Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Best 25mm eyepieces ever!
      #5217433 - 05/11/12 04:03 PM

...or at least the best ones I've seen.

Last Saturday, I attended ATT in Essen, Germany. It's the largest astro-gear show in mainland Europe and the largest in the world, together with Astrofest in London and NEAF in the US. I am not sure which one is the largest, actually.

Anyway, at ATT there's a lot of people selling secondhand scopes, eyepieces and other things. Lots of odd bits and stuff as well as truly high-end gear at very reasonable prices. I lucked out and happened to come across a pair of 25mm Zeiss West (Oberkochen) microscope eyepieces converted to 1.25" format. At 110 Euros apiece, they were not exactly cheap, but I knew what I was looking at. Still, 220 Euro is a fair bit of cash for me, so I decided to think about it for a little while.

And you know how that usually turns out, don't you?

I couldn't get them out of my mind. After getting a bit to eat, I returned to the table, where I had seen them. And...

They were still there! And not only that, the price had been reduced to 99 Euro apiece! I realized this was probably the opportunity of a lifetime, so I forked over the cash and grabbed the precious eyepieces.

Needless to say, I speculated endlessly for the next several days about their possible performance and what I should do, if they were somehow not so good as I hoped they would be, based on what I had read here and elsewhere about the near-magical performance of Zeiss research-class microscope eyepieces.

My worries were totally unfounded, of course.

The first views of the Sun with my 150mm f/8 achromat, stopped to 120mm, using Baader Solar Film and using a Baader Maxbright binoviewer and Baader T2 prism showed an extremely good view, despite thin, hazy clouds. The sharpness was incredible, as was contrast. There was simply no glare, ghosting or reflections. Nothing. It was like looking out a window. An open window, I might add. It was that good. My memories of using UO 25mm VT orthos and TS Kellners crumbled under the awesome views. It is really hard to describe, but it was as if there was simply no glass in the eyepiece and the eyepiece itself almost disappeared in a way I've never experienced before. The AFOV is probably around 45° or so, but it feels substantially larger, because of the extreme comfort. The view was incredibly good and I was very unhappy to see the Sun slowly disappear in clouds.

Now you might think that there is no way to top such a superb view, but you're wrong. A few days later, I did just that: I took out my 85mm f/19 Zeiss apochromat.

Using an INTES Heschel wedge and B+W Optik polarizing and ND 3 filters on the Baader Maxbright, I had a heart-stoppingly good view of the Sun. And the scariest thing is that I know it can get even better, because even on this occasion, the sky was not entirely free from thin clouds. And yet the view was insanely good. These eyepieces may be the first ones I've ever seen that truly do the 85mm Zeiss justice. Contrast and resolution, as well as comfort and lack of glare and other annoyances was simply on an otherworldly level I've never experienced before. An f/19 is easy on eyepieces, but on the other hand the lens is so perfect, that it takes an extremely good eyepiece to truly show everything it's capable of. To what extent this was true, I had not realized until that moment.

I have yet to test them under conditions that can fairly be called even "very good" and they've already taken the place as the undisputed number ones in my small collection of 25mm eyepieces. I curse the fact that I'll have to wait almost three months to test them under dark skies on deep-sky objects, where their extreme resolution and contrast will really shine, such as globular clusters. Not to mention faint galaxies. And the Moon through the refractors! Oh, sweetness! A couple of high-end barlows and I think I can retire a fairly large chunk of my planetary eyepiece collection.

Many people have raved about Zeiss (as well as Nikon and Olympus) microscope eyepieces before, but I must admit I was just a little bit sceptical. How could they possibly be *that* good? Well, they are, and now I am raving myself!

I fear this might be the first stage of a very expensive addiction.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
langejcarl
sage
*****

Reged: 01/05/05

Loc: Michigan USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5218369 - 05/12/12 08:54 AM

You could make a quick profit and sell them to me for $100 Euros each!

Thanks for sharing your experience and letting your words clearly express your excitement.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5218945 - 05/12/12 04:14 PM

Thomas,

Congrats on these great Zeiss eyepieces. Are yours 25 or 27mm?

I have a pair of 27mm Zeiss eyepieces, they are incredible.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5219683 - 05/13/12 03:10 AM

Hi Erik

They're 25mm's, adopted from 10x microscope eyepieces. Stunning performance. I now try to find a barlow or combinations of barlows to give me planetary magnifications. I am afraid that I'll have to look at Zeiss barlows or Baader FFC's, perhaps Tele Vue Powermates, to get something good enough to match the performance of these incredible eyepieces. As I said, it's the start of a very expensive addiction.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5220232 - 05/13/12 01:04 PM Attachment (89 downloads)

Awesome. Whats the serial # Thomas? Is it these 4-element diopter eyepieces, #444232-9904?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5220499 - 05/13/12 04:01 PM

Hi Johnny

No, it's not those and I can't find a serial # on them! They're not shown on the APM second hand page either. They're marked 10x/22 B (B for brillenträger, eyeglass user). I took a few pictures today, I'll try to find the time to upload them soon.

I did some more testing today under a VERY clear sky, though in quite unsteady seeing. Contrast and sharpness is phenomenal. They have instantly replaced three eyepiece pairs, namely my 28mm orthos, 25mm UO VT orthos and 25mm TS Kellners. AFOV is around 50° - 52°, visibly bigger than the UO orthos and more comfortable eye ergonomics to boot. Compared to the quite comfortable TS Kellners, it's like a layer of grease has been wiped from the view! I was actually happy with the TS Kellners, but the Zeiss'es is in a whole other league.

They also barlow extremely well, until the scope f/ratio gets too long, somewhere over f/60. At f/68 (85mm f/19 Zeiss + 3.6x barlow) every dust mote inside the binoviewer was shown as a gray blob in the field of view. Interestingly enough, dust on the eyepieces didn't show up all that prominent.

The view with the Baader 1.7x GPC in 2x mode in front of the T2 prism on my 150mm f/8 achromat gave a most superb view, far superior to my 12.5mm UO VT's. On the 150mm f/8 (stopped to 120mm f/10), I could also use the 3.6x barlow for around 173x with excellent results, though the seeing was not good enough to handle the high power. I suspect that on the 120mm f/10 I could use at least a 5x barlow combination for high-power lunar-planetary observing.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
etsleds
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5220860 - 05/13/12 08:12 PM

Thomas, congrats on the new Zeiss peepers! I enjoyed my set from APM for quite a while, although long-term I struggled enough with proper eye-positioning & blackout that I sold them last year. Is your model reasonably easy to maintain proper position?

Regards, Andrew.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PJ Anway
Double-Star Observer
*****

Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: North Coast
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5220871 - 05/13/12 08:17 PM Attachment (106 downloads)

Thomas,

Very nice report and congratulations on the Zeiss eyepiece find! I've been using Zeiss aspheric orthos for solar viewing for several years now and they yield a very fine image, with excellent contrast. I purchased them through APM, but they are in the Zeiss microscope housings. Here is a pic:


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PJ Anway
Double-Star Observer
*****

Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: North Coast
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: PJ Anway]
      #5220877 - 05/13/12 08:22 PM Attachment (136 downloads)

Here is a closeup: (I added the larger rubber eye-cups in the previous pic.)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PJ Anway
Double-Star Observer
*****

Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: North Coast
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5220901 - 05/13/12 08:37 PM

Quote:

They're marked 10x/22 B (B for brillenträger, eyeglass user).

Thomas, Denmark




Thomas,

I thought Zeiss later replaced the "B" mark with the "eyeglass" icon, seen on both Johnny's eyepiece and mine. So Johnny's and yours may be the same eyepiece, his just being a later production run. I know there is definitely plenty of eye-relief on mine for eyeglass wearers.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: PJ Anway]
      #5221323 - 05/14/12 05:45 AM

Hi Andrew and PJ

The eye ergonomics on mine are the finest I've ever seen. No issues at all. No blackouts, difficulty finding exact eye distance from eyepiece, etc.

They also look completely different from anything I've seen here and on APM. I may have got my hands on some rarities! Now you're on the edge of the seat and I'm not even at home, so I can't upload a picture, since I don't have the USB cable for my camera with me. Maybe my parent's PC has a port for the camera memory card. I'll find out.

I had them out today for half an hour under reasonably good seeing, using the 150mm f/8 stopped to 120mm f/10. With the 1.7x GPC in 2x mode I was enjoying perhaps the finest white-light medium power image I've ever seen of the Sun. Just absolutely incredible. The complete absence of any glare or reflections in these eyepieces makes the visual experience absolutely amazing. It's like you're not even using a telescope, but a spaceship. I can't wait to try them on the Moon! Saturn was quite stunning last night at 96x and even 173x was not bad, despite the low altitude and bad seeing. My 2x barlow is not good enough, though, and must go. I need something of quite a different caliber now!

Nice setup, PJ, BTW.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5222761 - 05/14/12 08:59 PM

Thomas - wow, what a lucky find! I have one of this 25mm Zeiss also. these are no longer made in Germany these days and they usually go for $250 on Amart. Yours sounds like an older version, APM sold these for years with their custom barrels.

I am one of the people that rave about this eyepiece! It's only 3 elements, the edge correction is excellent out to about 44-45 degrees. I actually consider it to be superior to the 25mm Zeiss Abbe ortho! Yes, blasphemy I know, but it's got one less lens element. As you discovered, the contrast is superb, the stars appear as extremely small specks. I could see right away that the coatings were easily as dark as the ones on the ZAO orthos and AP SPL's I owned when I got this eyepiece. Some of the darkest coatings I've ever seen.

It ate my 25mm Clave and 24mm Tak LE for breakfast! I liked it so much I bought the 16mm version, which adds a barlow element for 5 total lenses.

Finding a pair makes an even better deal.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: PJ Anway]
      #5222788 - 05/14/12 09:09 PM Attachment (76 downloads)

Quote:

Thomas,

Very nice report and congratulations on the Zeiss eyepiece find! I've been using Zeiss aspheric orthos for solar viewing for several years now and they yield a very fine image, with excellent contrast. I purchased them through APM, but they are in the Zeiss microscope housings. Here is a pic:




PJ - interesing - I actually preferred the OEM 44 degree field stop, so I sold the APM one I had and ordered one directly from Zeiss.

My favorite eyepieces are the AP SPL's, which go from 4mm-12mm, for me the 25mm Zeiss serves as the perfect extension of the set. 3 elements, FOV is nearly the same, same edge sharpess, same incredible contrast, dark coatings, etc. here it is w/ the 16mm:


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
langejcarl
sage
*****

Reged: 01/05/05

Loc: Michigan USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5229321 - 05/19/12 08:39 AM

Are there some buying tips when looking for Zeiss eyepieces? What markings to look for and which ones to avoid?

I see a lot out there such as:

20x OPMI 20x focusable

E-PL 10x/20

PL 10x/20

Kpl W 10x/20

PK 20x

K 20x


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: langejcarl]
      #5229824 - 05/19/12 03:09 PM

I'd definitely try to find the modern types and steer clear of the older ones, unless I was a collector, of course. The newer types have superb coatings and moderately wide fields. They're also extremely well corrected.

The "10x" is equivalent to 25mm focal length. They usually have apparent fields of view between 40° and 55°. The number behind the "10x" is the field stop diameter in millimeters. Mine are marked 10x/22, so they have a field stop diameter of 22mm. AFOV is about 50°. Another useful thing to look for is a symbol showing a pair of glasses or the letter B, which means "brillen" or "brillenträger", glasses or eyeglass user, in German. K could mean "Kellner" or "Kompensation", I am not sure which, perhaps both, depending on the eyepiece. In the latter case, it is a special eyepiece made to correct for spherochromatism in apochromatic microscope objectives (I think!).

A good way to make sure you get something useful, is to keep an eye out for eyepieces made for stereo microscopes (not normal microscopes with a binoviewer). Stereo microscopes often have larger fields of view and use eyepieces with 30mm barrels, but this is also becoming a standard on modern microscopes. They also don't use apochromatic objectives and generally not phase contrast either, so you have a much greater chance of getting normal eyepieces and not something odd that was meant to be used with special equipment. Be particularly cautious about Zeiss eyepieces with an infinity symbol on them! These are made for Zeiss'es special microscopes with collimated light beams, where the tube length has been made irrelevant for the magnification by adding collimator lenses after the objective and recollimating lenses just in front of the eyepiece or IN the eyepiece, hence my warning. These may be completely unusable on anything else than a Zeiss microscope with infinity optics. MAY be, I am not 100& sure.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
langejcarl
sage
*****

Reged: 01/05/05

Loc: Michigan USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5230590 - 05/20/12 07:38 AM Attachment (78 downloads)

Would these be good performers? Since there is no obvious serial number are they probably an older model? Would it be more ideal to look for ones with a 25mm field stop?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5230641 - 05/20/12 09:13 AM

I already played with the idea to use these 3-element eyepieces for binoviewed planetary observations in my 6" f/7.33 APO refractor, along with Baader's FFC or the A-P BARCON.

I checked on CN some older threads on the 3-element Zeiss microscope eyepieces and their use in astronomical telescopes. All reviewers reported that these 3-element microscope eyepieces are indeed very sharp on-axis, but complained a quite noticeable pin-cushion distortion at the very edge. What is your observation on this matter?

Stephan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5230837 - 05/20/12 11:56 AM

Quote:

I already played with the idea to use these 3-element eyepieces for binoviewed planetary observations in my 6" f/7.33 APO refractor, along with Baader's FFC or the A-P BARCON.

I checked on CN some older threads on the 3-element Zeiss microscope eyepieces and their use in astronomical telescopes. All reviewers reported that these 3-element microscope eyepieces are indeed very sharp on-axis, but complained a quite noticeable pin-cushion distortion at the very edge. What is your observation on this matter?

Stephan




Stephan - In my f/7.5 refractor the 25mm's are almost completely sharp out to about 44 degrees. After than you get some bloat in the star images. I preferred the view at 44 degrees over 54, but I think APM found that most people preferred it at 54 degrees. With the OEM 44 degree field stop, the edge correction is similar to the 25mm ZAO eyepieces, or maybe even better.

those older "west germany" ones look great to me! After a cleaning I would expect them to be close to the newer ones, they look multi-coated.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5240238 - 05/26/12 05:06 AM

UPDATE. First planetary views.

OMG!

The Moon is... Almost impossibly sharp in these babies. In fact, they're so sharp, you'll have to be extremely careful when focusing, as the SLIGHTEST hint of being out of focus instantly reveal itself as a noticeable drop in detail. Not that there still aren't many details visible, but the amount explodes once you hit critical focus. It's like *BAM* and the lunar surface comes alive. I found it easiest to creep up to the best focus with the 1:10 reducer on the crayford, then microfocus with the diopters on the Maxbright. It took an insanely small amount of a turn to hit absolutely best focus. Other eyepieces I own are nowhere near as sensitive, but also don't give anywhere near this insane level of detail. At 48x (no GPC) and 62x (1.25x GPC in front of diagonal, 1.3x, 150/1200mm SW achro, stopped to 125mm), the lunar surface was resolved WAY down below the resolution of my eye. And the contrast. Oh my. I observed the Moon until it slipped behind some neighborhood trees low in the west.

Mars was in an unstable part of the sky, but despite being only 8" at the moment, clearly showed its phase, a polar cap, which was very easy to see, and a few vague, greenish markings. The seeing was quite unstable, though, so I didn't spend much time on it. I was at 170x, using my 2x barlow lens, cell only, attached to the 1.25x nosepiece of the Maxbright, where it gives 3.55x.

I turned to Saturn instead. Bigger and brighter and a little higher in the south.



For some odd reason, the seeing in this part of the sky was vastly better than over in Mars' part of it. And Saturn was SPECTACULAR! For many years, I've had not so good impressions of my old asian barlow (probably an early GSO), but the view of Saturn was heart-stoppingly good. At 170x, the most fantastically sharp Saturn I've seen in many years, and undoubtedly the finest this telescope has ever showed, came slowly gliding into the field. It was just perfect. It was beyond words. I think I observed Saturn for about 1.5 hours, until it slipped behind my tall hedge to the southwest. The seeing slowly deteriorated, but even as Saturn began to slip behind the branches, it was still firmly very good. The Cassini division was like an etching, never wavering out of vision, only fuzzing a little on occasion. The equatorial band was definitely double. The crepe ring was faintly glowing in the ansae and clearly visible where it crossed the planet. Limb darkening was obvious, though subtle. The ring shadow on the planet and the planet shadow on the ring added to the 3D-feeling. Not since observing Saturn in 1995 with my friend Darnell's 178mm Meade ED and binoviewer have I had a finer view of Saturn.

After Saturn had set, I turned to deep-sky, now using full aperture of the 150mm f/8 achro. I am at 55°N, so the twilight nights have already begun, so there was not going to be any really faint things visible. The SQM said 20.50. I turned to M13, which was easily visible in the 8x50 finder. The stars in the 25mm Zeiss'es are just fantastically sharp. Extremely tiny points, sharp almost to the edge in the f/8 and tight even there. Even at 48x, the big globular showed lots of faint stars in long chains, curving away from its glowing, fuzzy core. Now the long eye relief of the 25mm's came in as a disadvantage. I couldn't cup my eyes closely enough around them to block stray light well enough. I changed to my 20mm GSO Superviews. The field was a bit darker and more stars where showing up and I could block stray light much better, but the view was not nearly as sparkling as before, despite all my attempts to focus just as carefully as with the Zeiss'es. Eye comfort with the 20mm GSO's is very good, but there was just not the depth and the snap to the view as with the Zeiss'es. I added the 1.3x GPC and went back to the Zeiss'es. The globular showed crisper and much more numerous stars, for sure. I changed to the 1.7x GPC, mounted in front of the prism, for 1.65x. The view was extremely good. A shame it wasn't darker.

I was getting very tired now, so I looked at bit at Vega at 170x, to test the image quality, mostly because of the barlow. It was extremely sharp. Glow around the bright star was exceptionally well controlled. Hmm. No need to be in a rush to find a better barlow, it seems. Or will the view only be even better then? Guess I need one after all!

Impressions: These eyepieces seem near impossible to beat. They also have a few quirks, but those can be overcome, I think. The worst is that their barrels are slightly undersized, so that they wobble ever so slightly in the Maxbright eyepiece holders. This is bad, because it can lead to merging issues. The solution so far has been not to tighten the setscrews, so that both eyepieces will always lean in the same direction, due to gravity. The downside of that solution is quite obvious...! No security, should the binoviewer accidentally rotate downwards, and we all know how easy that can happen. The generous eye relief also generates issues with stray light, as noted above.

Another quirk is their generous eye relief and very relaxed eye position. These are clear advantages when it comes to comfort, but you may also not notice that your eye is not exactly centered on the exit pupil, so that image quality can suffer, until you notice that the softening of the view is not due to seeing issues!

A definite advantage of their build-in diopter adjustment is that you can focus the field stop! This creates a very curious effect, in that the "spaceship effect" of these eyepieces are much stronger when the field stops are sharp. Oddly, it also makes the field appear larger! It has the effect of making the field stop appear at infinity, thereby making it seem as if you're looking at the stars through a VERY large window from a great distance. It creates an illusion of vastness that is not subtle in the mind. The "window effect" is very strong. Other eyepieces make it seem as if you're looking through a surgical microscope as a small cell or amoeba, even when you're looking at a galaxy. Such eyepieces have just that "eyepiece effect". You can't shake the feeling, that you're looking through an eyepiece, while the Zeiss'es makes the scope disappear, letting you look out a window into space. The only eyepieces in my arsenal that show a similar strong effect (and I think that is mostly due to their much larger AFOV) are the GSO Superviews.

Bottom line: Using these Zeiss microscope eyepieces are turning out to be a very special experience. The best part is that I've yet to see so much through them. The journey has just begun.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5240333 - 05/26/12 08:58 AM

Awesome report! I hav one question because these eyepieces have been repeatedly referred to in this thread as having three elements. So if yours have diopters... are you sure it's only 3 elements? The eyepieces I linked to earlier have diopters for instance, and they have four elements in three groups.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5240352 - 05/26/12 09:09 AM

Quote:

So if yours have diopters... are you sure it's only 3 elements?




I don't know how many elements they have. Have I said something about that? I can't remember! That's not to say that I haven't!

All I know is that they perform as if there wasn't anything in there at all, except a magical window into space itself.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5240362 - 05/26/12 09:16 AM

You haven't actually said "3 elements" but Scott99 and Stephan refer to 3 elements. I know there is a 3 element version but I would imagine it doesn't have a diopter.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5240399 - 05/26/12 09:56 AM

Quote:

You haven't actually said "3 elements" but Scott99 and Stephan refer to 3 elements. I know there is a 3 element version but I would imagine it doesn't have a diopter.




I thought the APM ones were the same optics regardless of whether they focus or not, but there's no way to confirm it for these old ones. Some of them might be a different design.

Nice report Thomas! sounds like some good planetary seeing. Mars is getting so small and close to the horizon it's just about over this time I'm afraid.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5240823 - 05/26/12 02:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So if yours have diopters... are you sure it's only 3 elements?




I don't know how many elements they have. Have I said something about that? I can't remember! That's not to say that I haven't!

All I know is that they perform as if there wasn't anything in there at all, except a magical window into space itself.

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark






This discussion desperately needs some pictures


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Scott99]
      #5240849 - 05/26/12 03:07 PM

Quote:

I thought the APM ones were the same optics regardless of whether they focus or not, but there's no way to confirm it for these old ones. Some of them might be a different design.




There are definitely different designs. I don't know the number of elements in mine, but I do think they *might* be a four-element, three-group 1-2-1 König variant, kept to 50° AFOV. This would explain the very good correction and the huge eye lens. I can't say for sure, since the lenses are so phenomenally well polished and coated that I can't see them inside the housing (!!!) when looking from the field stop side, but I can try to count the visible recesses inside the housing, where there might be a lens... I seem to be able to count three such recesses. The field stop is 22mm wide, while the eye lens is 30mm wide!

I honestly can't see the glass. It's an unreal feeling. There's a row of tiny and faint reflection, seemingly floating in mid air, otherwise there's nothing the eye can see. Truly remarkable.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5240898 - 05/26/12 03:42 PM

I believe in another thread ( taking apart an Ethos or Delos I think?) someone used a small green laser shined into the eyepiece to reveal the different lenses.
Rex

Edited by tomcody (05/26/12 03:45 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: tomcody]
      #5240937 - 05/26/12 04:06 PM

Quote:

someone used a small green laser shined into the eyepiece to reveal the different lenses.




Excellent idea! I tried just that a minute ago and my wild guess about the König 1-2-1 design was correct!! It *may* also be a 1-3-1 design, I can't say for sure. I can't see how many lenses the internal element consists of, but it's pretty thick.

To the impatient: I am unable to upload photos right now. I have tried several times and get error messages all the time. File size is 131 and 150 kb, so that's not it. I think it's a temporary CN server error.

Deprecated: Function ereg_replace() is deprecated in /usr/www/users/cloudyweb/photopost/pp-inc.php on line 1067

is all I get.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tamiji Homma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: California, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5241226 - 05/26/12 07:58 PM

Quote:

You haven't actually said "3 elements" but Scott99 and Stephan refer to 3 elements. I know there is a 3 element version but I would imagine it doesn't have a diopter.




I think that the diopter adjustment is more like fine helical focuser mechanism. The photo below is Zeiss/TMB 25mm 3 element eyepiece. As Thomas describes, it is very fine eyepiece. My best lunar, Jupiter observation was with this eyepiece, Baader 4x FFC and MarkV binoviewer.

Here is photo, left side is max plus diopter, right is max minus:


Left max plus, right center:


It has beautiful coatings, eye guard off. OK, I need to clean


Tammy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5241687 - 05/27/12 02:57 AM

Hi Tammy

Beautiful eyepieces. Here are some pictures of mine. I was finally successful in uploading the pictures.

Here's a picture of them in the Baader Maxbright. Notice the large eyelenses. Verrry comfortable. No pinhole peeping here, no.




Here the modular construction is shown, with the rightmost eyepiece fully assembled and the leftmost with 1.25" barrel and adjustable eyeguard removed. The 1.25" barrel attaches to the housing with a finely machined threaded collar. The white thing on the housing is a locking mechanism for the diopter adjustment. The gray button on the eyeguard is a click-stop locking mechanism for adjusting the height of the eyeguard. I find the eyeguards to be too tall, even in the lowest setting and prefer to observe without them. I am currently looking for something with which to replace them.




Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5241691 - 05/27/12 03:00 AM

Thanks for the photos! Oh OK, so is the diopter just moving the entire lens assembly up and down inside the housing? I guess it could still be 3 elements...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suburbanskies
sage


Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New Jersey, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5241895 - 05/27/12 09:42 AM

It appears to be the same as these Zeiss eps, marketed as 27mm eps by BW Optik:

Zeiss advertisement from BW Optik


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5242063 - 05/27/12 11:34 AM

Quote:

It appears to be the same as these Zeiss eps, marketed as 27mm eps by BW Optik:

Zeiss advertisement from BW Optik




cool! I love the action shot of the medical guy in the background. These ep's are a great way to get top-quality Zeiss optics for less money than the hyped-up ZAO & ZAOII. I would love to try the Zeiss 10mm micro eyepiece too.

Here is another good resource for tracking down micro eyepieces:

http://spectraservices2.com/UEYEZEISS.html


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5242132 - 05/27/12 12:22 PM

Quote:

It appears to be the same as these Zeiss eps, marketed as 27mm eps by BW Optik:




They are the same. Look how close my guess was as to what the design looked like!

But if they're marked 10x, then why 27mm focal length? Does Zeiss use a non-standard focal length on some of their microscopes? I'll try to compare them with my 25mm UO's and my 28mm orthos.

http://www.bw-optik.de/katalog/bilder/zeiss_oberknochen.jpg

I like their description. It matches my own experience perfectly. I had a suspicion that they were something special, but that they were this special, I had no idea.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ewave
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/16/09

Loc: northwest NJ
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5242176 - 05/27/12 12:47 PM

OK, Thomas perhaps they are fine polish but are they also multicoated for astro observing?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suburbanskies
sage


Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New Jersey, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5242189 - 05/27/12 12:56 PM

I really have no idea why BW Optik calls them 27mm eps. I wonder if Erik's 27mm is the same?

In any event, my pair is the same as Patrick's. I purchased them second hand from a friendly German astronomer and they are my favorite. I wish there were other Zeiss microscope eyepieces just as good (and of reasonable price) but I have had no luck so far. I recently tried a pair of the current Zeiss 16mm eps and they were not of the same performance level. But that is another story....

Aren't you glad you decided to buy these

Mark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: ewave]
      #5242284 - 05/27/12 01:56 PM

Quote:

OK, Thomas perhaps they are fine polish but are they also multicoated for astro observing?




Are you kidding me? I can't even see the glass in there!

No, seriously, I can see a few dust specks and a few reflections from my livingroom lamp, seemingly floating in midair, but I can't see the glass surface of the field lens. The coatings are that good. I can see the eye lens a little better, but that is because of the dust it inevitably collects and the fact that it lies closer to open air and can be harsher illuminated.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5242293 - 05/27/12 02:00 PM

Quote:

Aren't you glad you decided to buy these




Very much so! Best eyepieces I've ever seen (in case anyone should still be in doubt...) and a real eyeopener to me. I honestly didn't think eyepieces could get this good.

The downside is that I am now on a lifelong quest to find equal eyepieces of different focal lengths. There were a pair of 16mm Zeiss eyepieces in a different booth at ATT, but they were pretty beat up and very dirty. I didn't buy them, despite a favorable price, as I was running out of Euros.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5242520 - 05/27/12 04:43 PM

Quote:

It appears to be the same as these Zeiss eps, marketed as 27mm eps by BW Optik:




While the same, they are definitely not 27mm, but 25mm, as they should be, if they are 10x microscope eyepieces. I tried to use one in the left diopter on my Baader Maxbright and a 25mm UO in the right diopter. Images were so close to identical, I could get an unproblematic merge. I could observe the image for any amount of time with no stress. There was no detectable size difference whatsoever. The only drastic difference between the images was the size of the AFOV, which was drastically larger in the Zeiss, appearing about 40% - 50% larger, though perhaps being not quite so much larger, yet definitely larger than the UO.

Only on close scrutiny did the Zeiss show a slightly sharper, cleaner image. It was subtle, but it was real. The full effect only shows up when you binoview with them.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

Edited by Astrojensen (05/27/12 04:45 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suburbanskies
sage


Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New Jersey, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5242588 - 05/27/12 05:37 PM

Quote:


While the same, they are definitely not 27mm, but 25mm, as they should be, if they are 10x microscope eyepieces...

Only on close scrutiny did the Zeiss show a slightly sharper, cleaner image. It was subtle, but it was real. The full effect only shows up when you binoview with them.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark




Interesting result. Good to know in case I get the itch to buy a backup pair of 25mm's I don't really need

I had a similar feeling after comparing my Zeiss 25mm's versus an inexpensive 25mm Plossl. A real difference to my eyes after some comparisons but probably many casual astronomers would not notice unless asked to look carefully...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5242652 - 05/27/12 06:24 PM

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for uploading your pictures! Glad it finally worked out.

As I suspected already from your description, these are the same eyepieces as my Zeiss. As others already mentioned here, they are 27mm focal length eyepieces, made for medical surgery.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5242777 - 05/27/12 07:57 PM

so it's 4 elements, 51 degrees. I would love to get my hands on one! I wonder if any of them ever made it across the pond.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5243281 - 05/28/12 04:31 AM

Quote:

As others already mentioned here, they are 27mm focal length eyepieces, made for medical surgery.




Made for medical surgery and other similar applications, yes, but not 27mm focal length, but 25mm. Unless my 25mm UO's are 27mm focal length... I doubt this is the case. If they really were 27mm and the UO's are 25mm, that would be an 8% difference in magnification, quite obvious to see in direct comparison. And I could see no difference whatsoever, so the focal lengths are within a percent or so of each other.

The 27mm focal length stated on the B-W homepage is definitely an error. It also doesn't match the "10x" inscription on the eyepieces, as this translates to 25mm focal length per international standards.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul C-I
super member


Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5243919 - 05/28/12 01:22 PM

I also have a pair of the same models that Tammy's pic shows plus some recent adapters supplied by Markus Ludes.
I have compared them with Brandon 24's and Pan 24's and the image scale of the object viewed kinda puts the Zeiss eps at about 27-8mm. I know this may not be an exact scientific calculation but certainly puts them higher than 25mm.
YMMV
Oh.....I forgot to say....Cracking performers through my Baader Mkv's and Vixen Atlux!
Paul


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Paul C-I]
      #5244042 - 05/28/12 02:25 PM

I measured mine again today, this time comparing them with a 27mm eyepiece from a finderscope. The finderscope eyepiece had a definitely smaller image. It was not subtle. A single millimeter of focal length difference is clearly visible, not to mention two. I also compared them to my 25mm TS Kellners. Again the image was 100% identical in size.

These are 25mm eyepieces. Period.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
daniel_h
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/08/08

Loc: VIC, Australia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5245133 - 05/29/12 06:32 AM

Picked up a zeiss aspheric 25mm 3el aspheric microscope converted by APM ep real cheap, your rig about the crispness, next to a Koenig the moon is totally diff, neutral & sharp

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
langejcarl
sage
*****

Reged: 01/05/05

Loc: Michigan USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5245596 - 05/29/12 12:53 PM

Are the housings and barrels on the newer ones black anondized metal or some kind of plastic?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Junn Chavez
super member


Reged: 02/24/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5251957 - 06/02/12 12:19 PM Attachment (53 downloads)

Hello to all,

I am also using a Zeiss microscope eyepiece for binoviewing. I find them very sharp, contrasty on planets and the Moon. Also for solar observation using a 2" Lunt Herschel wedge.

Clear skies


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Junn Chavez]
      #5261019 - 06/07/12 10:45 PM

OK, for those - like myself - who have never dealt in Euros, 99 Euros is about $124. So for a pair of the 25mm Zeiss West (Oberkochen) microscope eyepieces, Thomas paid $248.

Now we all know...

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5261077 - 06/07/12 11:12 PM

Is there any good source on this side of the pond for microscope eyepieces which can be used for astronomy? I'm reluctant to order from Europe because of currency exchange problems and delays in customs, not to mention the economic flux that the Continent is currently experiencing.

I have seen many microscope eyepieces for sale on eBay. I stay away from the "K" type, for fear they may be Kompensation. It is difficult to know which are gems and which are junk. I'm not convinced that everything marked "Zeiss" is going to excel in a telescope.

A company based in Belarus seems to have bought out an entire warehouse of microscope eyepieces. Many are LOMO, which are supposed to be Eastern European inheritors of Zeiss brains and equipment.

Recently I bought a pair of LOMO microscope eyepieces from the Belarus company. Took a couple weeks to arrive, which was surprising, since a CZJ Huygens I ordered from Poland took over a month.

The Belarus eyepieces are marked "O12.5x." So they are LOMO/Zeiss Orthoscopic ("Ortoscop") 20mm eyepieces. I paid $59 for the pair, $71 after shipping.

I've only used them once, to observe Saturn and Mars through my binoviewer, but I know they are excellent eyepieces. Contrasty and sharp, as would be expected from good orthos. I expect great things from them when I observe Jupiter later this year.

I just wish the Belarus vendor had "Ortoscop" pairs in focal lengths besides 20mm. They seem to have an overabundance of the LOMO Ortoscop 12.5x. Maybe they were the standard pair used in Russian and Eastern European schools and hospitals.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5262568 - 06/08/12 10:11 PM

This is all very interesting as I kind of unknowingly took 25mm oculars for granted. Ive got 25mm and 26mm plossls and thought they were actually perfect. Id love to do and a-b with like quality oculars such as these.

Thomas Im very glad you found much satisfaction here.

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5262570 - 06/08/12 10:13 PM

By the way Thomas...

What is the deepsky verdict on deepsky with your binos. Its dimmer but can you see as much or more detail because its two eyes despite being dimmer?

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5262583 - 06/08/12 10:23 PM

Pete,

The problem is not only that the image is dimmer because it's passed through a binoviewer - read EdZ's posts on this subject - but since you are dark-adapted when viewing DSO, your visual acuity will be diminished as compared to viewing bright planets or the Moon. So there are two flys in the ointment before the horse is even out of the gate.

One way to compensate for the degradation in detail due to dark adaptation is to pump up the power. This works especially well on planetaries and brighter galaxies.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5262594 - 06/08/12 10:33 PM

I see a pair of Thomas' eyepieces for $299 on eBay UK. These are screw-in eyepieces but it does not look like the 1.25" barrel attachments are included. Where would you get the 1.25" barrels to fit the threads on these Zeiss?

Zeiss 10x/22 B Microscope eyepieces

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5262619 - 06/08/12 10:54 PM

Alright, here's another pair of the Zeiss 10x/22 B, again without the barrels. The ad says that the eyepieces have a 36mm female thread. Are 1.25" barrels available to fit this thread size?

Help yourself, folks. I think the field stop on these eyepieces would be too large for my Burgess Binoviewer. I am afraid they would vignette.

West Carl Zeiss T* 10x/22B OPMI special eyepieces NIB

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5262789 - 06/09/12 01:57 AM

Quote:

I think the field stop on these eyepieces would be too large for my Burgess Binoviewer. I am afraid they would vignette.




Well, the field stop is 22mm. There is no vignetting in my Baader Maxbrights.

Quote:

The ad says that the eyepieces have a 36mm female thread. Are 1.25" barrels available to fit this thread size?




The thread is actually a little larger than 36mm. My caliper says 36.7mm. The threads are fine, about 0.75mm. I thought that there might have been a chance (before I measured them) that they would fit Vixen M36.4x1 threads, but they didn't.

A local machinist can likely make some 1.25" barrels for them. You could also contact B+W optics, who (used to?) sell them, equipped with 1.25" barrels. Another alternative is APM telescopes.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5263028 - 06/09/12 08:46 AM

Thomas,

Quote:

Well, the field stop is 22mm. There is no vignetting in my Baader Maxbrights.




Good, field stop diameter is one of the most important specs to find out when choosing eyepieces for a binoviewer. These Zeiss would be fine for my old Burgess, right there at the maximum CA without vignetting. Mine can handle up to about 23mm.

Quote:

The thread is actually a little larger than 36mm. My caliper says 36.7mm. The threads are fine, about 0.75mm. I thought that there might have been a chance (before I measured them) that they would fit Vixen M36.4x1 threads, but they didn't.

A local machinist can likely make some 1.25" barrels for them. You could also contact B+W optics, who (used to?) sell them, equipped with 1.25" barrels. Another alternative is APM telescopes.




I think it'd be best to deterimine if barrels are available off-the-shelf before anyone - at least anyone with modest means - buys a pair of the "screw-in" eyepieces. A machinist's labor can add substantially to the total cost. I avoid them like the plague. My pockets aren't that deep! If someone has a friend that can do work like that on the cheap, go for it.


Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5263371 - 06/09/12 12:58 PM

Quote:

A machinist's labor can add substantially to the total cost. I avoid them like the plague. My pockets aren't that deep! If someone has a friend that can do work like that on the cheap, go for it.




I was indeed thinking more in line of "a friend with a lathe", rather than "professional machine shop"!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Virginia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5263531 - 06/09/12 03:10 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Quote:


I think it'd be best to deterimine if barrels are available off-the-shelf before anyone - at least anyone with modest means - buys a pair of the "screw-in" eyepieces. A machinist's labor can add substantially to the total cost. I avoid them like the plague. My pockets aren't that deep! If someone has a friend that can do work like that on the cheap, go for it.


Mike




The film canister trick works just fine for Eps with microscope barrels in place - assuming you can find them (I still shoot 35mm film). It may not be elegant but the fit is pretty remarkable over the 30mm (1.18") standard microscope barrel of the Zeiss and brings it out almost to 1.25". This is how I use my Zeiss eyepieces with my Mark V. The Mark V eyepiece clamps center and hold them in place very well - there is just a minimal amount of play with the film canister before clamping but they don't budge after tightening.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5263676 - 06/09/12 04:44 PM

Thomas,

Quote:

I was indeed thinking more in line of "a friend with a lathe", rather than "professional machine shop"!




Unfortunately, I suspect most people, even if they have a friend with a lathe, do not have a friend with the skill and experience to thread a pipe to the precision required. I lack both.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Doug D.]
      #5263680 - 06/09/12 04:48 PM

Doug,

Quote:

The film canister trick works just fine for Eps with microscope barrels in place - assuming you can find them (I still shoot 35mm film). It may not be elegant but the fit is pretty remarkable over the 30mm (1.18") standard microscope barrel of the Zeiss and brings it out almost to 1.25". This is how I use my Zeiss eyepieces with my Mark V. The Mark V eyepiece clamps center and hold them in place very well - there is just a minimal amount of play with the film canister before clamping but they don't budge after tightening.




Well, that's doable. I did upgrade the eyepiece holders on my binoviewer to the twist-and-tighten type. I was able to buy them from Burgess before he relocated to a tropical island or whatever he's doing now.


Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5264058 - 06/09/12 10:22 PM

How would the Zeiss compare to these?

PAIR WF 10X PLAN EYEPIECES

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5264268 - 06/10/12 02:24 AM

Quote:

How would the Zeiss compare to these?

PAIR WF 10X PLAN EYEPIECES




Well, the basics numbers are the same, so they would have the same field of view, etc. They're also long eye relief, so they should be comfortable. My guess is that they should be pretty close, but as we all know, an eyepiece is the sum of its parts, so while they should perform pretty much the same, it's not guaranteed that they will do so. Based on the numbers alone, my TS Kellners should be the equal of my Zeiss'es, but in practice, that's *not* the case at all, of course (I am not saying these AmScope eyepieces are bad).

I do think they're very fine eyepieces, though perhaps not quite the equal of those Zeiss'es. I have seen enough eyepieces to know when I see something special and they are very special indeed, not just because I happen to be the owner.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5264958 - 06/10/12 04:00 PM

It seems that some eyepieces are easier to find for reasonable prices in Europe than in the USA, and others are easier to find in the USA. Europe is the place to go for Zeiss, the USA for Brandons. But lately even Brandons appear to be scarce on the used market on this side of the Atlantic - or at least the Brandons I'm looking for.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5268223 - 06/12/12 02:54 PM

Is the 44 42 31 the E-PL or just PL?
Or did they use the same numbers for both types?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ava
sage


Reged: 11/30/11

Loc: Sweden
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: saemark30]
      #5268943 - 06/13/12 01:33 AM

Anyone know the details of the Zeiss Pl 10x/25 Br. Foc. with number 444034? It seems to be the same 4 element 3 group design you have been talking about but with a 25mm field stop? Also, Markus at APM sell these new but with Zeiss number 444034-9000-000, anyone know the significance of these last numbers?

Thanks,


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cbowman
newbie


Reged: 05/13/10

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Scott99]
      #5289268 - 06/25/12 10:17 PM Attachment (110 downloads)

Hi: I was hoping someone on this thread can help me figure out what eye pieces I have. First on one side,they both have P1 10 x/18 with the eye glass icon, leading me to believe that they are the 25mm that have been discussed. However, the two are different; the other side on one has 44 41 32 01 and on the other 44 41 31 01. They are slightly different in that the 44 41 32 has what appears to be a built in focuser and index markings while the 44 41 32 Does not. I will show a couple of images to show what I am talking about. Any help would be appreciated. Curtis

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cbowman
newbie


Reged: 05/13/10

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: cbowman]
      #5289272 - 06/25/12 10:19 PM Attachment (116 downloads)

Here are two other shots.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cbowman
newbie


Reged: 05/13/10

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: cbowman]
      #5289273 - 06/25/12 10:20 PM Attachment (90 downloads)

and the last pic

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
langejcarl
sage
*****

Reged: 01/05/05

Loc: Michigan USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: cbowman]
      #5294495 - 06/29/12 08:47 AM

My understanding is that the 10 means it is 25mm, the 18 is the field stop and the glasses symbol means long eye relief. Hope that helps some.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suburbanskies
sage


Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New Jersey, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: cbowman]
      #5295474 - 06/29/12 08:49 PM

Curtis,

I have a pair of the 44 41 31, identical to yours. Once I took it apart for cleaning and yes, it is 3 elements in 2 groups. One element looked obviously non-spherical so I presume that is the aspheric element. I bought this used and the seller sold it as the "25mm Zeiss aspheric triplet" and I believe this is correct. Wonderful performance to my eyes!

Mark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Heavens Above
sage


Reged: 01/25/09

Loc: Bristol, UK
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5297327 - 07/01/12 04:45 AM

I have a pair of Zeiss E-PL 10x/20 No 44 42 32 and these are amazing eyepieces. E-PL stands for extra planar. I believe this refers to the eyepiece having an extra flat field. Their is post somewhere in the eyepiece forum that explains the different versions. The E-PL is rarer than the PL and more expensive. They are my favourite eyepieces.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cbowman
newbie


Reged: 05/13/10

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Heavens Above]
      #5298555 - 07/01/12 09:24 PM

Thank you all very much.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Heavens Above]
      #5312799 - 07/11/12 01:12 PM

How long ago did you purchase your Zeiss microscope eyepiece 44 42 32? Was it made in China?

I bought one about a year and a half ago directly from Zeiss and it was made in China. Mine is also unusable as an astro eyepiece. Bright field (no coatings?), field curvature, etc.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Heavens Above
sage


Reged: 01/25/09

Loc: Bristol, UK
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5313057 - 07/11/12 05:32 PM

Hi Roger

I bought them about 18 months ago of Ebay, second hand, so I don't know how old they are. The say Carl Zeiss West Germany on the rubber eye guards. There is a photo of them in my recent CN review of my Tak Mewlon 210.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2791


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Heavens Above]
      #5313548 - 07/11/12 11:03 PM

You are lucky. Those are obviously the ones that were still made in Germany.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rfr66
member
*****

Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5363893 - 08/11/12 08:39 PM

I have a pair of the E-PL 10x/20 that are made in China and can say that they perform amazingly well just as everyone described. Maybe you had a defective one. They are my favorite eyepieces and the only ones I am using for binoviewing. I tried a pair of the ridiculously expensive, $1400 each, E-PL 10x/25s but returned them. The extra wide angle on those was achieved with an additional screw on glass element that made the image much softer and fuzzier as if it stretched everything wider.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: rfr66]
      #5524245 - 11/17/12 11:54 AM

Anybody know what is the difference between KPL, EPL, and plain PL? How does this effect their astronomical use? Does "W" mean "wide"? And for a 10x eyepiece, how far can you push these with a barlow before the image degrades? Do these eyepieces take barlowing particularly well??

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5524528 - 11/17/12 02:58 PM

Hi Chris

"PL" means "planokular", which means flat field eyepiece. "KPL" = Compensating flat field eyepiece (an eyepiece that compensates for the last spherochromatism in apochromatic microscope objectives). "EPL" = Episcopic flat field eyepiece (I think! Not sure). The PL or flat field eyepieces can safely be used for astronomical telescopes. W does indeed mean wide. Wide is usually around 50° AFOV in the microscope world...

My own 10x (25mm focal length) microscope eyepieces can be barlowed in the extreme. I usually stack Baader GPCs to reach short effective focal lengths with them. 3x - 4x barlow effect is no problem at all. I believe Erik Bakker, who has identical eyepieces, also barlows his into very high magnification. Microscope eyepieces are usually designed with very long f/ratios in mind (with a high magnification objective, f/ratios can go into the hundreds!), which explains why they work so extremely well with barlows.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5524546 - 11/17/12 03:06 PM

Thanks Thomas -

Just to be totally clear - you're not recommending the KPL or EPL eyepieces for astronomical use?
Thanks for the info!

Best,

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5524668 - 11/17/12 04:44 PM

Quote:

Just to be totally clear - you're not recommending the KPL or EPL eyepieces for astronomical use?




I can't say for sure, that they'll work without issues, as I don't have any experience with them at all. I've only used normal PL eyepieces and these have been spectacular.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Heavens Above
sage


Reged: 01/25/09

Loc: Bristol, UK
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5526378 - 11/18/12 03:55 PM

I use the EPL and have been told this is the highest quality version. I love mine. I buy other eyepieces but always come back to these.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Heavens Above]
      #5531173 - 11/20/12 10:21 PM

Does anybody have a source where these can be converted to 1.25" relatively cheaply?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5535552 - 11/23/12 01:45 PM

Quote:


I recently tried a pair of the current Zeiss 16mm eps and they were not of the same performance level. But that is another story....

Mark





Hi Mark,

I am interested in your experience with the current Zeiss 16mm. Are you referring to that one?

Stephan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Space Dragon
member


Reged: 02/19/12

Loc: Scotland UK
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5535579 - 11/23/12 01:58 PM

Quote:

Does anybody have a source where these can be converted to 1.25" relatively cheaply?




APM- 50 Euro each
Precise Parts- $35 each
35mm Film cannister-Free


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Space Dragon]
      #5535819 - 11/23/12 04:16 PM

Thanks - as I found, using the 35mm canister is easy and totally works. I don't feel like I'm missing any precision by using these. What I didn't realize - the lip of the canister is just wide enough to catch around the 1.25" hole, so height isn't too important. Very nice, just purchased the PL 10x/18's..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Space Dragon
member


Reged: 02/19/12

Loc: Scotland UK
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5535955 - 11/23/12 05:58 PM

Quote:

Thanks - as I found, using the 35mm canister is easy and totally works. I don't feel like I'm missing any precision by using these. What I didn't realize - the lip of the canister is just wide enough to catch around the 1.25" hole, so height isn't too important. Very nice, just purchased the PL 10x/18's..



I have the PL 10x/18 as well. Mine came with a reticle crosshair pointer which sat across the field stop in the plastic barrel.
I decided to remove this glass and then also took out the fieldstop to the ID of the barrel, which is 25mm.
The edge performance isn't perfect but I prefer the wider field and no vignetting in my Earthwins.
Mileage may vary, of course.
I like the fit of the 35mm film cans as well, no movement or rotation, with a length of electrical tape around the barrel.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5537095 - 11/24/12 11:34 AM

Hi Thomas,

The webpage of APM-Telescopes lists 9 different Zeiss Astro Eyepieces 1 1/4".
According Markus Ludes, all are made in China now.

7 of them are 25mm eyepieces. Depending on the model, they are priced EUR 215.00 - EUR 1,539.00 each. Wow, that is an impressive price range. Choosing the right one is a hard task.

Thomas, could you provide me with any suggestions on the best suited 25mm e.p. model for observations with a 150mm f/7.3 APO refractor / Baader FFC / Baader Mark V binoviewer combination?

Stephan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
suburbanskies
sage


Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New Jersey, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5537230 - 11/24/12 01:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I recently tried a pair of the current Zeiss 16mm eps and they were not of the same performance level. But that is another story....

Mark





Hi Mark,

I am interested in your experience with the current Zeiss 16mm. Are you referring to that one?

Stephan




Dear Stephan,

Yes, I was referring to this eyepiece. I had a pair for binoviewer (Baader Mark V) use with a Baader FFC, prism and f/9 refractor operating at ~f/36. The problem I had was that on Mars, there were sharp reflections radiating from the planet. However, the seller did not experience this issue and kindly agreed to take the eyepieces back. It is a shame because these eyepieces were very well manufactured, with smooth diopter adjustment.

The other issue that may be important to some users (not for me because I mostly use for planetary at f/36) was that edge of field was very bad at f/9. Lots of aberrations starting at 50% from the center. At f/11, it was much better and good enough for me, but probably not good enough for some people.

Mark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: suburbanskies]
      #5537312 - 11/24/12 02:23 PM

Hi Mark,

Thank you very much for your feedback, highly appreciated.
Too bad that the 16mm's did not work well for you, and great that the seller was kind enough to take them back.

I am a strictly binoviewer observer, using a 6" f/7.3 APO refractor in combination with a Baader Mark V and the FFC set at ~f/33. Our equipment is quite similar, so I would expect to see the same reflection issue as experienced by you with the 16mm.
Too bad, because the 16mm focal length looked very atractive to me, but the reported reflection issue on Mars makes them a no-go to me.

Stephan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Stellarfire]
      #5537455 - 11/24/12 04:05 PM

Hi Stephan

Quote:

The webpage of APM-Telescopes lists 9 different Zeiss Astro Eyepieces 1 1/4".
According Markus Ludes, all are made in China now.

7 of them are 25mm eyepieces. Depending on the model, they are priced EUR 215.00 - EUR 1,539.00 each. Wow, that is an impressive price range. Choosing the right one is a hard task.

Thomas, could you provide me with any suggestions on the best suited 25mm e.p. model for observations with a 150mm f/7.3 APO refractor / Baader FFC / Baader Mark V binoviewer combination?




Not an easy question to answer, since I haven't tried any of the eyepieces shown. The ones I use, and can highly recommend, are these:

http://www.bw-optik.de/katalog/bilder/zeiss_oberknochen.jpg

I can guarantee that they are in a class all by themselves. Totally outstanding. There's an error in the ad page shown, where they are listed as 27mm focal length, but they are 25mm.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Switzerland
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5537498 - 11/24/12 04:40 PM

Quote:

Hi Stephan

Quote:

The webpage of APM-Telescopes lists 9 different Zeiss Astro Eyepieces 1 1/4".
According Markus Ludes, all are made in China now.

7 of them are 25mm eyepieces. Depending on the model, they are priced EUR 215.00 - EUR 1,539.00 each. Wow, that is an impressive price range. Choosing the right one is a hard task.

Thomas, could you provide me with any suggestions on the best suited 25mm e.p. model for observations with a 150mm f/7.3 APO refractor / Baader FFC / Baader Mark V binoviewer combination?




Not an easy question to answer, since I haven't tried any of the eyepieces shown. The ones I use, and can highly recommend, are these:

http://www.bw-optik.de/katalog/bilder/zeiss_oberknochen.jpg

I can guarantee that they are in a class all by themselves. Totally outstanding. There's an error in the ad page shown, where they are listed as 27mm focal length, but they are 25mm.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark





Ok, thank you, Thomas!

Stephan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5537887 - 11/24/12 09:34 PM

Thomas do you know where those can be purchased?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5564192 - 12/10/12 01:25 PM

Astrojensen - Are you using a barlow to achieve higher magnification with these rather than using your short focal length eyepieces? If so, which barlow are you using and could you describe how these perform better than your shorter length lenses?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5564286 - 12/10/12 02:31 PM

Hi Chris

When I use my 25mm Zeiss'es on my Maxbright binoviewer, I use the Baader GPCs to achieve higher magnifications. I have the 1.25x, 1.5x and 2.6x GPC and the 1.7x coma correcting GPC for newtonians. I can stack them and use extension tubes (not with the CC-GPC) to get higher magnfications. I also have a normal 2x GSO barlow, but it is not of the same quality as the Baader GPCs.

The advantage of using a rather long focal length eyepiece on a binoviewer combined with a barlow lens for high magnifications, compared to short focal length eyepieces, are manyfold. The chief advantage is that the collimation tolerances of a 25mm eyepiece with a 5x barlow in front of the binoviewer is five times less than a 5mm eyepiece and no barlow. This makes for relaxed viewing and easy merging. The longer eye relief and large eye lenses (28mm wide!) of the long focal length eyepieces also makes viewing very relaxed. It feels like looking out a window. The longer f/ratio of the light path that goes through the binoviewer prisms also introduce much less spherical aberration and false color than a faster f/ratio. The longer the better. Long focal length eyepieces are also inherently much easier to make with great precision than short focal length ones, so there are big advantages here as well.

All of this boils down to very relaxed, ultra high quality views. Sometimes I check the seeing with a pair of shorter focal length eyepieces, such as my 10mm GSO Superviews, but if the seeing is good and merit a longer view, out comes the 2.6x GPC, which turns the 25mm's into a pair of 9.6mm eyepieces with great eye relief. Of maybe the 1.5x GPC and extension tube, turning them into 13.1mm eyepieces, if the seeing can't support higher magnifications. I've got lots and lots of options with the GPCs.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5565072 - 12/10/12 11:05 PM

Thanks Thomas!
I was thinking of using a 1.7gpc (because I only have this one) with either a 4x or 5x powermate to catch a view of Jupiter. Would you say these eyepieces could support such a set up or am I pushing it? I'm asking because I just purchased a set of these lenses and I could clearly see that they're extremely sharp and contrasty! Or maybe I'm better off with a set of 16mm Brandons and barlowing my way down from there!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5565379 - 12/11/12 03:39 AM

The eyepieces can take any amount of barlowing you can throw at them! It's the scope that'll give up first! Remember that with a 120mm scope, you only have so much light. I usually stop my 6" refractor down to 125mm when observing Jupiter and I find that a magnification of 120x is usually the best. A 4x Powermate and 25mm eyepieces will give 144x and by then Jupiter is starting to get a bit dim. But do try it and see what you find. It will be excellent for objects with high surface brightness, such as the Jovian satellites and the Moon. Saturn will also be superb.

The best way to find wisdom in these matters is to do a lot of experiments.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5565513 - 12/11/12 08:21 AM

I've pushed my Burgess Binoviewer and a pair of SA LER 6mm eyepieces on my 10" f/4.8 Dob up to 600x with good results. This was for Mars when it was at about 7 arcsec and smaller last Spring. But for Jupiter I usually keep the power down to about 300x or less.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5565521 - 12/11/12 08:33 AM

Thomas,

Quote:

I usually stop my 6" refractor down to 125mm when observing Jupiter and I find that a magnification of 120x is usually the best. A 4x Powermate and 25mm eyepieces will give 144x and by then Jupiter is starting to get a bit dim. But do try it and see what you find. It will be excellent for objects with high surface brightness, such as the Jovian satellites and the Moon. Saturn will also be superb.




Why stop down the 6" refractor? Does it have edge aberrations? If Jupiter seems too bright, there are better ways to solve that problem than stopping down the aperture. I would never give up aperture unless it's to cover up some defect at the edge of the mirror or objective, such as a turned edge. If Jupiter appears bright in a 6" telescope, I really think that the observer's eyes are not properly adjusted for observing planets.

Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5565621 - 12/11/12 09:48 AM

Quote:

Why stop down the 6" refractor? Does it have edge aberrations?




Yes. It has quite a bad case of turned down edge. 125mm is the max before it shows up, determined with a ronchi grating.

Quote:

If Jupiter seems too bright, there are better ways to solve that problem than stopping down the aperture. I would never give up aperture unless it's to cover up some defect at the edge of the mirror or objective, such as a turned edge. If Jupiter appears bright in a 6" telescope, I really think that the observer's eyes are not properly adjusted for observing planets.




I agree and you're going to be happy when I tell you that I now usually observe Jupiter with a 12" dob, not stopped down. I really like the big, bright images. I am usually at 160x with it, via a 2.6x GPC and my 25mm Zeiss'es.


Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5879837 - 05/23/13 09:34 AM

Here are my 25mm Zeiss Aspherics E-PL eyepieces 10x/20, cant wait to test them



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5881583 - 05/24/13 03:08 AM

Oooh! Nice, nice!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5881647 - 05/24/13 05:55 AM

...one more picture!



I am interest how they will perform vs my RKEs 28mm!
I I will not be satisfie with them, I will sell them!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5883358 - 05/25/13 12:31 AM

I REALLLYYY want to hear your finds with these!!!!

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5883476 - 05/25/13 03:56 AM

Quote:

I REALLLYYY want to hear your finds with these!!!!

Pete




These are Carl Zeiss Aspheric 3 element ORTHOS, picture must be SUPERB!
Will all let you know!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5883485 - 05/25/13 04:02 AM

....these are true ORTHOS, with FOV 43", and do not sacrifie optical performances like 10x/23, 10x/25 versions.
The E-PL Version is the "Extra Flat Field" Version, and they are best you can have on market, and they are super rare!
They have same performances as ZAO I 25mm!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5883488 - 05/25/13 04:12 AM

I see that one is for sale-if it is still avaiable, so hurry up!

http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=80230&sor...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5939179 - 06/25/13 05:55 AM

Quote:

...one more picture!



I am interest how they will perform vs my RKEs 28mm!
I I will not be satisfie with them, I will sell them!




Well, in short, I have tested my RKE28mm vs Zeisses Aspherics 25mm, and I prefer RKEs over Zeisses, and floating effect is so unique.....one negative thing on Zeisses: coatings on lenses can be easily removed when cleaning eyepieces often, which is big minus for Zeiss, when RKEs coating is MUCH MUCH better, which means, you can push hard when cleaning, and coating still stays, and on Zeisses completly removes!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Never2Busy4You
super member
*****

Reged: 11/20/11

Loc: Slower Lower Delaware U.S.A.
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5939236 - 06/25/13 07:33 AM

Wow, I am really surprised the coatings are so poor since these are used in labs around the world and carry a premium price.
Could it be you received a pair with defective coatings, a bad batch, or bad application? I would place a call to Zeiss.
Good Luck,
Jeffrey G.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5939245 - 06/25/13 07:42 AM

Quote:

Wow, I am really surprised the coatings are so poor since these are used in labs around the world and carry a premium price.
Could it be you received a pair with defective coatings, a bad batch, or bad application? I would place a call to Zeiss.
Good Luck,
Jeffrey G.




They arrived new, but I have read twice before about poor coating on Zeisses microscope eyepieces, and now I know about what it was word. But anyway, they provide superb views, but still for me not better than RKE 28mm, without doubt!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mark8888
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/24/10

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Never2Busy4You]
      #5939340 - 06/25/13 09:08 AM

I wonder if any other Zeiss micro eyepiece owners out there can report if the coatings are "easily removed", or if they're just fine?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: mark8888]
      #5939360 - 06/25/13 09:20 AM

I must admit, I raised an eyebrow or three, when reading this. The coatings on my Zeiss eyepieces have always been the very best and repeated, gentle, cleanings have left them completely unaffected.

BTW, one should never, EVER, push hard when cleaning lenses. Not because the coatings may rub off, but because a small, hard dust grain may be pushed hard enough to scratch the glass. Dust isn't just pollen, tiny bits of human skin or hair, but can also be tiny grains of quartz, one of the hardest materials known to man. Common sand is largely made of quarz. Think about that. A friend of mine absolutely ruined a 40mm Zeiss huygenian by "cleaning" the eye lens of it with his hankerchief, which had picked up a grain of sand somewhere. It wasn't pretty.

A speck of dust or a few doesn't warrant a cleaning in my opinion, but a visible layer of dust does, as does greasy spots, as you never know what may thrive in that grease.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
azure1961p
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5940670 - 06/25/13 11:27 PM

Zeiss has had some complaints in the past on shoddy or cheap microscope parts. Flimsy plastic and such on the Koehler housing or some such. A gentleman in Israel if I recall bought one that was like this despite the premium model and name brand. Its there in the Microscope forum here on CN. Its a little shocking to read these remarks time and again when Zeiss is supposed to be the benchmark and none to cheap.

Last time Zi had coatings wipe away it was a $95 pair of binos from Celestron back in the 80s. Swaths of coating just came right off after a year or so.

Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mark8888
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/24/10

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5940695 - 06/25/13 11:54 PM

Could the problem be limited to the ones made outside Germany? I think I have heard that there are big quality differences amongst Zeiss micro eyepieces depending on where they are made...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: mark8888]
      #5940804 - 06/26/13 01:26 AM

Quote:

Could the problem be limited to the ones made outside Germany? I think I have heard that there are big quality differences amongst Zeiss micro eyepieces depending on where they are made...




These eyepieces are bought directly from Germany, and there are made(I have asked that).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: mark8888]
      #5940866 - 06/26/13 03:00 AM

Quote:

I wonder if any other Zeiss micro eyepiece owners out there can report if the coatings are "easily removed", or if they're just fine?




I have and had many Zeiss eyepieces over the decades. All of them had/have superb and very durable coatings. My latest Zeiss eyepieces have the Lotutec coating, which is also of the highest quality. None of the Zeiss coatings ever failed on me. Not even in harsh conditions with my Zeiss Marine 7x50 B/GA binoculars. Sold them when they were well over 25 years old with the optics/coatings still in as new/perfect condition. They are not quite as transmissive and contrasty as the current Zeiss coatings of course. Some progression has been made


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5940868 - 06/26/13 03:06 AM

I'd be really interested to see how the coatings look now. What cleaning method did you use? I've bought a few copies of Zeiss's microscope eyepieces and have found some design variation within allegedly the same model.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: chrisg]
      #5941297 - 06/26/13 11:32 AM

Unfortunately Zeiss is outsourcing their microscope eyepieces to China and continuing to charge exorbitant prices. I bought one for $500 with the APM adapter a year and a half ago and they really are junk. No better than some $50 eyepieces I have. As bright as the field is, I doubt they are even coated. Lots of field curvature. And yes they are the E-PL version. Stock number is 44 42 32.

I will however add that the Zeiss Diascope eyepieces are exquisite, assuming they're still made in Germany.

Edited by RodgerHouTex (06/26/13 11:36 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PJ Anway
Double-Star Observer
*****

Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: North Coast
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5941800 - 06/26/13 05:30 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

The original Zeiss 25mm that APM sold was the 44 41 31 - Pl 10x/18 (pictured below). It came with a TMB labeled case and had a 1.25" barrel. I purchased it from APM in 2007.

It was advertised as the TMB 25mm aspheric ortho in a Zeiss housing.
Here is what it said in the email I got from APM: "The TMB 25 mm 54° aspheric ortho in new less expensive Zeiss Housing (black version) is in stock and costs Euro 190 (at today's rate about US $ 253)"
So according to Markus (at that time) it was the same lens that went into the TMB Aspheric ortho.
Here is a pic of the case it came in:


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5941829 - 06/26/13 05:46 PM

Quote:


I will however add that the Zeiss Diascope eyepieces are exquisite, assuming they're still made in Germany.




Last year they were still made in Germany and exquisite.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
PJ Anway
Double-Star Observer
*****

Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: North Coast
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5941871 - 06/26/13 06:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I will however add that the Zeiss Diascope eyepieces are exquisite, assuming they're still made in Germany.




Last year they were still made in Germany and exquisite.




I agree Erik, the best 25mm I've looked through!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Erik Bakker
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: PJ Anway]
      #5941962 - 06/26/13 06:52 PM

The Diascopes I am talking about and own are the 16.7 and 12.8 mm eyepieces with an AFOV of 69 degrees. The 16.7 is NLA new, the 12.8 is still in production for use in the Zeiss Victory Diascope spotters.

The 25 mm's, which I also have, are stunners in their own way, but with an AFOV of around 52 degrees. These are older Zeiss microscope eyepieces. They work very well in a bino, as they were designed to do.

Hope this clarifies.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5942285 - 06/26/13 10:58 PM

I have the 12.8 mm and 25-6 mm zoom Diascopes, both of which are still available with Zeiss adapters. The 12.8 mm is remarkable. The zoom is very nice also, but as all zooms are, a bit of a compromise. You can only optimize a zoom for one focal length and all the other focal lengths will be compromises. But the zoom range is unbelievable. 1/4 inch to 1 inch with the twist of the barrel. Very nice.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Best 25mm eyepieces ever! new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5943131 - 06/27/13 01:36 PM

Quote:

I bought one for $500 with the APM adapter a year and a half ago and they really are junk. No better than some $50 eyepieces I have. As bright as the field is, I doubt they are even coated. Lots of field curvature. And yes they are the E-PL version. Stock number is 44 42 32.




Interesting...seems like there's a lot of variation among the eyepieces..
All the Zeiss micro eyepieces I've had obvious AR coating, and the E-PL's were clearly flatter field than my PL's. I've been scanning the auctions on that big auction site and there really does seem to be lots of variations..
None have been quite as well made as the Diascope eyepieces though!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)


Extra information
4 registered and 5 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  TG, Geo557 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 14506

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics