the manufactur offered his rough price and I saw we are again withhin the required retail price range

so status of today is

- we going to offer a 140 mm F/7 doublet OTA with FPL 53
- we going to offer a 152 mm F/8 doublet OTA with FK61
- we going to offer the 152mm F/8 lens in cell with adapter for excisting 6" achomat tubes

both models are attractive , so we go with both


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5191912 - 04/26/12 03:28 PM

Thanks for confirming what I thought were your intentions, Markus.
These are some of the most exciting product announcements I have seen in years!


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GShaffer
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/28/09

Loc: Bogart, Ga USA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191944 - 04/26/12 03:49 PM

I will be in for the lens/cell to fit my AR6 for sure

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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5191960 - 04/26/12 04:01 PM

Agreed!!!

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AlienRatDog
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/15/05

Loc: Ann Arbor
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5192087 - 04/26/12 05:14 PM

Does it make me a geek because a tear ran down my face reading that both a 140 and 152mm scopes are being made?

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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: AlienRatDog]
      #5192232 - 04/26/12 06:29 PM

Actually, if Markus is able to pull this all off, he's going to make a BUNCH of folks VERY happy!!! I'll be one, too!!!

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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5192398 - 04/26/12 07:53 PM

Quote:

Actually, if Markus is able to pull this all off, he's going to make a BUNCH of folks VERY happy!!! I'll be one, too!!!




Like I said.


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SeattleScott
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/14/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: watcher]
      #5192755 - 04/27/12 12:48 AM

How many of us have nice 4" refractors for their portability and fast cool down times for grab and go stargazing? I have been looking at the EON 120 as an upgrade for my 100ED but despite the nice features, I would like to double the light grasp if I am going to upgrade. A 140mm accomplishes that. And I want to mount it on my CG5. Not saying I wouldn't consider the 6" if it can be mounted on a CG5 though. My 100ED is color-free except for the lunar limb and I am pretty happy with that. I can live with a touch of false color if it saves me thousands of dollars and allows me to use my portable CG5 mount.

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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/13/07

Loc: Carmel, NY
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5193069 - 04/27/12 09:28 AM

Thank Markus for doing allot of ground work, I would have like to meet up with you at Neaf this weekend but a death in my family has canceled the plans for this weekends trip. I would like to know what are the plans on the 6" F8 doublet in the cell to retorfit to the celestron/skywatcher tubes might be as a projected cost to the end user. I think that would be the way I would go, have a good time at Neaf.
Jim


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BillP
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5193167 - 04/27/12 10:44 AM

Quote:

Hi All,

looks to me like some confusion came up, so let me clarify it again.

On first look from my designer it looked like the glas for the 6" would be to expensive, but then the manufactur offered his rough price and I saw we are again withhin the required retail price range

so status of today is

- we going to offer a 140 mm F/7 doublet OTA with FPL 53
- we going to offer a 152 mm F/8 doublet OTA with FK61
- we going to offer the 152mm F/8 lens in cell with adapter for excisting 6" achomat tubes

both models are attractive , so we go with both




Now...if you could only bring them with you to NEAF Glad you are tackling the 140...think you will get a lot of traction out of that one, as well as with the 6" cell.


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