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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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steve@37n83.9w
sage


Reged: 01/20/11

Loc: Kentucky
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Jae]
      #5252714 - 06/02/12 10:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Buy it. I have both versions of the 8x32 SE (leaded glass and eco-glass) and they are SUPERB.

Steve




How do you tell the difference which one you have ? Is there any truth to the old "leaded" glass advantage touted in used Zeiss 7x42 Dialyt ads ?

Me - personally I bought one as I just had to know....but I don't use it as much as my roof prism ones as I can hold the roofs better, more steady but for the money they hold their own against anything.




The later production run of 8x32 SE's with the eco-glass have serial numbers in the 550xxx range. The only slight difference I can discern between the leaded glass and eco-glass versions is that in daytime terrestrial use the eco-glass version as a slightly warmer color balance.

I'm sure this has more to do with different coatings than the different glass used. I can detect no difference in resolution/sharpness....both versions are stellar performers .

Steve


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Unknownastron
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: CatsEye Observatory,Rural Sout...
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5252730 - 06/02/12 10:56 PM

A good rule of thumb for binoculars: If you can afford the price, never resist.
Clear skies and clean glass,
Mike


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Simon S
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/07/07

Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Unknownastron]
      #5252880 - 06/03/12 02:31 AM

Pinwood, thanks for your concerns with blackouts. Is this only when wearing glasses, or just a result of the long eye relief?

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alsendk
member


Reged: 04/23/11

Loc: Denmark
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5253230 - 06/03/12 11:09 AM

Kidney bean effect?
please explain


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Rich V.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: alsendk]
      #5253278 - 06/03/12 11:44 AM

Quote:

Kidney bean effect?
please explain




This might help:

spherical aberration of the exit pupil

Rich


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Pinewood
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/07/04

Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5253348 - 06/03/12 12:31 PM

Quote:

Pinwood, thanks for your concerns with blackouts. Is this only when wearing glasses, or just a result of the long eye relief?



Hello Simon ,

It seems that wearers of specs are more prone to blackouts, also known as kidney bean effect, than those who do not wear specs.

Regarding Kenny's method of compensating for extended eye relief, I must write that similar solution, bending the eyecups halfway down did me no good. Another suggested solution is to tip the binoculars up, when using. I found that uncomfortable and I was unwilling to have a binocular that required special handling. As I have written elsewhere, I find the 8x32 SE to be unfriendly. However, I am certainly in a minority in that opinion.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur


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KennyJ
The British Flash
*****

Reged: 04/27/03

Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5253402 - 06/03/12 01:17 PM

Arthur ( and others ),

The fitting of washers as spacers to eradicate the possibility of placing the eyes slightly too close to the eyepieces seems to achieve more than does simply folding the eye cups.

TeleVue supply what is effectively a similarly acting centraliser to use with their longer eye - relief eyepieces which also works a treat.

But I understand your point about the inconvenience of having to modify ANYTHING with binoculars to make them the pleasure to use that they ought to be.

Personally, I don't even find the standard Nikon SE to present a problem at all when I'm wearing my glasses,even with the eye cups fully rolled back.

It's only when NOT wearing glasses that the slightly excessive eye relief combined with the spherical aberration of the exit - pupils combine to make eye placement a bit finicky.

Kenny


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Simon S
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/07/07

Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: KennyJ]
      #5253425 - 06/03/12 01:44 PM

Rich V, Kidney bean effect is the result of viewing a binocular with long eye relief to closely to the eyes. The result is a black "blob" appearing in the view, similar to a Kidney bean.
Arthur thank you for your comments, but I think me mind is set.
I will let you know how I get on.


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Rich V.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5253487 - 06/03/12 02:36 PM

Quote:

Rich V, Kidney bean effect is the result of viewing a binocular with long eye relief to closely to the eyes. The result is a black "blob" appearing in the view, similar to a Kidney bean.





Not necessarily, hence the link to "spherical aberration of the exit pupil". Any eyepiece will black out if your eye is located inside of the proper eye relief point. The SA is a different animal...

Sorry most of the links in the archived posts are dead.

Halfway down this page:

http://www.telescope-optics.net/eyepiece_aberration_2.htm

Just past halfway down here:

http://www.handprint.com/ASTRO/ae3.html

Rich

Edited by Rich V. (06/03/12 02:47 PM)


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Joe Ogiba
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/14/02

Loc: NJ USA
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5253509 - 06/03/12 02:52 PM

I remember reading about the 8x32 SE way back in the late 90's on BetterViewDesired.com .

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edwincjones
Close Enough
*****

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Unknownastron]
      #5253581 - 06/03/12 03:51 PM

Quote:

A good rule of thumb for binoculars: If you can afford the price, never resist.

Mike




to my determent, my belief also

edj


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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: BillC]
      #5253862 - 06/03/12 08:14 PM

Quote:

It's MY birding bino.

BillC




Ditto


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Pinewood
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/07/04

Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5253888 - 06/03/12 08:46 PM

Quote:


Arthur thank you for your comments, but I think me mind is set.
I will let you know how I get on.




Simon,

Most people love the 8x32 SE. I prefer many other glasses including the Nikon 8x30 EII.

One of the lesser discussed aspects of using binoculars is the human-optics interface. One can put a binocular on an optical bench, describe it specifications and still one cannot be sure how each user finds the view.

I do not enjoy struggling with optics, rather I look for the "easy" or "relaxed view." I am the same way with computers. After struggling with Windows XP, I vowed never to use a Microsoft operating system, again; a vow I have kept.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur


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planetmalc
sage


Reged: 10/21/09

Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5254449 - 06/04/12 10:01 AM

Quote:



Most people love the 8x32 SE. I prefer many other glasses including the Nikon 8x30 EII.

Arthur




Hear hear! I reckon there's a lot more to a good binocular than edge-to-edge sharpness (which is where the 8 x 32 SE excels). I did some extensive field-testing (daylight only) on 5 squat 8x Porro's of 30/32mm aperture, ranking them on a combination of abberations that I was prepared to put up with, plus ergonomics and extended-viewing comfort (all gave brilliant views, of course), and came up with this list:-

1. Nikon 8 x 30 E2 (so you're not alone, Arthur!)
2. Zeiss (West) 8 x 30B (the 60 degree AFOV variant)
3. Nikon 8 x 32 SE
4. Nikon 8 x 30 E
5. Zeiss (West) 8 x 30

Edited by planetmalc (06/04/12 10:46 AM)


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steve@37n83.9w
sage


Reged: 01/20/11

Loc: Kentucky
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5254553 - 06/04/12 11:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Most people love the 8x32 SE. I prefer many other glasses including the Nikon 8x30 EII.

Arthur




Hear hear! I reckon there's a lot more to a good binocular than edge-to-edge sharpness (which is where the 8 x 32 SE excels). I did some extensive field-testing (daylight only) on 5 squat 8x Porro's of 30/32mm aperture, ranking them on a combination of abberations that I was prepared to put up with, plus ergonomics and extended-viewing comfort, and came up with this list:-

1. Nikon 8 x 30 E2 (so you're not alone, Arthur!)
2. Zeiss (West) 8 x 30B (the 60 degree AFOV variant)
3. Nikon 8 x 32 SE
4. Nikon 8 x 30 E
5. Zeiss (West) 8 x 30




Very nice list of 8x Porros used in your comparison. If you ever get the chance try the "sleeper" in 8x Porros, the Opticron 8x32 SR GA. The Opticron features great Japanese build quality, superlative optics, good ergonomics (at least for me), and sells for less than half of some of the other premium 8x Porros.

Like you and Arthur I'm a big fan of the EII which I use a lot for daytime terrestrial use because of its huge fov combined with its unerring ability to "center" the subject. I know it's a combination of how well a binocular fits you and of course your familiarity with the binocular but when I see something and bring the EII to my eyes for a closer look the subject is right there in the center virtually every time.

I also use my SE's a lot being one of the lucky ones not bothered by blackouts but normally use my SE's at night under the sky. I do however use the 12x50 SE during the day when I need a little extra reach to discern details in a distant subject.

Steve


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planetmalc
sage


Reged: 10/21/09

Re: Shall I or sould I resist? [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5254591 - 06/04/12 11:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Most people love the 8x32 SE. I prefer many other glasses including the Nikon 8x30 EII.

Arthur




Hear hear! I reckon there's a lot more to a good binocular than edge-to-edge sharpness (which is where the 8 x 32 SE excels). I did some extensive field-testing (daylight only) on 5 squat 8x Porro's of 30/32mm aperture, ranking them on a combination of abberations that I was prepared to put up with, plus ergonomics and extended-viewing comfort, and came up with this list:-

1. Nikon 8 x 30 E2 (so you're not alone, Arthur!)
2. Zeiss (West) 8 x 30B (the 60 degree AFOV variant)
3. Nikon 8 x 32 SE
4. Nikon 8 x 30 E
5. Zeiss (West) 8 x 30




Very nice list of 8x Porros used in your comparison. If you ever get the chance try the "sleeper" in 8x Porros, the Opticron 8x32 SR GA. The Opticron features great Japanese build quality, superlative optics, good ergonomics (at least for me), and sells for less than half of some of the other premium 8x Porros.

Like you and Arthur I'm a big fan of the EII which I use a lot for daytime terrestrial use because of its huge fov combined with its unerring ability to "center" the subject. I know it's a combination of how well a binocular fits you and of course your familiarity with the binocular but when I see something and bring the EII to my eyes for a closer look the subject is right there in the center virtually every time.

I also use my SE's a lot being one of the lucky ones not bothered by blackouts but normally use my SE's at night under the sky. I do however use the 12x50 SE during the day when I need a little extra reach to discern details in a distant subject.

Steve




Being a Brit, I see plenty of Opticrons in shops and have tried their 'Hi-Res' 8 x 32 Porro (which I think has the same optics set as the SR GA) and agree with everything you say about it; in fact, the whole range seems really good. It's also very light, which I like. Another great range that was around at the same time as the Hi-Res was the original Swift 'Ultralite' Porro series, and their 8 x 32 was certainly ultra-light! Slightly yellowish cast to the image, IIRC, but nothing too serious. Wish I'd bought one.


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Pinewood
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/07/04

Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5254707 - 06/04/12 01:30 PM

Hello all,

This is getting off topic. However, I would add the 8x30 Leitz Binuxit to my favorites, if only it had multi-coating. Even Dr. Merlitz thought well of it. Mine is almost 60 years old.

Happy collecting,
Arthur


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Simon S
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/07/07

Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5254758 - 06/04/12 02:07 PM

The Binuxit is a fabulous binocular.
The best 8x30 and out performs the 8x30 Oberkochen by a small way.


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FrankL
sage


Reged: 07/30/09

Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5254854 - 06/04/12 03:34 PM

Quote:

The Binuxit is a fabulous binocular.
The best 8x30 and out performs the 8x30 Oberkochen by a small way.



I agree, Simon. And if only the Binuxit and Zeiss Oberkochen had multi-coatings I think they would give the 8X32 SE a run for its money. My feeling is they both would be a little better.


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Neil Sanford
member


Reged: 11/20/11

Re: Shall I or sould I resist? new [Re: FrankL]
      #5255576 - 06/05/12 01:22 AM

(1) IMHO the kidney-bean problem in the 8x32SE is not solved by getting the correct eye distance from the eye lens. You can get the perfect eye distance via extended eyecups, or an appropriate hold (more below), and then this: gently and naturally roll your eyes in the field of view and see prominent, distracting, black edges.

(2) I use binos pretty much daily simply to enjoy views, switching among: Nikon 8x30E2, Fujinon 8x30FMT-SX, Leica 8x32BN, Swarovski 8x30W porro. Easiest/quickest eye placement is the E2, followed by the Fujinon & Leica about same, with the Swarovski slightly finicky on initial eye placement. (But if I could keep only one, it would be the Swarovski.) Anyway, in each you can gently, naturally roll your eyes around the field of view and enjoy. Not so in an 8x32SE.

(3) In that respect I find the 8x32SE quite unnatural and soon tiring. Sure, I can “relax” my eyes toward the centered field and appreciate its truly spectacular view. But that “relaxing” soon turns to tension, as it is natural to slightly roll the eyes when viewing, and then one sees a lot of black.

(4) Some years ago I requested here confirmation of my impression that the 8x42SE is much less prone to this problem. Kenny responded with his usual eloquence, “Yes.” In my 8x42SE I experience negligible kidney bean and enjoy this bino tremendously. Vaguely I recall that Nikon first issued the 10x42SE as a pure tour de force, an ideal. Soon after came the 8x32SE as a follow-on ... all same optics except objectives. Maybe that necessitated the compromise of worse kidney bean.

(5) IMHO with small porros, to get best eye distance, we should not be modifying eyecups etc. We should learn how to hold them. Have a look at Hold #2 at: http://binocularsky.com/binoc_hold.php. Fingers around eyecups give so many benefits regarding stray light, contrast, eye distance, and steadiness that translates to resolution. I venture that daytime with a small porro Hold #2 adds about $500 worth of optical benefit.


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