watcher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Vondragonnoggin]
#5174196 - 04/15/12 06:50 PM
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Have a great vacation! Be sure to surround yourself with protective foam so nothing happens to you on vacation! We need this scope!
I was out observing last night with my MCT 150 at F12 and realized that a 6" F/8 is going to be the perfect compromise for a lot of folks, and I am even happy with a 42mm finder eyepiece in the MCT, so I'll be happy with this one. I also just found out I apparently stopped being stupid about taxes for 20 some years and filed just in time to see that when this scope gets here, I'll have the funds immediately for it!
I am setting aside $4000 for this new scope and the lx80 provided the lx80 comes out and is not riddled with issues, in which case, I think I'll have to go GEM completely, so let's hope it has the big 3" or 2.5" rotatable focuser like the AT or CT scopes or that SV 2.5" rotatable or equivalent.
Any chance of doing a removable section so you can make it BV friendly with a little removal of a section and moving the focuser? I'm going to venture a guess as to a NO on that to keep in price wishes, but would still be cool.
Not 100% sure, but I think we found out in an earlier thread, that the Stellarvue focuser is the result of a Chinese ripoff of a Markus Ludes design. I think Markus also mentioned that this scope would have this 2 1/2 in focuser. Sounds like no focuser replacement will be necessary for this scope! 
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skyjim
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/13/07
Loc: Long Island, NY
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: watcher]
#5174911 - 04/16/12 09:10 AM
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Joe, I have that SV focuser on the AT152, its nice, not a FT but not far off, I think the FT would handle a wee bit more pounds off the back at zenith but am please with it so far. This scope sounds like its gonna be really nice and I am already listing my M703 for sale to help pay for this puppy  .
I do give up the compactness of the MCT but I will just have to live with that and eat my wheaties!
Jim
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SteveG
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/27/06
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: skyjim]
#5175274 - 04/16/12 01:30 PM
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Put me on the list too! An affordable 6" f8 doublet with quality optics is what I'm looking for.
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: skyjim]
#5175943 - 04/16/12 08:00 PM
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Joe, I have that SV focuser on the AT152, its nice, not a FT but not far off, I think the FT would handle a wee bit more pounds off the back at zenith but am please with it so far. This scope sounds like its gonna be really nice and I am already listing my M703 for sale to help pay for this puppy .
I do give up the compactness of the MCT but I will just have to live with that and eat my wheaties!
Jim
I'm sure if it's the original that the Chinese producer copied and sold to Stellarvue, that it will be close enough to Feathertouch for my use. I'm still hoping that they will sell out really quick, and open the door for a 140mm size. If it doesn't go that way, I'll make due with the 6, but I really don't like to take any scope out of my yard that needs more than a CG5. Even the C6R is pushing it. An Atlas class mount would be better. A poor man's TEC 140 is more my idea of perfect, but we'll see how it goes!
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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
Reged: 05/01/03
Loc: Germany
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: watcher]
#5185229 - 04/22/12 06:37 PM
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Hello,
I am back from vacation and have had a lot fun with my little daughter at the sand beach :-)
Meanwhile I have some little news
a positive and a not so positive one
Normaly we should start with the bad one first
6"F/8 poor man doublet with chinese glas:
- BAK7 + FK61 , result would be about like a 6"F/20 achromat , pure glas blank cost about US $ 1,650
- LAF53 + FK61, result would be about like a 6"F/30 achromat , pure glas blank cost about US $ 2,050
on top of the glas cost we have the cost for
- polishing
- coating
- cell + assembling and optical testing
- tube
- focuser
- rings
- maybe a case
- shipping from China to USA
- 10% US import duties
- some profit
Non of the both could come out at $ 3,000 retail, the cheaper one could come out below 4,000 $, but thats not a colorcorrection I want
So we will calculate the better acceptable one and see what price really comes out. The better one could may be interested as a upgrate for excisting achromat optical tubes 6"F/8 ???
now the good news :
A 140 mm F/7 or F/8 FPL53 doublet Apo optical tube can be done incl. 2.5" focuser, set of rings, finder shoe, case for around $ 3,500 retail...if we order minimum 300 pc.
I have a personal feeling the 140 mm should be the way to go and at this price point, I believe we can sell more then 300 pc
your comments are welcome
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sky_dave
member
Reged: 07/10/08
Loc: Northern Colorado
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: APM M.Ludes]
#5185600 - 04/22/12 11:32 PM
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Markus, the 140mm FPL53 doublet, please! Go long, F8 or F9. This is a visual instrument. At F7 the imagers will never stop with the TEC140 comparisons. Let them buy a triplet! At that price range this is an instrument I want.
Dave
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: APM M.Ludes]
#5185621 - 04/22/12 11:59 PM
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Markus. This is actually music to my ears! As I have said many times, I think that a 140mm F/7 doublet would be comfortable for visual use on a CG-5 As a biggest portable refractor, it would be a great poor man's TEC 140. If this is the way you go, I am a definite buyer. I like long scopes, but I think keeping it on a GG-5 is a real advantage that a longer 140mm or the 6" wouldn't have shared.
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: sky_dave]
#5185629 - 04/23/12 12:10 AM
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Markus, the 140mm FPL53 doublet, please! Go long, F8 or F9. This is a visual instrument. At F7 the imagers will never stop with the TEC140 comparisons. Let them buy a triplet! At that price range this is an instrument I want.
Dave
Let them make the comparisons. We will have a high quality doublet for visual. Those who want the imaging can always pay $2000.00 more for the TEC. Who knows, this doublet might turn out to be a good imaging scope anyway. At least at the price point.
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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/21/10
Loc: Southern CA, USA
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: watcher]
#5185660 - 04/23/12 12:47 AM
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Would definitely not be interested at all at F/8, or F/9. Maybe at F/7, but would have liked to see an F/6 or F/7, 6" doublet that performed like an F/12 or F/15 achro. I guess I am in the major minority. Particularly the F/6. Short and stubby, but performs like a behemoth F/12 or 15. Fast enough to get wide, but still could use a semi-apo filter and give decent planetary.
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Traveler
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/19/07
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Vondragonnoggin]
#5185715 - 04/23/12 01:37 AM
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Markus, about the 140mm f7-8: what will be the European price?
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Cyclop_si
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/13/08
Loc: Slovenia
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Vondragonnoggin]
#5185732 - 04/23/12 01:47 AM
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Would definitely not be interested at all at F/8, or F/9. Maybe at F/7, but would have liked to see an F/6 or F/7, 6" doublet that performed like an F/12 or F/15 achro. I guess I am in the major minority. Particularly the F/6. Short and stubby, but performs like a behemoth F/12 or 15. Fast enough to get wide, but still could use a semi-apo filter and give decent planetary.
I am also with you. Or even better, something slightly larger, like 160+mm f/7 ...
However I think this whole think should be spitted into two project, 140mm visual doublet and 160+mm visual doublet. It is logical to go with 140mm version first, since market for this version is larger.
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HCR32
sage
Reged: 08/27/10
Loc: Australia
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Cyclop_si]
#5185899 - 04/23/12 07:26 AM
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The obvious choice would be to run with the 140s which would inturn allow for a 160s market with a smaller amount of risk.
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Vondragonnoggin]
#5186168 - 04/23/12 11:15 AM
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Would definitely not be interested at all at F/8, or F/9. Maybe at F/7, but would have liked to see an F/6 or F/7, 6" doublet that performed like an F/12 or F/15 achro. I guess I am in the major minority. Particularly the F/6. Short and stubby, but performs like a behemoth F/12 or 15. Fast enough to get wide, but still could use a semi-apo filter and give decent planetary.
Eric.
I think your best bet in the current market is the scope that I'm getting from ISTAR. At F/5 it will give wide fields to die for. It will perform like an F/6.75, and should be "not all that bad" if you point it at a planet with a semi APO filter. Not quite the all around performer that this 140 would be, but something that does a little better than the low power Milky Way sweeper.They're making a few right now for delivery in about 4 weeks. I'll be reporting on it's performance ASAP when I get mine if you want to wait for the next batch.
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Vondragonnoggin
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/21/10
Loc: Southern CA, USA
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: watcher]
#5186204 - 04/23/12 11:32 AM
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I looked at those. An F/5 performing like an F/6.75 is good, but not quite like performance of an F/6 with color or reaction of an F/15 or F/12. Will definitely be reading your review of it. Mounting requirements just start getting too much at F/8 or F/9. If I can find a 6" that performs well at less than 27lbs for the OTA, I think I can be OK with quite a few mounts that are reasonably priced or my current mount. Really would be looking for something like the R60 lens in an F/5, but sure is a long wait.....
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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
Reged: 05/01/03
Loc: Germany
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Vondragonnoggin]
#5186263 - 04/23/12 12:08 PM
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Hi Everybody
today things change again :-)
The Glas prices I posted yesterday have been the guess of my optical designer using catalouge prices. Today I got the manufactur estimation of the expensive 6"F/8 doublet and it looks like we c an do that too , estimated price for the expensive 6"F/8 doublet between 3500 and 3900 $
so whats now ???? 140 mm F/7 ? F/8 ? or a 6"F/8 ? or both ?
The european price will be about equal in Euro as it is in USA in US $ thanks to customs and our crazy 19% VAT, so US Price 3,500 $ means European price Euro 3,500 incl. VAT
now we have to many choices
we run a vote or we think about 140 and 152 ?
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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/09/09
Loc: Betwixt and Between
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: APM M.Ludes]
#5186407 - 04/23/12 01:13 PM
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I'd still go for the expensive 6" f/8 lens upgrade preferably. If it isn't created I might consider the 140 f/8 scope.
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: Crow Haven]
#5186526 - 04/23/12 02:33 PM
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My vote's for the 140 f/7. Do you think we could see spot diagrams for the f/7 and f/8?
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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/21/07
Loc: St. Louis, MO
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: APM M.Ludes]
#5186555 - 04/23/12 02:52 PM
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Hi Everybody
today things change again :-)
The Glas prices I posted yesterday have been the guess of my optical designer using catalouge prices. Today I got the manufactur estimation of the expensive 6"F/8 doublet and it looks like we c an do that too , estimated price for the expensive 6"F/8 doublet between 3500 and 3900 $
so whats now ???? 140 mm F/7 ? F/8 ? or a 6"F/8 ? or both ?
The european price will be about equal in Euro as it is in USA in US $ thanks to customs and our crazy 19% VAT, so US Price 3,500 $ means European price Euro 3,500 incl. VAT
now we have to many choices
we run a vote or we think about 140 and 152 ?
JMO, but I think if you can take on two projects, your best and quickest return on investment would be with a complete OTA F/7 140mm, and a replacement 6" lens for all the Syntas out there. Make a lot of people happy that way, and if you sell out the production quick, you can always produce the 6" complete OTA. Anywhere between 3500 and 3900 is still a decent price for a 6" semi-Apo.
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HCR32
sage
Reged: 08/27/10
Loc: Australia
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: watcher]
#5186565 - 04/23/12 02:58 PM
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MY vote goes to what ever is going to be visually a better performer!!!!
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Cyclop_si
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/13/08
Loc: Slovenia
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Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes
[Re: HCR32]
#5186586 - 04/23/12 03:12 PM
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My vote go to largest one, which can be mounted on Atlas class mount. Therefore if I have to decide between 140 and 152, 152 is my vote, specially since price for both are similar, and visually I can tolerate some more CA on larger option ...
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