· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User You are not logged in. [Login] Entrance · Main Index · Search · New user · Who's Online FAQ · Calendar Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all) JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's       #5235321 - 05/23/12 08:57 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   A few years ago, I found a pair of old Fisher Dietz 7x50 binos at a flea market. A quick view with them showed reasonably sharp optics and a very pleasing image brightness, and good allignment, so I parted with my $10. These are nothing really special. They appear to feature coated lenses, but the porro prisms are uncoated. They are not sealed in any way, but they are lightweight and have a comfortable feel, giving pleasing views. I took them everywhere, hiking (fair weather), travelling and made a tripod adaptor for night use. Then one day I left them on top of the TV. The kids managed to nudge them off, and since, they've been unusable with a misallignment. I almost cried. There are no prism tilt screws. Having nothing to loose, I disassembled them and found the prism shelves are lapped and fit the prisms quite tightly, there is no "wiggle" room to work with. They got put up on the shelf for the last few years, I was stumped. Well, now I've joined CN, and read a few articles on binocular alligning, so I found myself inspired to try again. In examining the bino's, I eventually discovered that the objectives are mounted in eccentric lense cells. I found that by loosening the lock ring, I could rotate the objectives and the image would shift accordingly. Encouraged, I mounted them on my tripod and pointed towards a distant power-pole top insulator (the furthest thing easily visible thru yesterday's fog), maybe 300m away. I carefully rotated one objective about 5 degrees at a time, and magically, the images began to coincide. Once I was satisfied, I carefully locked the lens cell back down with the retaining ring, and spent some time playing with this old friend. The fog began to receed, giving me the lights of a power plant, some 20km distant, to test against. This set isn't PERFECT yet, but it's no longer head-ache inducing. I'd guess I'm alligned within 1/20th FOV, probably as good as they ever were. I post this simply to encourage anyone else with an "old friend" that's suffered a similar fateful fall. There is little to loose. J Post Extras:       Rich V. Post Laureate Reged: 01/02/05 Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5235409 - 05/23/12 10:07 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Good story, Jason. There was a time when binoculars didn't necessarily come with "collimation screws" as they commonly do now. The better Porro prism binos like Fujinons and Nikons still use eccentrics. Imagine that! Glad to hear things worked out for you. Rich Post Extras:       marcelof sage Reged: 05/24/10 Loc: Necochea,Bs As,Argentina Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5235475 - 05/23/12 10:36 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   There are sure you who in the blow did not twist a barrel? They contain objetive and they are screwed in the body of the binocular.In the binocular German type. I have an old Tasco model N º 306, which I cannibalized to do a finder .Has also rings exentrics.I am considering to reconstruct it. It was not so bad. Very good your narrative. We would like to see photos of "Fisher Dietz" Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: marcelof]       #5235496 - 05/23/12 10:46 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Rich, I've only ever monkeyed with the Bushnell and Celestron style porro binos before, always had a screw to fall back on. In searching for articles on binocular repair (and discarding thousands of "DON'T DISASSEMBLE YOUR BINO'S" posts, LOL), I've never found much reference to the eccentrics. It's a subtle thing, maybe 1mm thicker on one side, but I new it must be how it would be done on these binos. There had to be a way built in, as they were not high-end enough to have relied on precision manufacturing. Luckily it worked out. Marcelof, I'd removed the barrels previously in my search for collumnation screws (once all other efforts had been exhausted, natch). I adjusted the eccentric on the lens cell within the barrel. To get there, I had to remove the trim rings, and then get the lock rings to loosen, a task in itself. From there, it was "easy", tweak'n'see, repeated dozens of times until satisfaction was gained. I was quite upset when they got dropped, as I've used very few binoculars that offered such crisp, clear, bright views and a very finely defined depth of field.... They add a beautiful 3d appearance to a scene. I'll see about getting a photo for you. J Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5235527 - 05/23/12 11:10 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Just for Marcelof, here are some photos of my Fisher Dietz 7x50's, with home made tripod adaptor. J Post Extras:       BillC on a new path Reged: 06/04/04 Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5235569 - 05/23/12 11:31 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi J: I am happy you have aligned your binos well enough to give yourself a pleasing view. However, those who told you not to disassemble them were not passing on words to be “discard(ed).” They have probably learned the hard way what you may be on the verge of finding out. Cloudy Nights is a social gathering for amateurs and features some experts . . . who aren’t. Collimating binos with screws OR eccentrics is NOT complicated at all! However, without the proper knowledge of the process, you are on a slippery slope. You may perform a fine Conditional Alignment at the expense of taking the bino farther from true collimation. This may make the bino unusable for anyone else who tries to use it if they have a differing IPD. I encourage anyone who is trying to expand his or her knowledge of consumer optics by tinkering; that’s certainly how I got started. However, I just want to let you know there is MUCH more to the process than your experience so far is letting you know. When I started tinkering with my 3-inch Gilbert telescope (in a paper tube with a built in plastic EP) I thought I could increase its 80-power by holding a large magnifying glass in front of the aperture. As a child, it seemed totally logical. As an old optician, I cringe at ever being so stupid—regardless of my youth! Have fun! Learn much! Just be prepared for some unexpected discoveries. Cheers, BillC Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: BillC]       #5235633 - 05/23/12 12:13 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Indeed, I know that I know very little on this subject, but with $10 invested, little to be lost. Local optical shops declined to attempt repair. I'd have been happy to have a knowledgable person allign them. So far, a half-dozen people (with a half-dozen IPD's) have looked thru these since I adjusted them, and all have declared them to be nicely useable. For me, this is success. I do understand the risks, and certainly won't be attempting to allign the next pair of Swarovski's I see, LOL. This is, rather, the first positive development in the last couple years for this sad pair. At least I've gone from a pair of linked monoculars to a functional binocular again. I'd love to have some training as an optician, but without a suitable mentor or cash reserve, this seems unlikely. I'll have to learn myself what I can. I've a pair of 10x50s on the shelf next to this pair, another flea market find, that suffers the same problem. I'll likely make an attempt at them too soon. After all, what have I got to loose? J Post Extras:       GlennLeDrew Postmaster Reged: 06/18/08 Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5235895 - 05/23/12 03:03 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Jason, That's the spirit; get right in there and find out yourself. Good job! Having done your alignment on a not-so-distant target, chances are you will now be forcing your eyes to go a bit walleyed (diverging outward) when viewing really distant scenes. This is not a natural action of our eyes, and if anything, it's better to make our eyescross inward, which we do when focused on very near objects. I know it's only an estimate, but a misalignment of about 1/20 the field, which should be 50 degrees apparent, is a quite large 2.5 degrees. (I'm sure it must be less.) Mis-collimation should be no worse than a fraction of a degree, which you can achieve, I'm sure. You would do well to refine alignment on a very distant object Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: GlennLeDrew]       #5235932 - 05/23/12 03:23 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Thanks, Glen. I've probably over-estimated the remaining error, but indeed, that's my plan. The fog has cleared today, and the next few promise to stay that way. I'll see if I can set up tonight and stare at Polaris for a while. That should take care of things. I know that as it is, I can lift the bins to my eyes and for the first time since their fateful drop, my head doesn't swim at first glance, or when I put them down again. I see one continuous, circular FOV pretty much. My final test last night was viewing the strobes and switchgear lighting of a power plant some 24km distant across the harbour. When that didn't "double up" on me, I was VERY happy, and not a little relieved. Ultimately, I've got $10 into this pair, so little is lost attempting to repair them should it all go wrong. They are, however, something of a sentimental favourite. J Post Extras:       Mr. Bill Postmaster Reged: 02/09/05 Loc: Northeastern Cal Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5236248 - 05/23/12 07:00 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Jason My technique of conditional collimation is simple.... I usually use a distant (2 miles away) streetlight; Polaris works fine. Focus one barrel, defocus other barrel to a small disk. If collimated properly, the focused star should fall within the center of the disk on axis. If not adjust in small amounts until the images are superimposed. That's it. Post Extras:       marcelof sage Reged: 05/24/10 Loc: Necochea,Bs As,Argentina Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5236555 - 05/23/12 11:31 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Very good photos. Thank you Jason. I do not have any doubt that they belong to the same manufacturer that the Tasco Model Nº306. I want to do a support as this. That material you used? Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: marcelof]       #5236801 - 05/24/12 07:39 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Marcelof, The tripod mount is made from hard maple. There are 3 pieces.... The base is about 1" square, 2" high, grain orientated along the long axis. The bottom is bored out and a 1/4-20 nut, with notches cut in its flats (for the epoxy to grab), is epoxied in. Then a clamp is fabricated to fit the hinge post by boring a hole of similar diameter in a second piece of maple. Once bored, it's cut in half thru the centreline of the hole, with the grain direction chosen for clamping strenght. One half is glued and screwed (single counter-sunk screw) to the base made earlier. Holes are drilled and tapped for the clamp screws (2, I used stove bolts). All of it is finished on a drum sander mounted in a drill press until it's fit to the bin's requirements. It gets fairly narrow to allow small IPD's. I finished the piece by dying with RIT black clothing dye, and buffing on a wheel. It's a very stable base. Mr. Bill, excellent! I like the idea of defocusing one tube, thereby preventing the brain from eagerly merging a close but not perfect alignment! I will try this! J Post Extras:       marcelof sage Reged: 05/24/10 Loc: Necochea,Bs As,Argentina Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5237001 - 05/24/12 10:28 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   That well! It was not looking like a wood!.Maybe I do it of grillon. Last night I verified this technology of getting out of focus the ocular one. As Mr Bill said it allows to reach major precision since he prevents the brain from fusing the images. As he was saying to you, I began to recover the Tasco 7x50. Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: marcelof]       #5237053 - 05/24/12 10:57 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Neat! Can you post a photo of your Tasco? I didn't get around to further aligning my 7x50's last night, the sky was too good for that... Spent a couple hours cyclopsing around Ursa Major down to Corvus, and then after stowing the scope, spent some time perusing the rising Milky Way with the 7x50's. Was able to easily pick out several star clouds, a few nebulae and plenty of open clusters. I must say, it's good to have this old friend back! J J Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5240381 - 05/26/12 09:39 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Well, I must have been successful in fixing this pair, as it's been foggy the last few days. I've become rather curious as to the actual manufacturer of this pair of binos. Externally, they look almost identical to the Zeiss Jena Binoctem 7x50's. Indeed, the only difference I've been able to spot is a lack of spoke-like markings on the focus wheel of this pair, vs the photos of the Zeiss I've found online. I've examined them for maker's marks, and come away mostly with part numbers. However, inside the objective barrels, on the prism shelf, each is marked with what appears to be a circle, broken from 2-4 oclock and from 8-10 oclock, with a slash running from 2 to 8 oclock. Inside the circle is a pair of K's, the central one large, the second one about half as large, both printed in reverse. Next to this mark/logo is a large "15", also printed in reverse. Parts numbers tend to start with J, like "J-E22" and "J-B119" on the objective end hinge pieces. I believe these are german made, but it doesn't specifically say so anywhere. There is an oval foil sticker on the hinge post, but it is no longer legible. Any help is appreciated. Thanks! J Post Extras:       rydberg scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 02/25/04 Loc: Richmond, KY, USA Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5240540 - 05/26/12 11:41 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   They probably are Japanese. The J numbers are typically indication of Japanese manufacturers ( I am not a expert, so someone else will chime in if I am wrong). JB 119 = Nisshin Kogaku Kogyo Co. Ltd., Tokyo The JB identifies the maker of the finished binocular, while JE identifies the maker of the body only. I cannot find JE-22. All this (and much more!) can be found at This Web Page . Marco Post Extras:       JasonBurry sage Reged: 04/27/12 Loc: Cape Spencer, NB, Canada Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: rydberg]       #5240686 - 05/26/12 01:05 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Wow, Thanks! J Post Extras:       marcelof sage Reged: 05/24/10 Loc: Necochea,Bs As,Argentina Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: JasonBurry]       #5240782 - 05/26/12 02:12 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   This one is old.If, then I post news (I am learning). He says J - B71 in the body. In the direction of flirk of down you can see it Edited by marcelof (05/26/12 03:01 PM) Post Extras:       rydberg scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 02/25/04 Loc: Richmond, KY, USA Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: marcelof]       #5240803 - 05/26/12 02:33 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hello Marcelof: JB 71 = Toho Koki Co. Ltd., Tokyo Marco Post Extras:       marcelof sage Reged: 05/24/10 Loc: Necochea,Bs As,Argentina Re: Adventures in Bino Repair -Fisher Dietz 7x50's [Re: rydberg]       #5240974 - 05/26/12 04:31 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   In the direction of flirck have 4 more! I was absent to the class where they were teaching to posting big photos! Does someone want to explain to me? Post Extras:       Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all) Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Extra information 3 registered and 29 anonymous users are browsing this forum. 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