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General Astronomy >> Beginners Forum

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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: dgerow]
      #5209900 - 05/07/12 08:36 AM

Quote:

Great advice from everyone. Still a Noob myself. I'll be that first one, I guess, to recommend getting a good observing chair. No accessory that I've purchased has made astronomy more enjoyable than my observing chair. It may just be an age issue, but I went from being able to view for maybe a half hour when my back said "no more" to being able to view for hours. Good luck with your final decision.

David






No matter what scope one is using, a good quality astronomy chair is the number one accessory, it just makes observing so much more comfortable.

Jon


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Alan French
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Reged: 01/28/05

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: CurtJ]
      #5209978 - 05/07/12 09:41 AM

Quote:

(in part)

I did look the Dobs, just don't think I can hack it. It is portable, but only in the sense that where there is a will there is a way. If the bug bites, I'll do it. So, Im down to a catadioptric vs. a short tube reflector. I'll focus there.

Curt J.




Curt,

It's tough to beat the portability of a 6 or 8-inch Dob. By the time you set up an SCT with its mount and tripod, your Dob could be in use.

If you find a local club, arrive early at the star party, and keep an eye on folks as they set up their scopes.

Clear skies, Alan


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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: Montclair
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: CurtJ]
      #5210009 - 05/07/12 10:04 AM

you should come out this saturday to Anthony Wayne Rec. Area "Joy of the Universe". It's a free public event sponsored by the Rockland Astronomy Club.

You'll get to see a lot of different scopes and try them on for size.


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Never2Busy4You
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Reged: 11/20/11

Loc: Slower Lower Delaware U.S.A.
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: CurtJ]
      #5210198 - 05/07/12 12:37 PM

Hey Curt,
The CPC800 GPS XLT is a really great scope, and was my 1st Purchase getting back into astronomy after having a Tasco 60mm years ago. I also suffered from Paralysis by Analisis and broke that by going to a couple sidwalk star parties, and visiting a couple Authorized Dealer Telescope Shops (one's that specialize in telescopes, not just stock them as filler!) So, I will also say you should absolutely get to a star party, or club for some first hand experience of size, weight, function, and owner input. Just like you I wanted to be sure what I was buying was not going to be abandoned to the closet, nor leave me thinking I should have gone for more/better after a couple months, seeing & feeling them in person made all the differance. I would say the 8" CPC fits the bill perfectly, however since you expressed the thought of taking it on trips with the family, you have to consider the amount of space it and the rest of the parts n peices will take up in your vehicle. I think this is very easy to overlook. After getting your 3 kids, the honey bunny, yourself, and the usual items that go with you; you will still need another adult sized space for the scope,mount,tripod, and accessories that go along with it always. So with that thought in mind and considering what you've previously posted above, I would say your viable options would be to get the CPC800 if you have the extra funds and the space.
If you have the extra funds but not the space, get the CPC800 and a nice 80mm or 90mm refractor or small MAK.
If you don't have the extra funds or the space go with the Nexstar 5.
If you get the CPC800 you'll be quite happy for a long long time.
If you get the CPC800 and an 80 or 90 refractor or small MAK you can keep the smaller one set up on a simple Alt/Azm for a quick grab n go to the backyard when time is precious.
If you get the Nexstar 5 you can keep it set up also, and when/if you ever decide to go larger, it will be an easy sell, or maybe you'll keep it for quick peeks and go for an 11" or more.
I went with the CPC800 and then I got an Orion 102mm Apex MAK and an Orion Paragon Plus Heavy Duty Tripod that I kept setup all the time for viewing the moon and planets with my daughter and wife.
Also, don't count short the kiddies, you'll be blown away at there inquizitiveness of what they can see, and what they can find, as long as their involved hands on. Give them some small bino's, or have them just use their eye's and load GOSKYWATCH (Free App)on your Ipad with your GPS location inputted and they will be hooked as much as you, and amazed at what's out there above their heads to explore. It's actually the most used App on our Ipad.

I use a Stellarvue F50W2 50mm f/4 Widefeild Finderscope as a travelscope, and my daughter (who'll be 4 in June) now uses it herself so much that I just got another one!!!

If your going on the Cape May / Lewes Ferry, or in Sussex County Delaware, in the near future, I'll be more than happy to let you and yours have hands on time with our scopes, I have a few of each type and each type of mount as well.
Also, Please keep in mind that the best telescope for YOU, is the one you will use.
Hope my rambling thoughts have had some worth for you.
Happy Hunting,
Jeffrey G.


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rdandrea
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/13/10

Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5210455 - 05/07/12 03:11 PM

Nothing "ouch" about the Nextstar 5 *IF* it's not quite the original model and has hand controller firmware v4 or above. It is a nice portable little scope (especially with the case) and will serve you well. Hand controller versions below 4 were not upgradable. If you go look at it, have the owner put you into the utilities menu so you can check the firmware version.

Added: By the way, I have a C8-NGT, for which I paid $450 used with eyepieces. It's a great scope. It's fairly portable in that it fits in the back of my Ford Escape, but I would have to haul camping gear on the roof. It sounds like you and/or your wife have space concerns, so it might be a problem. Mine lives in two different rooms--mount and weights next to the back door and OTA on the bed in the spare bedroom. Takes me three trips to take it outside: mount, counterweights, and OTA. It's not a "grab and go."

Edited by rdandrea (05/07/12 05:40 PM)


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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: CurtJ]
      #5210600 - 05/07/12 04:40 PM

We have a few members of the SAAA astronomy club who do not own telescopes. You could join an astronomy club and go viewing with no telescope. Club members would understand and share their telescopes with you. That way, you could learn more about the hobby, and view through a variety of telescopes before making a purchase.

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Kfrank
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: Alan French]
      #5211484 - 05/08/12 05:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

(in part)

I did look the Dobs, just don't think I can hack it. It is portable, but only in the sense that where there is a will there is a way. If the bug bites, I'll do it. So, Im down to a catadioptric vs. a short tube reflector. I'll focus there.

Curt J.




Curt,

It's tough to beat the portability of a 6 or 8-inch Dob. By the time you set up an SCT with its mount and tripod, your Dob could be in use.

If you find a local club, arrive early at the star party, and keep an eye on folks as they set up their scopes.

Clear skies, Alan




Huh?????

What 8" dob are you referring to?

I had an XT8 Classic, the lightest weight and simplest of the available 8" dobs. Each piece of the scope weighed in at about 22 lbs. The OTA took up the entire back seat of my car and the base took up the entire trunk. While the weight wasn't all that big a deal, the size and bulkiness of the scope, combined with the weight, made it a pain to to transport.

Easy to set up, yes. Can't get much simpler than setting the base on the ground and setting the OTA on the base. But, something like a NexStar 8SE (33 lbs total weight) is quite easy to set up and align. Of course you could, as I have, mount an SCT on a manual alt-az mount. No more difficult than setting up my XT8. Please don't confuse ease of setup and portability.

The fact is that, once you get a 6 or 8" scope mounted on an adequate (adequate is the key word here) base and mount, the resulting combination will have the weight and bulk to render it less than portable, IMO. Transportable, yes, easily portable, no.

But, this is certainly a matter of opinion. After all, I've seen postings referring to a 10" dob as a "grab 'n go" scope.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: Kfrank]
      #5211568 - 05/08/12 08:02 AM

I think it is time to get back to answering the original issues raised by Curt. Here are a few thoughts on what is important for a first scope:

- A stable mount that is reasonably free from vibration. Many less expensive scopes are undermounted, touching the scope causes vibrations that take several seconds to die away, this makes focusing and observing difficult.

- Decent quality optics with enough aperture to show many of the deep sky objects and the planets at their best.

- Rugged, durable. A telescope can be a lifetime investment, too much plastic, flimsy construction, they can be broken too easily...

- Portable, transportable, rugged. Relatively easy to move from the house to the backyard, fits in your car without taking up too much space. A large scope may show more but the effort required for viewing may mean opportunities for viewing are lost.

Decent optics, a solid mount, these are deal breakers, you got to have them. This is the starting point.

GOTO, PUSHTO, Starhopping, these are personal decisions but one does not want to compromise the optics or the mount in order the purchase a GOTO scope. There are GOTO scopes with poor optics and/or a shaky mount that cost real money, $300-$400, probably more.

The right first scope depends on the individual, it really depends on their particular situation, someone with a motorhome, truck or large car, a 12 inch tube Dob might be fine and dandy. Someone with a small car and 4 people to transport, that ain't gonna work.

Personally I think an 8 inch scope is a nice size for a first scope if the size is not an issue. The sky really starts to come alive in an 8 inch scope, globulars begin to really resolve, the planets are still bright at 200x and more, it's just a nice place to be.

In terms of value and simplicity, the proverbial 8 inch F/6 Dobsonian represents the best value, that's a lot of scope for your $400.. pretty amazing.

Myself, I am happy with just about any scope, whether it's a 70mm Celestron Powerseeker, a TeleVue NP-101 or a large reflector, I can have a lot of fun with just about any scope.

Jon


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Never2Busy4You
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Reged: 11/20/11

Loc: Slower Lower Delaware U.S.A.
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5213325 - 05/09/12 08:33 AM

Curt,
There is a Nexstar 8 just listed in CNClassifieds at $599USD


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tensegrity
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Reged: 06/17/09

Loc: Berkeley, CA
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5213774 - 05/09/12 01:17 PM

There's already a lot of great advice here. Here's some observations from a fellow beginner:

I appreciate the lack of computerization on my scopes. The satisfaction of actually learning a section of sky and finding an object is immeasurably more satisfying than just looking at the objects themselves. Of course, your taste may vary. I also don't like the idea of having a lot of electronics and batteries to fuss with. As it is, I sometimes have an extension cord for my cooling fan and laptop. That's enough for me!

I've found that an 8" F/6 dob pushes the limits of car portability, at least for trips not dedicated to astronomy. Yes, you can do it, but it takes up a lot of space depending on your vehicle. But my 8" still gets a lot of use in my backyard.

For travel/portability and grab-n-go I got a very reasonably priced ED80 on a good alt-az mount (with a lot of advice from CN and Jon Isaacs, in particular). This is a very affordable and convenient set up.

For a beginner, I like the simplicity of alt-az, whether dob or tripod mount. But a more ambitious beginners might go right to an EQ and have fun with it, too.

In my limited experience, there isn't a perfect one-scope-fits-all solution, so I have settled on two scopes with very different, complementary capabilities, at a combined cost of less than $1,000. On extended viewing nights, I actually use both scopes. And if you stick with it and really catch the astro bug, you might find that your first scope is not going to be your last scope...

One more thing, don't underestimate how much you can see from your home even with a lot of light pollution. I live in a red zone and I can locate and observe plenty of DSOs, even with my 80mm refractor.

In any case, I don't think you can go wrong with any good quality scope. You will have fun and see amazing things!


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tedbnh
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Reged: 11/14/07

Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: tensegrity]
      #5214580 - 05/09/12 10:26 PM

If you put the base of your 8" XT dob in the back seat of your car way over to one side, and turn it so the opening faces the other side of the car, you can put one end of the OTA into the opening and get both the base and OTA in the back seat easily. Put a pad in first so the bolt head sticking up does not scratch the outside of the OTA.

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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: tedbnh]
      #5215133 - 05/10/12 09:51 AM

Quote:

If you put the base of your 8" XT dob in the back seat of your car way over to one side, and turn it so the opening faces the other side of the car, you can put one end of the OTA into the opening and get both the base and OTA in the back seat easily. Put a pad in first so the bolt head sticking up does not scratch the outside of the OTA.




You can even save a bit more space by putting a blanket on the rocker box cross piece and setting the OTA at an angle so one end sits there.

Jon


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bassplayer142
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Reged: 10/03/11

Loc: Michigan
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5215386 - 05/10/12 12:05 PM

Sadly aperture and space requirements are usually inversely proportion. You need to decide if you want to deal with brighter objects in a larger scope or vice versa. As said before the BEST way is to go to a star party and find out what you will be happy with.

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Startraffic
sage
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Reged: 02/12/06

Loc: Lat. 39.143345, Long. -77.1748...
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: CurtJ]
      #5221495 - 05/14/12 09:08 AM

CurtJ,
I have a suggestion that might help. Don't buy anything! Find a local astronomy group and go to some of their meetings. They probably have a variety of scopes Alt/Az, GEM, Dob, Goto, Push-to, Cables, and more sizes than you can think of. Best of all knowledge. Ask questions, look through some scopes (ask before you do), & get a better idea of what you want and can use. You might get a truly awesome scope for next to nothing, but if it's too much of a PITA to set up & use, it's worthless. DAMHKIT
If you're an apartment dweller then you'd probably want a good Grab-n-go. If you're in a settled dark sky, then something a bit more permanent.
Go & talk to some other astronomers in your area, you already have something in common.

Clear Dark Skies
Startraffic
39.138274 -77.168898
518ft


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Paralyzed by choice: New/Used and Manual/GoTo new [Re: CurtJ]
      #5221802 - 05/14/12 12:19 PM

Curt J.

From your original list I think YOU would be best served by the used Nexstar 5 set.There will be very little difference in the views of a 5" SCT and 5" Newtonian,with maybe a little better contrast in the Newtonian.The Nexstar 5 is also compact ,easy to carry, and store.Hard cases are available if not included with the used scope,and you could even dedicate a sturdy suitcase to scope use.

For new,I like the Nexstar 8SE.You'll get a warrantly,somewhat better computer features,still compact but the 3 inches more aperture will be apparent in the views.

Another point is that the value of the Nexstar 5 should still be nearly as much next year as today ;so if you later want to trade up or just sell from lack of use,your should recover nearly all the money.Not so with the new scope,the first buyer gets the protection of a warranty and the thrill of opening the factory box at the expense of suffering the initial depreciation.

The Dobs are great for value but can take up a lot of room in the car.Most solid-tube scopes fit better in the back seat than trunk ;and many people just won't understand if the kids are in the trunk!

And one more thing:get yourself one of those jumpstart battery units to power the scopes ,or plan to buy a lot of premium AA batteries!


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