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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377154 - 08/20/12 09:06 AM

How about that: Roland and Yuri posting that they got bad FPL53 and here claim was rejected by Ohara !!!! now my manufacturer have very good relation with Chengdu and fell save ghere and in good hands if they have a claim, that is reason enough and lower also manufacturers risk of money lost. also with FPL53 we would be easy to much more expensive , so nobody would buy it anymore. We all have had the idea cheap and good.
On Top of that who proove that those claiming they use Fpl53 , really use FPL 53 and not FK61 ??? I have open hears and bring this up because something arrived at my ears.
We do what we say or we dont bring it out , quality yes, *BLEEP* not


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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5377396 - 08/20/12 11:57 AM

Yes Markus, you take the exact words out of my mind when you are saying :"Who says they are really using FPL-53 and not FK-61...."

I was also thinking about that, but forgot to mention it in my previous reply.....

But if this is indeed the case then we can't believe anyone anymore, any cheap brand.....I hope that manufacturers are not selling us FK61 for FPL53


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SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377547 - 08/20/12 01:07 PM

Ambiorix, for the record his name is Roland, not Ronaldo.

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Doug Culbertson
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/06/05

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: SteveG]
      #5377608 - 08/20/12 01:48 PM

He probably meant Rolando, which is how RC sometimes signs his posts on Astromart.

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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5377846 - 08/20/12 03:51 PM

Holy Moly, you're ansolutely right, it's indeed Rolando

I don't know how I came up with Ronaldo....was probably confusing him with the soccer star Ronaldo....unconsciously..

...anyway the guy is so well known and respected here everyone knows who I was talking about, even if his name was spelled wrong...

and maybe he can play a bit of soccer too

Anyway, thanks for reminding me


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Doug Culbertson
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/06/05

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5377864 - 08/20/12 03:58 PM

Don't know about soccer, but he's a pretty fair ballroom dancer!

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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5378794 - 08/21/12 04:42 AM

My german hobby designer gerd düring played a bit with designs for FPL53 douplet paired with MBM51 is worse then our FK61 with Lanthanium we choosed.Rolando have his doubt from his experienced, thats fine, but Rolando does not test always actual improvements and china is improving daily, just see how superb they doing the optics inthe esprit triplets, Rolando stated in past China will never do such high end optics, today they do it in serial production, so time moves on and Rolando do not check every day this movements

My manufacturer is maybe stupid, maybe not, if he is stupid he waste hismoney, not mine, not yours, I believe he is not stupid :-)


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SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5379481 - 08/21/12 02:09 PM

Rolando certainly has a reputation, and I would love to own any of his products, but I agree with Markus in that this testing took place many years ago and things have changed. I have an ED doublet from Taiwan that performs admirably, and I welcome these new 6" ED doublets, even if they do show a little bit of color!

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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: SteveG]
      #5380458 - 08/22/12 04:08 AM

Yes Markus, indeed RoLaNdo did say in the past that those Chinese scopes where sh*#, but so did you, all the time, if I recall correctly, and so did I, as did probably everybody else:) And today we are all proven wrong by those Chinese Wizards, just as we were all proven wrong by those Japanese and their no-good cars, remember,some 30 odd years or so ago? A Lexus or Toyota is today every inch as good a car as our own brands, to say the least, and now it seems to be going in the same direction with the Chinese apo's...

If you would have told me a couple of years ago that Markus Ludes himself would one day declare that a Chinese "rather" cheap apo, like the Esprit, was every bit as good as his own APM LZOS' , TEC's, AP's etc..., I would have declared you completely mad:)

If you would have told me that Ludes himself was going to bring out apo's with his posh APM name on them, with Chengdu Chinese glass in it, I would have suggested that you were totally insane:)

And yes Steve, indeed me too, I would welcome a 6" ED doublet, wich would put 15 pounds on the scales and which would have the same quality as...say a Takahashi FS 152 perhaps...and would cost no more than a good 4" apo....who wouldn't!

And about that colour, let me tell you this : I have owned APM115 LZOS, APM130 LZOS, Televue NP101, Takahashi Sky 90, TEC 140, all fine scopes, no doubt about it, but I remember a couple of years ago we were with a couple of friends looking at the skies with my friend's Skywatcher 150/1200 achromat at Saturn, and guess what, the false colour did not bother me one single bit, as a.m.o.f., I had one hell of a hard time seeing any at all!!! It was certainly one of the best views of Saturn I have ever seen! The seeing was perfect, so this is much more important than a tiny bit of chromatic abberation...!So if Markus' 6" ED will be any good at all, it will be more than enough for visual observing.

In my opinion, the colour problems in refractors have been highly exagerated in the last couple of years. People are more and more aware that a good f8 or so, doublet, is more than enough for "visual" astronomy. Photography is another matter, here we need zero, nada, colour off course. But almost every brand seems to be bringing out triplets, in very heavy tubes, with monster focusers today, as if the whole world is going to do photography. Those triplets do need A LOT of time to cool down, are very heavy and cost a lot of money, are usually very short focused, so very short eyepieces are needed, with their own disadvantages etc...

So yes, finally someone is putting some effort in bringing out some refractors for the visual observer, great! I wish Takahashi and the "others" would do the same....instead of gambling on the photographers only!


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BillP
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5387238 - 08/25/12 11:42 PM

Quote:

Rolando stated in past China will never do such high end optics, today they do it in serial production, so time moves on ...




Statements like these are never true as time changes all things. Given they wanted to be so, it was inevitable that China would become experts in optical manufacturing. I think what is really surprising though, is that they are able to do it at such affordable pricing. This was the real context of the Roland's posts I saw on this topic. I believe he felt that if the Chinese ever did start making optics at high specs with repeatable quality, that the pricing would end up being the same. But that is not what has happened.


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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: BillP]
      #5387983 - 08/26/12 01:42 PM

Exactly.

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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5396747 - 08/31/12 01:28 PM

Markus, I hope you will use common sense by supplying a case in which the scope will fit with a 2" diagonal and an eyepiece (1,25" one) attached to it. I find this sooo much easier when setting up in the dark. I just cannot understand why everyone is suppying cases that are exactly the length of the tubes and not one mm longer....once set up, you will have to insert a diagonal an eyepiece...in pitch black darkness.....Think of it and supply something like Televue does...now that's what I call a smart case:) And let's be honest, those extra couple of inches will not make the case more expensive or bulkier at all! And then there is the advantage when you are using a balance sensible mount like a giro. When setting up without a diagonal and eyepiece, the thing might flip over with the lens side crashing into the tripod.....when you set it up without diagonal and eyepiece and first balance the whole chabla and afterwards insert a heavy 2" diagonal the whole chabla will once again crash into the tripod, this time with the focuser side...I know you can lock the axles etc...but it is easier, quicker and safer if the case is long enough to accept the scope with at least the diagonal attached to it, like the ones from Televue...Just my 2 euro-cents

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Cyclop_si
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/13/08

Loc: Slovenia
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5396892 - 08/31/12 03:00 PM

Quote:

Markus, I hope you will use common sense by supplying a case in which the scope will fit with a 2" diagonal and an eyepiece (1,25" one) attached to it. I find this sooo much easier when setting up in the dark. I just cannot understand why everyone is suppying cases that are exactly the length of the tubes and not one mm longer....once set up, you will have to insert a diagonal an eyepiece...in pitch black darkness.....Think of it and supply something like Televue does...now that's what I call a smart case:) And let's be honest, those extra couple of inches will not make the case more expensive or bulkier at all! And then there is the advantage when you are using a balance sensible mount like a giro. When setting up without a diagonal and eyepiece, the thing might flip over with the lens side crashing into the tripod.....when you set it up without diagonal and eyepiece and first balance the whole chabla and afterwards insert a heavy 2" diagonal the whole chabla will once again crash into the tripod, this time with the focuser side...I know you can lock the axles etc...but it is easier, quicker and safer if the case is long enough to accept the scope with at least the diagonal attached to it, like the ones from Televue...Just my 2 euro-cents



I agree with above thinking for relatively small scopes. However for 6" f/8 or larger besats, I prefere to have single most bulkiest/heviest thing in one box, everything else in other box(es).

My opinion is that it is worth to spare a minute or two more for assembly and keep single largest thing as light and managable as posible.

Just my


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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Cyclop_si]
      #5397718 - 09/01/12 07:14 AM

Cyclop, I see your point, but let me tell you that even the 6" f8 is far from a beast at not even 7 kilograms at the scales! This is not exactly a bulky heavy thing I should think. And the 140 will even be lighter and smaller...
So, both these things are very highly portable.....and are relatively small scopes, especially the 140mm!

So, I donnot agree with you on this, because if Markus would make the' case just as long as the scope, people like yourself, who prefer just the scope in the case are fine, but folks who prefer taking the scope with diagonal and eypiece at once out of the case are not...
If Markus makes the case just a few cm's longer to allow us to insert a diagonal in the scope, should we want to,everybody is happy. If you don't want the diagonal in the scope, just leave it out, and put it in a seperate box, if you really feel you need to carry more different things into the field, why not, your preferance, not mine, if I want it there I insert it in the focuser ..

So, I still feel the case should be long enough to accept the scope with the diagonal inserted! And by the way, the case only needs to be like 5cm's or so longer, so this will not make it less portable at all....


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5398014 - 09/01/12 12:10 PM

It was difficult to make a decision about the case and whats goes in to keep it compact. finaly we found a great solution that tube with rings, finder bracket and finder fit in without making the case to much bigger.
sorry no place for the stardiagonal. the Stardiagonal is a open optic like eyepieces and most customers I know have the diagonal stored in the eyepiece case.
The idea of taking a scope out of the case and fit it balansed onto the mount does not work, because a light or heavy eyepiece will destroy your calculation, also a focuser need to be racked out when observing stars and will change the balansing point


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Ambiorix
member


Reged: 05/01/11

Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: APM M.Ludes]
      #5398338 - 09/01/12 03:50 PM

Well in that case I think I do not want the case and will put the scope in a carry bag or something...

I suppose I can buy it without the case?

I just prefer a case which will fit the scope with it's diagonal and a 1,25" eyepiece attached to it, so I can just take the scope out and I'm ready to observe....my preference by far...


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Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51°N 4°E
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Ambiorix]
      #5398373 - 09/01/12 04:29 PM

I'm completely with you on this, Ambiorix!

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Jan Owen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5398582 - 09/01/12 07:25 PM

Since the original direction for this scope was to deliver a scope that was *affordable*, it's beginning to look like other similar situations before, where folks start driving the price ever upward by adding peripheral extras beyond the basic scope.

So, as some folks' eyes may be lighting up with the extras Markus may be coaxed into adding, my interest wanes.

I have no need, or interest, for a case at all, as long as the scope arrives safely.

Just my perspective...

Edited by Jan Owen (09/01/12 07:32 PM)


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Jan Owen]
      #5399079 - 09/02/12 03:10 AM

I agree, Jan. I can build a case myself, but I can't build the scope or lens myself. I want apo goodness at an affordable price. I don't need perfection, nor can I afford it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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APM M.Ludes
Vendor (APM Telescopes)
*****

Reged: 05/01/03

Loc: Germany
Re: New 6" F/8 ED Doublets from APM Telescopes new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5399444 - 09/02/12 11:18 AM

The case like the scope is made in china and we required a case on top of double boxed telescope, because from my experience the chinese do not know how to pack a apo well like Takahashi without case. he case is not a big cost factor, so we ship withcase and you can throw it away or use it. important for me is that the scope arrives save to me and to you

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