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Pages: 1 JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam       #5241503 - 05/26/12 11:24 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I'm completely new to AP and thought perhaps the way to start was with a simple MS Studio Lifecam modded for telescope use. I've tried the cam with PHD guiding software , works like a charm, ($50 camera + $10 for the extension) so it should be a great/cheap guidecam, from what i've seen so far, but thought before i get into the "serious" CCD's why not give some planetary AP a shot with this little HD camera. It is an 8 megapixel CMOS sensor with the ability to take 10 megapixel stills. I figure get comfortable with all the imaging software (registax 6) and Photoshop ( know this very well as i am a web developer) and see what happens. It is capable of 1080p HD 1920x1024 using SharpCap or VirtualDub.. it's got a sizable sensor and is as cheap and affordable as can be. I'm looking for some insight and feedback to help me get started.. i have an AT72ED doublet refractor and AT8IN Imaging newt as my scopes and i'm waiting on a CGEM mount to carry it all... any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome. Post Extras:       lukasik Carpal Tunnel Reged: 10/11/05 Loc: Lawrenceville, Georgia Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: JoeM101]       #5241982 - 05/27/12 10:52 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi Joe, What framerate can you get from that camera? I assume you may be leaving the lens in place so that would be afocal imaging? Have you tried to get an image through the camera and scope together. That may be one of your first hurdles - just getting them coupled together. You can use the moon first just to see if you can focus and to practice. It's big and bright - helps to sort out all the basics with a easier target. Lots of help to be found here. Regards, Bob Post Extras:       JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: lukasik]       #5242149 - 05/27/12 12:29 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi Bob, i can get 30 fps with this camera up to 640x480, at 800x600 15fps and at 1920x1080 10fps... i have the lens in place, but am picking up a second one for $30 and modding that one with no lens. I have a Baader UV-IR filter for the lensless mod and a GSO polarizing filter for the one with lens. It works very well so far with SharpCap and VirtualDub and can get full 1080p Post Extras:       lukasik Carpal Tunnel Reged: 10/11/05 Loc: Lawrenceville, Georgia Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: JoeM101]       #5242290 - 05/27/12 02:00 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hi Joe, once you have the mechanical coupling worked out (perhaps you already have) it sounds like you're ready to go out and have at it. I'm not sure what formats and all you can save to but if you have issues with software folks here can help try to sort it out. Look forward to seeing some images. Regards, Bob Post Extras:       JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: lukasik]       #5242332 - 05/27/12 02:37 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   i got the coupling all worked out, i use a 2.25"x1.25" extension, whreby i can add or stack filters and use it as any EP, here is an image of my setup: notice the Teflon tape around the front of the housing, screws right into the adapter for a perfectly centered tight fit every time. I even went as far as cutting out the housing over the aluminum cold-finger, was going to place a tiny peltier thermo-electric cooler on there because of the heat this little puppy generates. Post Extras:       WarmWeatherGuy professor emeritus Reged: 08/27/11 Loc: Orlando, FL 28° N, 81° W Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: JoeM101]       #5242438 - 05/27/12 03:44 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   If you're familiar with Photoshop then you know that you can take a 640x480 picture and resize it to 6400x4800 which is a 30 megapixel image. Microsoft markets their web cams as being 5 or 10 megapixel by essentially resizing a tiny image and unnecessarily making your file much bigger. I would avoid using that setting. 1920x1024 will give you 2 megapixel images. Other than that I love my LifeCam Cinema and have seen good results from people who have modified it for prime focus. It seems like the trick for good planet images is long focal length. The best images are from C11 and C14 telescopes. Post Extras:       JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: WarmWeatherGuy]       #5242526 - 05/27/12 04:47 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   this particular LifeCam Studio is an 8 Megapixel camera modified for prime focus. My AT8IN is a 800mm f/4. I will try and figure it all out, get some test images, process using registax following a primer i found on youtube and post my results.. eventually, weather permitting. Post Extras:       GreatGigInTheSky sage Reged: 02/06/11 Loc: Santa Clara, California Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: JoeM101]       #5242599 - 05/27/12 05:47 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Joe, I'll elaborate a bit on WarmWeatherGuy's comment regarding focal length -- with an f/4 scope, your image scale is going to be tiny. We're generally imaging at f/20 and up for planets, so I would suggest a barlow lens or Televue Powermate (they make one that's 5x, which would give you f/20 with your scope) as your next purchase. Post Extras:       JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: GreatGigInTheSky]       #5242666 - 05/27/12 06:33 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Quote: Joe, I'll elaborate a bit on WarmWeatherGuy's comment regarding focal length -- with an f/4 scope, your image scale is going to be tiny. We're generally imaging at f/20 and up for planets, so I would suggest a barlow lens or Televue Powermate (they make one that's 5x, which would give you f/20 with your scope) as your next purchase. funny you should say that Jeff, I've been contemplating a 5x powermate but leaning towards the 2" 4x. This along with my Baader MPCC (0 mag) should do the trick with the planned T2i, any thoughts? Post Extras:       GreatGigInTheSky sage Reged: 02/06/11 Loc: Santa Clara, California Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: JoeM101]       #5243089 - 05/27/12 11:37 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I don't think the Baader MPCC is going to do anything for you for planetary -- you're only using the very center of the field when doing this type of imaging, so coma doesn't matter. If you use the T2i, you'll be recording video with a reduced field to get a high frame rate. You may be thinking of the 4x to avoid vignetting, but for this application, it's not going to come into play. The thing about the 5x is that it's more versatile because it can be used with an inexpensive extension tube to provide anywhere between 5x and 7x magnification. You can see that here. The 4x, due to its design, can't do this. You might also consider the 3x Televue barlow for this reason, which can provide magnifications between 3x and 5x. Post Extras:       JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: GreatGigInTheSky]       #5243518 - 05/28/12 10:04 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   thanks Jeff, very helpful! I was thinking of getting a GSO 2" 2x ED Barlow for 2x and the TV 4x but after looking into it a little more, perhaps a 5x powermate would be a good addition for planetary AP. I have 2" focusers on my scopes and want to take advantage of that as much as possible Post Extras:       GreatGigInTheSky sage Reged: 02/06/11 Loc: Santa Clara, California Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: JoeM101]       #5244223 - 05/28/12 04:26 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Joe, I understand the thought -- I have the 2" focuser myself, but use a 1.25" adapter for planetary work. The 2" is great for wide fields and being able to fully illuminate a large imaging chip like you'd use for deep sky imaging, but for planetary, we're working with small fields of view where high frame rates mean the difference between freezing the atmospheric seeing and getting blurred images. Generally, we tend to use the highest magnification (largest image scale) that the seeing will allow. Sometimes, we might want to do something like image all the moons of Saturn, but for this, it makes more sense to image at prime focus anyway. Post Extras:       JoeM101 professor emeritus Reged: 04/09/12 Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702 Re: Beginner AP easing into to it with a webcam [Re: GreatGigInTheSky]       #5244334 - 05/28/12 05:31 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   got it... much clearer now i have to admit. look forward to getting my feet wet. Will post first light attempt, whenever the sky gods allow us to see past the clouds! clear skies? Post Extras:       Pages: 1

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