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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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bassplayer142
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/03/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: GeneT]
      #5192210 - 04/26/12 06:16 PM

I blame you OP! I just scooped up the 16mm myself. I've been wanting a 17mm nagler pretty bad, but I couldn't justify the steep price of even a used one. I've spent enough already. With this EP my collection should be very well rounded and complete.

Considering that I have not seen any reviews of it other than a single comment on a retailer site, I'll feel obligated to do a review on it.


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planet earth
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/07/10

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: bassplayer142]
      #5192228 - 04/26/12 06:28 PM

I found the eye relief a little tight on the 16mm 68*.
Others find it okay.
Optically a real nice eyepiece at f5.
Clear Skies
Sam


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HoundDog
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Louisiana
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: planet earth]
      #5192274 - 04/26/12 07:00 PM

How well does the ES 20 68 degree eyepiece perform? That or a Pan 19 are just about the only 2 eyepieces I could use to fill in a hole in my eyepiece lineup.
Didn't I mention earlier that I must resist???


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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/07/10

Loc: Davison, Michigan
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: HoundDog]
      #5192369 - 04/26/12 07:40 PM

now I can't decide between the 20 and the 24mm 68* series!

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davebuechler
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/21/11

Loc: Red River Gorge Kentucky
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #5192470 - 04/26/12 08:42 PM

I have heard that the ES eyepieces are not all what they are hyped up to be particularly when compared to TV. I have a hole in my collection for a 15mm Pan and now thinking of the 16mm ES68. Can anyone offer opinions/comparison of the two?

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Scott in NCAdministrator
80mm Refractor Fanatic
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Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: Bart]
      #5192618 - 04/26/12 10:54 PM

Quote:


Now, how do I convince the spouse that spending almost $500 on two EPs is a life or death matter?




Just make sure that she doesn't convince you that if you even consider spending $500 on two EPs that it's gonna be a life or death matter--yours!

On the other hand, jewelry has been known to work for situations like this.

Edited by ssatko (04/26/12 10:56 PM)


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5192645 - 04/26/12 11:12 PM

Quote:

I have heard that the ES eyepieces are not all what they are hyped up to be particularly when compared to TV. I have a hole in my collection for a 15mm Pan and now thinking of the 16mm ES68. Can anyone offer opinions/comparison of the two?




Indirectly with respect to 15/16mm, I've compared the Panoptic 27mm with a Meade SWA28mm 5K series, which is an optical equivalent of the 28mm ES68. Yes the SWA68 is no TV but estimate that it's about 90% of the Pan in terms of edge correction on an F/5.9 scope, with a very slight edge of the Pan in terms of on-axis sharpness. I also have the 16mm SWA which performs well just like the 28mm. Be aware though that the eye relief on the 16mm is kinda tight, but still acceptable to my eye.

Best,


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5192859 - 04/27/12 03:08 AM Attachment (28 downloads)

Quote:

I have heard that the ES eyepieces are not all what they are hyped up to be particularly when compared to TV. I have a hole in my collection for a 15mm Pan and now thinking of the 16mm ES68. Can anyone offer opinions/comparison of the two?




With the limited views in the past month that I've had with the 2 eyepieces you see in the picture, I am forming the opinion that price to performance ratio is very high for the ES68 eyepieces. I just had them both out tonight with my f/5 Starblast 6 and personally I have a hard time telling the difference, *but* keep in mind, I am still a relative newbie when it comes to observing. Nonetheless, I find the ES68's a great value and a compelling choice, especially at this price point!


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planet earth
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/07/10

Loc: Ontario Canada
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: planet earth]
      #5192893 - 04/27/12 05:46 AM

One thing I,ll say about Explore Scientific is they put out good products, and someone there really knows how to promote their products with these sales.
Good business sense.
Clear Skies
Sam


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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: planet earth]
      #5193833 - 04/27/12 06:27 PM

I should have waited a couple of months!

Dave Mitsky


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CollinofAlabama
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/24/03

Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! [Re: HoundDog]
      #5195925 - 04/29/12 02:32 AM

Earnest and Dave,

Regarding the TV Panoptics vs the Meade 5k SWA/ES N2 68*, I'd say they're very close, with the edge for on-axis performance going to the Pans, overall. I write this from my own experiences with the Pan 19 (as a former owner), the Pan 24 (as a current owner), Meade 5k 24mm SWA (former owner), Meade 5k 20mm SWA (current owner), and the Meade 5000 16mm SWA (former owner), and Meade 5k 28mm SWA (current owner). But here's my take on this.

First, there's the value aspect. Are the Pans worth the price at the eyepiece? Well, this is all REAL personal. My criteria may have nothing to do with yours. If all you care about is on-axis performance, I'd say the Pans are for you. Enough to justify the cost? Well, that's awfully hard to say. For me, the answer is sometimes, but the sometimes is weighing more than just on-axis performance.

The Meade 5ks, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the ES N2 68s, are at a general disadvantage to their corresponding Pan in terms of weight. If all you own are large, solid tube dobs or SCTs, you can ignore this, but if you like refractors and smaller reflectors, it can be important.

One thing to bear in mind is exit pupil size and performance. I'm of the Jim Barnett school, which basically says that, as one gets to a larger exit pupil (which happens in earnst with the SWA/Pans at >15mm), on axis performance tends to even out for eyepieces. Those that performed better at 7mm begin to even out as one gets to 15mm, and especially 20mm+.

I didn't compare the 19mm Pan directly to my Meade 20mm SWA (I'd sold it already), but I was mostly glad to be rid of the nausea producing thing. The TV Panoptics all were designed wih a lot of pincushion distortion. The Meade 5k SWAs/ES N2 68s have a lot less. This effect can cause a nauseated sensation in some people, but has been noted particularly by me and Bill Paolini to inflict the Pan 19. Significantly worse psychologically in the 19 than the other Pans.

As a result of this, I find I cant pan the skies with the Pan 19, something I need to be able to do with a 20mm-ish widefield. The Meade 5k 20 fixed all that. OTOH, the svelt 8.2 oz compared with the ridiculous Meade 5k 24mm's 14 oz had me sell the 5k and keep the Pan 24mm.

The 16mm is more problematic. I bought the 13mm T6 on sale last summer. Since its TFOV and that of the Meade 16m SWA are about equal, I sold the my Meade 16mm reluctantly. For the price, $90 is just hard to pass up for such a product. Many complain about it's eye relief, and it is tight-ish, but not bad for me -- and I abhor TV Plossl 11mm eye relief.

So I have a hodgepodge. The 13mm T6, then I jump to the Meade 5000 20mm SWA, then the Pan 24, and finally out to the Meade 28mm SWA

The view thru a friend's 27mm Pan made me feel it's superior to my Meade 5k 28mm SWA, but is it justified to swap it for one? For me the answer is 'no', but for you?

I think this ES sale is GREAT, but everyone should buy what works for his/her own vision and telescope balancing needs best.

Good luck


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Bachus
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Nashville,TN.
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #5196314 - 04/29/12 10:37 AM

Thanks to a fellow CNer I'm buying his 24mm to replace my Stratus 21mm. However I'm still eyeing the 16mm. But I'm a bit concerned about the tight ER at 12mm. I'm wondering if I should hold off and look for either a used Baader or Orion model at 17mm which has a generous 20mm ER? The two Staratus EP's I have (being sold by the way) have great ER. The 24mm which I'm buying has about the same as the Stratus models.

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REC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #5196392 - 04/29/12 11:28 AM

+1 for this explanation and good advice. I have a lot of different EP's, but use these 4 ranges most of the time. Keep an eye out for the SWA's in the used categories, or the ES sale is a god choice, now.

Bob


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davebuechler
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/21/11

Loc: Red River Gorge Kentucky
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: REC]
      #5196678 - 04/29/12 02:32 PM

Thank you Hernando and Coelum for your valued opinions and comments. That is exactly the kind of comparison/evaluation I was looking for.
Having recently purchased a Pan27 I am finding the budget a little tight for any additional eps at this time but still have a yearning for a wide field ep in the 15-16mm range. At less than $90 the ES16mm68* seems to be a good value for the price and worth a try


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HoundDog
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/01/04

Loc: Louisiana
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #5196728 - 04/29/12 03:00 PM

You pretty much hit on exactly the way I was thinking. I once had a GSO 20 Superview that didn't give the world's greatest view as far as pinpoint stars were concerned. That eyepiece was given to a youngster who had a new small telescope. The 20mm or so eyepiece focal length seems to hit a mid power sweet spot in my scope and I get more tempted by the day to order an ES 20 eyepiece. I can be satisfied with very similar but not quite exactly like the performance of the ES when compared with a 19 Pan.

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Scanning4Comets
Markus
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Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: HoundDog]
      #5196768 - 04/29/12 03:27 PM

I will give another nod to the Meade 5k 28mm and 20mm SWA eyepieces! Both are excellent choices if you don't want to spring the bucks out for a 27mm Pan or 19-22mm Pan.

The 28mm 5k SWA has great eye relief....I have tried it with and without glasses on....with my glasses on, I can see the entire FOV with the eye cup all of the way down. Without my glasses, I dial the eye cup about 5-8mm up and I am good to go. I sold off a 28mm SWA to get a 24mm UWA and ended up selling the 24mm UWA and buying the 28mm 5k SWA back! Great eyepiece IMHO.

The 20mm 5k SWA is no slouch either. I sold off my 22mm Panoptic for it because of the horrid coma I was seeing. I see less coma in the Meade 20mm SWA, believe it or not, and I also had money left over to boot, for more gear!

Both can be de-cloaked if you need weight off of them as well. I find them just right without de-cloaking them with my 10" reflector. The 20mm SWA has perfect eye relief as you snug your eye up into the eyecup with zero black outs.

Cheers !


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Bill Barlow
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/03/07

Loc: Overland Park KS
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: Starman81]
      #5196821 - 04/29/12 03:58 PM

Do you own the ES 20mm 68 degree eyepiece as well? I am considering either this ES 20mm or the Pentax 20mm XW. Has anyone else ever compared these 20mm ES and Pentax eyepieces?

Bill


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5196849 - 04/29/12 04:18 PM

Quote:

Do you own the ES 20mm 68 degree eyepiece as well? I am considering either this ES 20mm or the Pentax 20mm XW. Has anyone else ever compared these 20mm ES and Pentax eyepieces?

Bill




I too am interested in this comparison. The major factor between the two is that the Pentax XW costs about 3x more than the ES68.

From the collective wisdom I've culled from this forum, I would venture to say that the reply will be, how fast are the scopes you are trying to use the respective 20mm EP in? If slower scopes, say f/7 or f/8 and slower, the difference in edge performance will basically be indiscernable. But in faster scopes, the difference will be somewhat noticeable, more so the faster you get. Just my guess!


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rguasto
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/18/10

Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5197003 - 04/29/12 05:58 PM

Just bought a brand new 24mm 68* Ar at NEAF. Significantly less than the sale price. I love NEAF.

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CollinofAlabama
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/24/03

Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: ES eyepiece sale ! new [Re: Starman81]
      #5197535 - 04/30/12 12:29 AM

Starman81 and Bill,

Sorry, can't speak directly to how they'd compare. Actually, Starman81, I doubt the edge performance of the two would be all that different. The 20mm 68* JOCs are very well corrected. The XWs are somewhat notorious for field curvature (tho that's more of the 14mm's problem, from what I've gathered here on CN, not personl experience).

The 20mm SWA weighs 9oz, the ES N2 68* slightly less. Either weighs a fraction of the XW. 10oz is my personal limit for the 1.25" barrel. Not that I have the money for an Ethos, but I'm not interested just from an ease of use perspective. Probably wouldn't matter in my dob, but huge weight variations make for a night of balancing my refractors, rather than looking thru them. No thanks.

To be fair, though, as a former XF owner, Pentax on axis performance is legendary, and well deserved. Like the Panoptic, suspect the XW would outperform the JOC on-axis, but I'd be willing to bet that, at 20mm, the difference is "live with-able". There's a lot to be said for value, and with the sale price, I can honesly say that the ES N2 68's are one of the better values in eyepieces today. $90 for the 16 is particularly good, but the value goes on till at least the 28mm, IMHO. Above that, and you've gotta be willing to deal with the exorbitant weight, but if you can, when you compare the costs of the same type offerings from Pentax and TeleVue, the JOCs are hard to beat, bang for the buck.

Good luck


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