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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5209677 - 05/07/12 01:02 AM

Quote:

Note, this makes....autoguiding essentially irrelevant.



I'm skeptical of that claim. It will certainly help, particularly when combined with APCC. In some circumstances it may even be considered sufficient by some people. However, at long enough focal lengths or long enough exposures, autoguiding will still be needed.


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5209680 - 05/07/12 01:06 AM

frolinmod,

i have also seen it bandied around that Rob Miller also designed the AP900...

that said, those tripods are pretty good for what he charges for them...


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5209684 - 05/07/12 01:12 AM

^ the bit about auto-guiding becoming irrelevant is the same rehash of the TDM from months back. My personal take is, if your focal length is short enough (say under 1000mm) and your subs are short enough (5 minute range) then things like encoders and even a good PEC routine would enable you not to guide.

But those guys with long SCT's or RC's and doing 20+ to hours-long exposures would still need to guide.


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Christopher Erickson
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/08/06

Loc: Waikoloa Village, Hawaii
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5209689 - 05/07/12 01:20 AM

Quote:

^ the bit about auto-guiding becoming irrelevant is the same rehash of the TDM from months back. My personal take is, if your focal length is short enough (say under 1000mm) and your subs are short enough (5 minute range) then things like encoders and even a good PEC routine would enable you not to guide.

But those guys with long SCT's or RC's and doing 20+ to hours-long exposures would still need to guide.






Even above the arctic circle on the winter solstice, you can't image for 20+ hours...


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5209692 - 05/07/12 01:27 AM

Quote:

i have also seen it bandied around that Rob Miller also designed the AP900...



I thought Rob designed the 900, the 1200 and the ME. See the archives on his Catamount Systems website (which appears to be unmaintained for the last few years). The guy is a legend.


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5209699 - 05/07/12 01:33 AM

Quote:

^ the bit about auto-guiding becoming irrelevant is the same rehash of the TDM from months back.



Yes, but Ray's APCC adds features that help go beyond that. So when you combine the two, the claim becomes far more reasonable though still not quite enough for long focal lengths and/or long exposures. It doesn't take hours. 10 or 15 minute exposures at 4M focal length is difficult enough.


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orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5209714 - 05/07/12 01:50 AM

Chris, I meant 20+ minutes to hours.

20+ hours to hours doesn't make sense.


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5210029 - 05/07/12 10:23 AM

Quote:

But those guys with long SCT's or RC's and doing 20+ to hours-long exposures would still need to guide.




I would have thought this, too. But last fall at AIC, Ray Gralak showed an unguided 15 minute exposure through a C14 at F/11, using APCC. It looked as good to me as any guided image that I've ever seen. And I think that the scope was mounted on an AP1200, so it didn't even have the encoders.

The relevance of APCC here is that it was making adjustments for atmospheric refraction, etc.

Ultimately, I think that the maximum duration of an unguided image is going to come down to the accuracy of polar alignment and flexure in the imaging system.


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Daniel Bisque
Vendor


Reged: 04/20/11

Loc: Golden, CO USA
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5210037 - 05/07/12 10:31 AM

Dear Saad,

I apologize that you did not receive a timely response from Software Bisque for this thread.

Did you receive a private email messeage from me on Friday, May 4?

I wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks for considering the Paramount MX!

>>Will Software Bisque still support my mount if I purchase it?

Yes. (Our Paramount ME and Paramount MX customers are located all over the globe and you can post support questions to the support forum anytime).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Consider purchasing the mount through Dubai Telescope: http://dubai-telescope.com/ (a Software Bisque Paramount MX reseller).

Or, you can purchase the mount directly from Software Bisque. Shipping and handling charges are approximately $350.00
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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Daniel Bisque
Vendor


Reged: 04/20/11

Loc: Golden, CO USA
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Alph]
      #5210053 - 05/07/12 10:45 AM

>>You need to re-post your question again and again.

I try my best to answer as many posts as I can on the SB forums (over 12,000 during the past 6 1/2 years).

Try as I might, I sometimes fail. Sorry about that.

>>
I called SB about a tripod for the Paramount MX and I did not like what I experienced.
<<

Were you treated unfairly? I'd like to know.

>>
Maybe it is me but I have high expectation when I am about to spend $11,000.00 on two sets of worm/worm wheels and two electrical motors on a tripod.
<<

Software Bisque works hard to offer quality products at a fair price. Sorry you feel this way.

>>
SB also seems very quick to recommend shipping the Paramounts back to them if there is a problem.
<<

I am responsible for troubleshooting Paramount mounts. I recommend returning mounts only after exhausting all other avenues.

In some instances, yes, I immediately recommend returning the mount for service (like when a fully loaded Paramount ME mount fell off a tripod and hit the ground recently).

>>
As much you might like the looks of the PMX, considering your location, you need a mount that you can service and troubleshoot on your own.
<<

As I hope the extensive history of support questions to the Software Bisque Paramount forums indicate, Software Bisque will be there if needed.

Just my two cents...


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saadabbasi
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/23/09

Loc: 29N
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Daniel Bisque]
      #5210079 - 05/07/12 11:10 AM

Quote:

Dear Saad,

I apologize that you did not receive a timely response from Software Bisque for this thread.

Did you receive a private email messeage from me on Friday, May 4?

I wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks for considering the Paramount MX!

>>Will Software Bisque still support my mount if I purchase it?

Yes. (Our Paramount ME and Paramount MX customers are located all over the globe and you can post support questions to the support forum anytime).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Consider purchasing the mount through Dubai Telescope: http://dubai-telescope.com/ (a Software Bisque Paramount MX reseller).

Or, you can purchase the mount directly from Software Bisque. Shipping and handling charges are approximately $350.00
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




Thank you for responding Daniel. I've sent you a PM. Weirdly, I didn't receive any email on Friday.

EDIT: Just wanted to update everyone here: I actually did get the email from SB but it ended up in my Spam folder (which has never happened before). So it was really wan't SB's fault and I apologize if I sounded frustrated!

Edited by saadabbasi (05/07/12 01:24 PM)


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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Daniel Bisque]
      #5210411 - 05/07/12 02:41 PM

Quote:

>>
I called SB about a tripod for the Paramount MX and I did not like what I experienced.
<<

Were you treated unfairly? I'd like to know.

>>
Maybe it is me but I have high expectation when I am about to spend $11,000.00 on two sets of worm/worm wheels and two electrical motors on a tripod.
<<

Software Bisque works hard to offer quality products at a fair price. Sorry you feel this way.




It is not that I was unfairly treated. I think I wasn’t treated at all. I was just surprised that a call from a potential customer generated little interest and attention from your receptionist.

Quote:

>>
SB also seems very quick to recommend shipping the Paramounts back to them if there is a problem.
<<

I am responsible for troubleshooting Paramount mounts. I recommend returning mounts only after exhausting all other avenues.



That's good to know. However I recently read a post on your site that made me wonder. I hope It was just a fluke.


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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Alph]
      #5210415 - 05/07/12 02:44 PM

Hmm, Alph, I thought this was Saad's post, not yours?
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

>>
I called SB about a tripod for the Paramount MX and I did not like what I experienced.
<<

Were you treated unfairly? I'd like to know.

>>
Maybe it is me but I have high expectation when I am about to spend $11,000.00 on two sets of worm/worm wheels and two electrical motors on a tripod.
<<

Software Bisque works hard to offer quality products at a fair price. Sorry you feel this way.




It is not that I was unfairly treated. I think I wasn’t treated at all. I was just surprised that a call from a potential customer generated little interest and attention from your receptionist.

Quote:

>>
SB also seems very quick to recommend shipping the Paramounts back to them if there is a problem.
<<

I am responsible for troubleshooting Paramount mounts. I recommend returning mounts only after exhausting all other avenues.



That's good to know. However I recently read a post on your site that made me wonder. I hope It was just a fluke.




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Daniel Bisque
Vendor


Reged: 04/20/11

Loc: Golden, CO USA
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Alph]
      #5210454 - 05/07/12 03:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

>>
I called SB about a tripod for the Paramount MX and I did not like what I experienced.
<<

Were you treated unfairly? I'd like to know.

>>
Maybe it is me but I have high expectation when I am about to spend $11,000.00 on two sets of worm/worm wheels and two electrical motors on a tripod.
<<

Software Bisque works hard to offer quality products at a fair price. Sorry you feel this way.




It is not that I was unfairly treated. I think I wasn’t treated at all. I was just surprised that a call from a potential customer generated little interest and attention from your receptionist.

Quote:

>>
SB also seems very quick to recommend shipping the Paramounts back to them if there is a problem.
<<

I am responsible for troubleshooting Paramount mounts. I recommend returning mounts only after exhausting all other avenues.



That's good to know. However I recently read a post on your site that made me wonder. I hope It was just a fluke.




Can you point me to the specific post, please? Again, with respect to mount troubleshooting and resolving mount-related problems, sending the mount back is a last resort.


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Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Daniel Bisque]
      #5210499 - 05/07/12 03:46 PM

Quote:

Can you point me to the specific post, please? Again, with respect to mount troubleshooting and resolving mount-related problems, sending the mount back is a last resort.




Support Forums » Paramount Forums » Paramount ME » Assessing Damaged Gears


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Alph]
      #5210677 - 05/07/12 05:43 PM

Alph, are you sure you want to use that as an example? I don't think it's a very good example of what you mean (or think you mean). It is very clear from the post that the mount is SEVERELY damaged. Fixing that sort of damage isn't like just changing out a faulty board, motor, worm or what have you replaceable part. There could easily be all sorts of hidden damage that cannot even be seen until after the mount has been completely disassembled. All sorts of parts could be affected and need replacement. I don't think the good doctor is going to do that, nor does he likely have the time even if he had the inclination. Now if he would just stop dropping mounts, counterweights, payload and all, on the floor... Oy vey.

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blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Alph]
      #5210709 - 05/07/12 05:57 PM

Alph,
The way you said it, one would think that you personally had issues. But apparently it is another case of you speaking of something you read.
Blueman
Quote:

Quote:

Can you point me to the specific post, please? Again, with respect to mount troubleshooting and resolving mount-related problems, sending the mount back is a last resort.




Support Forums » Paramount Forums » Paramount ME » Assessing Damaged Gears




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korborh
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/29/11

Loc: Arizona
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5210769 - 05/07/12 06:27 PM


Quote:


"Relatively young and inexperienced." That sounds like a talking point being passed around. If only it were true, which it isn't. Those Bisque guys are almost as old as I am. They've been developing astronomical software for over 20 years and selling high quality high end mounts for over 14 years.




frolinmod, I did not want to sound too harsh on SB...sorry my frustration from the other night got in the way . The PC was quite unstable and could not do much with the mount and the homing need was not helping.

My thinking is that a robust mount should be less dependent on a PC. But I can understand both usage models, with and without PC. No doubt SB makes excellent mounts.


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frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: korborh]
      #5210804 - 05/07/12 06:43 PM

Quote:

and the homing need was not helping.



Curious, if you're talking about a Paramount, then the mount only needs to be homed once each time you turn it off and back on or disengage and re-engage the worms for balancing and the like. Takes all of 30 seconds or so and can be done either locally via the hand control or remotely via the computer. I hope you're not thinking you need to home it more often then that. It won't hurt (or help) anything if you do, but it's likely a waste of your time doing it when it doesn't actually need to be done. A stable computer certainly is an important ingredient. When I had trouble with my Dell "observatory" laptop locking up, I sent it back to Dell for repair and when it came back was shocked to find they had actually fixed it (swapped out the motherboard). I figured I'd be in for a long fight with them, but no. Sometimes my pessimism fails me.


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korborh
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/29/11

Loc: Arizona
Re: Has anyone here used an Paramount MX and an AP900? new [Re: Alph]
      #5210817 - 05/07/12 06:47 PM

I think the response from SB to send the mount was appropriate in that catastrophic case ...

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