Amalia
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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I tried to learn from the last discussions.
The following is what I have found out until today.
This should become a general adviser for buying eyepieces.
May I ask you to criticize this? Tell me what is missing?
Thank you! 
Amalia
Looking for new eyepieces? 
I suggest you...
1. Get informed
Check Cloudy Night's reports, reviews and articles
Use CN's "search"-function
Use Google: Perform a search with the name of the eyepiece and "test" or "review".
Bookmark your results.
Be critical: The reviewers tell their own truth. Your eyes, your preferences
and your scope will probably be different. Don't believe everything.
2. Go to star parties, ask other astronomers if you can try out their eyepieces in your scope.
3. Ask the same at a local astronomy club.
4. Ask in an astronomy-shop if you can try 2, 3, 4 eyepieces over the weekend.
Make clear that you want to buy eyepieces. (Don't give them all back and buy the
eyepiece via internet, please...)
Try out the eyepieces together with a friend.
5. Driving to a really dark observation site is the best improvement of your astronomical system.
Expeditions are fun!
6. Worry about equipment less. Observe more. Enjoy the sky!
7. Are you an absolute beginner?
There are several "philosophies" about aquiring first eyepieces. Here some ideas:
#1 Use first the eyepieces that came with your scope. Get used to the hobby.
#2 Get the Celestron 1.25" eyepiece & filter kit for 136$. So you will start to
understand what eyepieces are about.
http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/accessories/kits_accessories.htm
Scroll down - I wouldn't go for the 2" eyepiece kit - as for this
money you can already get a real premium eyepiece.
#3 Buy quality eyepieces. Quality doesn't mean expensive. Good quality Plössls
or good quality orthos are not expensive. These simply build eyepieces are keepers,
even if you will continue to observe and you later will buy wideangle eyepieces.
Did you know: The only existing transmission test shows 97% transmission
reached only by a ....* - (and by two Zeiss orthos which also reach 97%).
(* Solution at the end of this text... ).
#4 A wide angle eyepiece does not mean "everything is better" - it just shows a wider field.
From my experience I can say that my orthos show me more details than my wideangles.
#5 Know that you will pay 200 - 300% more for a premium eyepiece - to get 10% more quality...
#6 Enjoy what you own. Never think: I would be happier with Pentax or Nagler.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder - not in the eyepieces. Enjoy the sky!
#7 Except for the mentioned kit - buy only one eyepiece at a time.
#8 Let the eyepiece be your teacher - each type of eyepiece will show you
the wonders of the sky in a different way. Empty your mind, open your eyes
and follow your new teacher.
#9 While testing use your brain, think about your new eyepiece.
Check different objects. Check difficult objects. Check the stars
at the border of the field of view. Check the darkness of the sky.
And:
Switch off your brain, listen to your heart, feel.
I think the feelings are more important.
#10 Dare to have your own opinion. Your very own opinion. You are unique.
#11 Ask us: Post your question here on CN - open a thread, which includes:
telescope(s) type
telescope(s) focal length
(maybe your future scope)
eyepieces already here or arriving with the scope
former experiences with EPs
need to wear eyeglasses
main celestial targets
planned budget
ideas or dreams about eyepieces
time of realization
#12 Don't forget the "experts of CN" are people like you and I -
normal people willing to help and share experiences.
Don't believe everything they say... 
A "thank you" is always appreciated!
Enjoy!
Amalia
* Solution: 97% transmission reached by the Televue Plössl 20mm!
Same transmission as the Zeiss orthos - amazing, isn't it? Its a high
quality simple design eyepiece!
Some useful links:
Jay Reynolds Freeman's Glossary For Telescope Buyers & Users
Best of the CN Beginner's Forum & How-Tos
An Essay on High Magnification
About Phil Harrington's book Stare Ware
CN Eyepiece Forum: Eyepiece Links of Interest
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Edited by Amalia (07/23/05 09:59 PM)
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square_peg
Postmaster
Reged: 03/26/04
Posts: 23989
Loc: Maple Valley, WA
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Amalia, that's good advice for anyone considering some new EP's. Especially #1, "Get informed"! 
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Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP 100 f/6 achro
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals
History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides
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Snow dog
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 1716
Loc: Alberta Canada
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that's about it in a nutshell. Being a green newbie myself I have been doing alot of question asking and getting lots of info from everyone. This is a great place to come to learn from people that have been playing in this hobby for a long time. Sometimes the responses have more info included that you can grasp at once, but the info is honest and at least for me nobody has said that "you must get this brand of equip or you will not be happy."
Like you said...use what comes with the scope first. Get used to the equipment and enjoy the hobby. Then decide what you want to do and go from there. I hope this helps people and esp the newbies to this.
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Marc
Someone get these crazy dogs off me
12" LX200 Classic
ETX-90PE
Meade DSI
Canon AE-1, EOS Rebel 350
My Home Page
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lynntx
sage
Reged: 03/25/04
Posts: 283
Loc: North Texas, USA
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I'm still not very experienced at this hobby. I think your list is pretty good advice.
After 1.5 years in this hobby, I still have not opted for any premium eyepieces.
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Texas, USA
*******************
Orion ST80
127mm F8 Burgess Refractor
8" F6 Dob
8X21, 8X30, 8X42, 7X50, 15X70 Binoculars
(Psalm 19:1)
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Philo
super member
Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 199
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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Philo, ke6cfy
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 11923
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Of course this is just fine and most complete. Might I suggest (without minding at all if the suggestion isn't taken) one additional guidance? To wit:
Don't worry too much about your eye pieces. Hobbiests tend to be perfectionists sometimes. You don't have to be. Everything will be OK.
(Unless, of course, you trip and fall into Lake Geneva holding onto a 12.2 kg box of eyepieces!).
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Amalia,
That is definitely the best, most concise yet complete, eyepiece advice post I've seen here yet. By far. The beauty of it as well is that most of the same steps and considerations can be applied to other questions like which telescope, which accessories, etc. Great job, you really have it together!
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wilash
Fairy Godmother
Reged: 09/30/03
Posts: 5746
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Quote:
#7 Except for the mentioned kit - buy only one eyepiece at a time.
Unless you have a binoviewer, then buy two. 
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Zeus
super member
Reged: 05/08/05
Posts: 108
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Thanks for the post Amalia! I think every newbie (like me) starts to understand more and more with posts like this. It really helps.
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Orion XT8 Intelliscope
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aporigine
sage
Reged: 07/03/05
Posts: 425
Loc: Tuolumne foothills CA
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Brilliant post, Amalia!
I have a small suggestion for point 1, regarding eyepiece reviews. To wit:
Do not be intimidated by the review you are reading. While the very best reviews contain excellent information, always be assured by three facts:
a) The reviewer is using eyes that are not mine.
b) The reviewer has observing habits and requirements that are probably not exactly like mine, now or in the future.
c) Reviewers are only human. By their nature, most reviews are not about what's good, but what is subjectively better than what else. For the vast majority of beginners, this can generate confusion or (worse) a bias toward a brand or type of eyepiece based solely on another's written word. Never mind what's better for now. It simply needs to be good.
d) Modern eyepieces that meet a few basic, easily-researched construction requirements (multi-coated? Not colored or cloudy? Elements made of glass? Barrels blackened inside?) are good. Very few exceptions to this rule, and those will "jump out" at someone who's done the homework and found the reviews. Avoid the obvious junk and you will be ok.
This can probably be shortened and written in plainer English. Please feel free to take what you like and edit it your way. What do you think over all?
cheers aporigine
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Mitrovarr
super member
Reged: 09/12/04
Posts: 189
Loc: Boise, Idaho
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I like it. I think it's important to tell beginners that those super-expensive eyepieces are only special in that they have wide fields, and aren't overwhelmingly better in other areas. Wide fields are nice, but I think most beginners are operating on too low of budgets to jump immediately to naglers and such (when I started out, I couldn't afford eyepieces period, which was a real shame considering I had those wretched huygens and ramsden nightmares. Parents, don't buy your kids department store telescopes.)
Also, you have to think of what that money could buy in other areas; two naglers would buy a 10" dob, which is probably a better instrument than the beginner is starting with in the first place. Alternately, you could get an entire set of ultima-clones, a low-end binoviewer and a couple pairs of GSO plossls, a 20x80 binocular and good mount, an ED80 and maybe a cheap tripod, a 2" SCT diagonal and a few 2" GSO widefields, a couple of Speers and the Speers zoom.... the list goes on for a while.
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rosecityred
sage
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Pacific Northwetest
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Amalia,
This is really excellent. You have expressed what a great deal of experience has taught you very elegantly and in a concise manner that should be very helpful to many people.
The only additional piece of advice I would offer to people just getting started would be to read something in 'layman's' language that explains what some of the technical terms they will encounter mean and how eyepieces work with a telescope -- such as the opening pages of Phil Harrington's chapter on eyepieces in "StarWare".
But I must say that your outline here is wonderfully thought out and beautifully expressed. And, in a second language for you no less!
Brava!!!
Julia
Edited by rosecityred (07/22/05 12:19 PM)
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grimupnorth
sage
Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Cambridge, UK
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. . . and the best thing about your great post, Amalia, is that it doesn't mention an eyepiece manufacturer by name (well, except for Zeiss & Televue, but you were only teasing us, eh?). I also liked a lot what aporigine and mitrovarr wrote.
Getting through your steps #1 to #10 would help a beginner like me to reach conclusions like:
'I can buy a mid-range mid-focal length Plossl and that will already be a great improvement on what I have now'
OR
'I see that what I really need is the planetary eyepiece that gives me the most detail & contrast that I can afford, now I need to see what fits my budget'
And this is really really helpful. With that sort of conclusion, a person can start to think about manufacturers and eyepiece designs, and will be able to ask questions here on CN that get really specific and useful answers.
Thank you! 
--------------------
Ian
200mm f5 EQ Newtonian, 60mm Refractor, 7x50 binos
A degree of fortitude & curiosity
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7445
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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Well said...
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Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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Jeremy@za
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 704
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa. 33 56...
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I vote for a sticky.
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oldsalt
Astro Philosopher
Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 7960
Loc: Pa - between starparties
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Very well put. Now the prospective ep buyer can make the subjective decission is this the right eyepiece for me, and do I really need to spend $200-300 for a good view of my subject.
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ForgottenMObject
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/11/04
Posts: 3585
Loc: Maryland, US
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Very nice!
About the only thing I would add is a note near the beginning of how to tell if your eyepieces are sub-par.
A few things come to mind:
- If you have 0.965" diameter eyepieces try to get an adaptor to use 1.25" diameter eyepieces (if possible) or find a source of good 0.965" diameter eyepieces (I don't know of one.) Most starter eyepieces in this size range are poor.
- Eyepieces of the Ramsden or Hyugen design are poor. These are often labeled "R", "SR", or "H" on the starter eyepieces.
- Eyepieces that are mostly plastic are probably very poor.
- Tiny eyepieces that provide more than 50x per inch of aperture are probably not very useful on any night.
I think the above advise (or something like it) if added in could make it clear to a newbie when their eyepieces are getting in the way of their viewing fun. They don't need Naglers, but I wouldn't wand them to stick with 4mm SR eyepieces, either!
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Matthew
IDA member
XT8i, 10x50 binoculars, lots of eyepieces
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CigTech
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/28/04
Posts: 1271
Loc: Largo, Fl
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Excellent Amalia, excellent. I think that this post needs to be a sticky post as well.
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Keep looking up,
CigTech
Orion AstroView 120mm
LXD55-Autostar Pier
Meade LPI
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LLEEGE
Running out of Oxygen
Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 6860
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
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Sounds like great advice.
THANKS
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AP900,LXD75
AP140EDF, TSA102, ZS80EDII
SN6-OTA, C8-OTA
Canon 20D, 350Hutech
PST, Lunt LD60T/DS (on order)
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 13930
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Perfectly good advice, and well laid out.
Some of us living in less populated areas might not have ready access to star parties or even walk-in astronomy shops though. But following the remaining advice will head off lots of mistakes.
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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