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pjglad
sage


Reged: 01/29/11

Millennium Star Atlas
      #5267781 - 06/12/12 09:59 AM

Is this atlas out of print? Based on forum posts it appears that there is considerable interest in this atlas.

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jrbarnett
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5267799 - 06/12/12 10:13 AM

Yes, it has been out of print for a few years.

Regards,

Jim


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Tony Flanders
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5267910 - 06/12/12 11:22 AM

Quote:

Is this atlas out of print?




Yes, and I think it's unlikely to be reprinted. The market for highly detailed atlases is modest, and it's probably shrinking rather than growing as planetarium software for computers and smart phones becomes more popular.

There has been some discussion about selling this in e-book form, which would require a much smaller investment than gearing up printing presses.

Tony Flanders
Associate Editor, Sky & Telescope


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okieav8r
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5268131 - 06/12/12 01:49 PM

I know that if it became available again, I'd be first in line to purchase it. I'd like to find a used hardback edition in good shape, but I'm not about to pay the outrageous prices that some knuckleheads are asking. I've seen some recent ads where people are asking inflated prices for SA2000 because they think it's out of print.

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The Ardent
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5268740 - 06/12/12 09:14 PM

I use a Millenium in the field. I like the look, layout, and depth. Here's what i want from a new edition:

Northern hemisphere edition goes to -60 dec only
Spiral bound
More overlap
More DSO's
Struve's labeled when possible

Or how bout an atlas of just stuff within 10 deg of the galactic equator? On the same scale as the Uranometria appendix charts.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: The Ardent]
      #5268805 - 06/12/12 09:58 PM

I don't think you're likely to get any of that, Ray.

There's still the Great Atlas of the Sky by Piotr Brych, though. That's a deeper atlas than the MSA, and has a lot more DSOs (alas, though, no dark nebulae). Agena Astro is the North American distributor.


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cliff mygatt
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Reged: 01/27/09

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5268838 - 06/12/12 10:22 PM

I found a used copy online for 399 and offered 199 and they accepted so if you want one you might look at Amazon!

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Tony Flanders
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: The Ardent]
      #5269076 - 06/13/12 06:12 AM

Quote:

I use a Millenium in the field. I like the look, layout, and depth. Here's what i want from a new edition:

Northern hemisphere edition goes to -60 dec only
Spiral bound
More overlap





Yikes, do you realize what a monster you have imagined? The Millennium Atlas is huge enough as it stands. Increasing the overlap significantly would probably increase the number of pages 50%. Spiral binding that much paper would be a nightmare; the pages would be ripping after a few nights of use unless they were made of ultraheavy stock, which would be bulky, heavy, and expensive.

And omitting the sky south of 60S would significantly reduce the atlas's appeal with barely any benefit. Less than 7% of the sky lies that far south, but it happens to be an extraordinarily important 7%.

Quote:

More DSO's, Struve's labeled when possible




That's one of the biggest obstacles. To really make Millennium worth republishing in a big way would require substantive changes, notably including all the stars in the Tycho2 catalog (roughly doubling the total) and making the DSO database more accurate and comprehensive. But those would require replotting all the pages from scratch and then proofreading them -- an overwhelmingly gigantic job. The cost would be prohibitive.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5269472 - 06/13/12 12:39 PM

There is one to sale on Ebay: 952$ Ouch !!!

web page


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5269893 - 06/13/12 04:41 PM

Quote:

Is this atlas out of print? Based on forum posts it appears that there is considerable interest in this atlas.



It's funny how interest (and price) spikes on things like this when they're no longer available.


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edwincjones
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5269991 - 06/13/12 05:53 PM

I have a copy that my kids gave me for father's day a few (many) years ago.
Very detailed, but way over my head; not used much.

edj


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5270188 - 06/13/12 08:01 PM

It's such a thing of beauty, though. It doesn't have to be particularly useful, it's worthwhile just to have it for its own sake.

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turtle86
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Reged: 10/09/06

Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5270337 - 06/13/12 10:03 PM

Quote:

It's such a thing of beauty, though. It doesn't have to be particularly useful, it's worthwhile just to have it for its own sake.




+1


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okieav8r
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: turtle86]
      #5270471 - 06/13/12 11:26 PM

+2

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Jeff Morgan
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5270872 - 06/14/12 09:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is this atlas out of print?




Yes, and I think it's unlikely to be reprinted. The market for highly detailed atlases is modest, and it's probably shrinking rather than growing as planetarium software for computers and smart phones becomes more popular.

There has been some discussion about selling this in e-book form, which would require a much smaller investment than gearing up printing presses.

Tony Flanders
Associate Editor, Sky & Telescope




That would make a lot more sense. I never made the jump to MSA, having stopped at U2000. That is as much bulk as I care to take out into the field. But the more I use SkySafari, the more I realize that as much as I love my my paper charts, they are obsolete.


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rmollise
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: okieav8r]
      #5270879 - 06/14/12 09:46 AM

It is a beautiful thing...the Physics Department where I teach astronomy has a copy. Never could bring myself to get one; I was afraid I would never use it. And I was probably right. I went "computer atlas" in the mid 90s starting with _Megastar_ and have never looked back.

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turtle86
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: rmollise]
      #5270935 - 06/14/12 10:24 AM

Quote:

It is a beautiful thing...the Physics Department where I teach astronomy has a copy. Never could bring myself to get one; I was afraid I would never use it. And I was probably right. I went "computer atlas" in the mid 90s starting with _Megastar_ and have never looked back.




For field use I find astro apps like Sky Safari on my iPhone handier than most paper atlases (the Pocket Sky Atlas is a notable exception), especially the seriously hefty ones like the Millennium Star Atlas. But for a bibliophile like myself at least, there really is a sheer joy to looking through the pages a beautiful atlas like the Millennium that no app can ever hope to match.


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BobinKy
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5271097 - 06/14/12 11:38 AM

Great atlas! I purchased one of the paperback versions from S&T a few years ago.

...Bob
Kentucky


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JimK
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Reged: 09/18/05

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5273547 - 06/15/12 08:39 PM

It is out of print, but even if it were reprinted I would not get it. *My* personal preference is to use the TRIATLAS made available for free by José Ramón Torres on his website (click here). He offers 5 versions/different sizes. And I'm sure that the Millennium Star Atlas is better in appearance, but I needed something for finding faint fuzzies in the field. The Pocket Sky Atlas/PSA (which I like for bright/easy stuff) and Uranometria (which didn't go deep enough and I gave away) just don't work for me and faint stuff.

The Millennium Star Atlas would also be unwieldy (big) for use, so I went with the TRIATLAS. The 25-page "A" series, printed on 11x17-inch paper (large labels and large sky areas), make my initial starhopping easier, and the 218-page "Intermediate B/C" series, printed on 8.5x11-inch paper and inserted into thin clear plastic page protectors (~$20) for finding faint stuff, seem to work for me. And I only need to take out the dozen or so B/C sheets of interest that night (the "A" series or PSA are always nearby). I even use a dry-erase marker on the protector sheets to circle/point-out what I'm looking for (in my 8-inch SCT).

So, the Millennium Star Atlas may be nice to look at, and perhaps is used in the field by some, but the TRIATLAS gives *me* the detail I need and allows me options of printing/using that the Millennium Star Atlas doesn't offer (even if it were available at a reasonable price). TRIATLAS is free and the binder of sheet protectors is very affordable by me. Computer software may also be nice, but print is my preference.


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HellsKitchen
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: JimK]
      #5275332 - 06/17/12 09:07 AM

I own both the Millenium Star Atlas and the entire C-series of the Tri-Atlas printed on A3 paper.

I actually use the MSA in the field and is very handy for star hopping, even if it is bulky and heavy. And after 10 years in the dew, it is no worse for wear, pages all intact, no issues with the binding, print still like new!

Edited by HellsKitchen (06/17/12 09:12 AM)


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JimK
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: HellsKitchen]
      #5275355 - 06/17/12 09:29 AM

Quote:

I own both the Millenium Star Atlas and the entire C-series of the Tri-Atlas printed on A3 paper.

I actually use the MSA in the field and is very handy for star hopping, even if it is bulky and heavy. And after 10 years in the dew, it is no worse for wear, pages all intact, no issues with the binding, print still like new!


Wonderful!

This is such an amazing hobby. There are many ways to approach it, many ways to make it more enjoyable. And despite some of the questions/topics about "the best", there's really is no single "best" optical device or accessory or technique or reference material. People can learn about what others may do or not do, but everyone can choose what works for them, given their eyeballs, budget, location, interests, etc.

We just need enough participants in this astronomy hobby so that there is sufficient demand for things like keeping the Millennium Star Atlas in print so that all who wish choose a particular option can do so. Sigh ...


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cliff mygatt
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: pjglad]
      #5277443 - 06/18/12 05:21 PM

There is a copy for sale on Amart just posted for $500. Maybe he can be talked down.

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The Ardent
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5279334 - 06/19/12 06:01 PM

I bought the Byrch Great Atlas last year and never used it.

My Millenium is no longder in collectible condition but thats ok, I use it in the field.


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DavidNealMinnick
sage
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: HellsKitchen]
      #5279819 - 06/19/12 10:54 PM

Quote:

And after 10 years in the dew, it is no worse for wear, pages all intact, no issues with the binding, print still like new!




My hardback copy is as you describe, my softback set has suffered binding failure, alas.


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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: DavidNealMinnick]
      #5295121 - 06/29/12 04:26 PM

This atlas was always too light on DSOs for scopes larger than 8", but is great in format and the number of stars.
Uranometria 2000.0 is FAR better on the number of DSOs, but is a little light on stars.
There was going to be a 6-volume atlas called the SkyGX from Christopher Watson:
Info Here that would have been the atlas we were all looking for--a ton of stars and enough DSOs for a lifetime, even with big scopes.
But it never made it into print.

As I see it:

Pocket Sky Atlas--great beginner's atlas for 4" up.

Sky Atlas 2000--great atlas for the 6-8" scope

Millenium Sky Atlas--the printed atlas for the 8" scope.

Uranometria 2000--THE atlas for 12-15"

And for the 16"+ scope in a dark site? Lots of good computer programs, but nothing at that level in print.

Of course, having a larger scope and using U2000 isn't a bad idea--it's just that you will continually find fields with 7 galaxies where U2000 shows 2 or 3.

So, for the big scope owner, there is always printing a page from a computer atlas to take to the field. YOU choose how deep the stars go, how many objects show up, and the scale. I've printed pages one degree on a side for some of the Hickson groups. The only rub is that it really requires a lot of planning before the observing session.


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edwincjones
Close Enough
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Starman1]
      #5295191 - 06/29/12 05:09 PM

do not forget Sky Map 600 for naked eye, binoculars, beginners

edj


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amicus sidera
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Starman1]
      #5299832 - 07/02/12 08:58 PM

Quote:

Don wrote:
(snip)

As I see it:

Pocket Sky Atlas--great beginner's atlas for 4" up.

Sky Atlas 2000--great atlas for the 6-8" scope

Millenium Sky Atlas--the printed atlas for the 8" scope.

Uranometria 2000--THE atlas for 12-15"

And for the 16"+ scope in a dark site? Lots of good computer programs, but nothing at that level in print.

(snip)




I concur with your choices, but an addition if I may: The Edmund Mag 6 Star Atlas.

Yes, it's dated, with 1950 coordinates and a layout that some dislike, but for those with instruments in the 4" to 8" aperture range, under light-polluted skies, it works well. Certainly a stepping-stone atlas, but I feel that it has its place.

Also agree that the Millennium Star Atlas is light on DSO's, which is why I never was much interested in it. Additionally, I find Uranometria to be quite useful when using instruments in the 6" to 8" aperture range at a dark site.


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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5299842 - 07/02/12 09:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Don wrote:
(snip)

As I see it:

Pocket Sky Atlas--great beginner's atlas for 4" up.

Sky Atlas 2000--great atlas for the 6-8" scope

Millenium Sky Atlas--the printed atlas for the 8" scope.

Uranometria 2000--THE atlas for 12-15"

And for the 16"+ scope in a dark site? Lots of good computer programs, but nothing at that level in print.

(snip)




I concur with your choices, but an addition if I may: The Edmund Mag 6 Star Atlas.

Yes, it's dated, with 1950 coordinates and a layout that some dislike, but for those with instruments in the 4" to 8" aperture range, under light-polluted skies, it works well. Certainly a stepping-stone atlas, but I feel that it has its place.



I agree. Virtually any atlas will do. I started with the Skalnate-Pleso Atlas Coeli of Becvar and it was great for my 4.25" reflector and 4" refractor. I thought the Pocket Sky Atlas was the modern equivalent, but there are many good choices in the low price points.
In fact, the best beginner's atlas I've seen is the magnitude seven atlas here on CN, and it's FREE!
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1052


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amicus sidera
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Starman1]
      #5299847 - 07/02/12 09:07 PM

Don, I have fond memories of using the Becvar atlas to steer an observatory-housed 16" reflector around in the late 70's and early 80's! It is indeed a classic.

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jrbarnett
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5300051 - 07/03/12 12:17 AM

I framed a bunch of the charts from the Skalnate Pleso atlas, and hung them in my office at work as "art". I have the Millenium Star Atlas, and the Herald-Bobroff, and Uranometria, and, and, and,...AND I like Uranometria best for 8" to 16" scopes, 16" being my biggest.

I find the Pocket Sky Atlas to be awkward when your constellation straddles widely different sections of the Atlas. I prefer Sky Atlas 2000 (all versions) over the Pocket unit as a result.

Oh, and Herald-Bobroff is a cool atlas, once you commit the elaborate iconography to memory. I'd rate it as a close second to Uranometria, and superior in some ways (by virtue of its plasticized pages and spiral binding).

Regards,

Jim


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Rich (RLTYS)
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5300185 - 07/03/12 06:06 AM

No one's mentioned "Norton's Star Atlas" a true classic.

Rich (RLTYS)


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amicus sidera
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5300567 - 07/03/12 12:13 PM

Good point, Rich! I think almost everyone who took up astronomy in the 50's and 60's had a copy of Norton's - undoubtedly a classic.

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blb
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5301041 - 07/03/12 06:06 PM

Quote:

Oh, and Herald-Bobroff is a cool atlas, once you commit the elaborate iconography to memory. I'd rate it as a close second to Uranometria, and superior in some ways (by virtue of its plasticized pages and spiral binding).




I agree that H-B is a really good atlas, but it is due to the iconography that I do not use the atlas in the field any more. Looking at symbols that do not represent the shape of the object and trying to see the gap or the tic mark in the symbol was just to much for me.

I much prefer Sky Atlas 2000 (all versions), and much better is Uranometria 2000, the 2nd edition.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: blb]
      #5301073 - 07/03/12 06:24 PM

Quote:


I agree that H-B is a really good atlas, but it is due to the iconography that I do not use the atlas in the field any more. Looking at symbols that do not represent the shape of the object and trying to see the gap or the tic mark in the symbol was just to much for me.

I much prefer Sky Atlas 2000 (all versions), and much better is Uranometria 2000, the 2nd edition.




Buddy,

Is there a big difference between the first and second edition of the Uranometria atlas ?

Thanks


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blb
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5301110 - 07/03/12 06:54 PM

Andre,
Others here are better at relating the differences between these two atlases. I have never owned the first edition so, although I have heard of some of the differences, I can't really describe them.


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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5301131 - 07/03/12 07:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I agree that H-B is a really good atlas, but it is due to the iconography that I do not use the atlas in the field any more. Looking at symbols that do not represent the shape of the object and trying to see the gap or the tic mark in the symbol was just to much for me.

I much prefer Sky Atlas 2000 (all versions), and much better is Uranometria 2000, the 2nd edition.




Buddy,

Is there a big difference between the first and second edition of the Uranometria atlas ?

Thanks



A huge difference.
1) More stars in 1st Ed.(though thousands were questionable in magnitude and location)
2) Many thousand (5000+) fewer DSOs in 1st Ed. (the Catalog had these objects listed as "in the field of")
3) More history of star atlases article in 1st Ed.
4) Transparent overlays were in both volumes in the 1st Ed. (only one set in the 2nd Ed.), though the transparent overlays are better in the 2nd Ed.
5) The BIG difference, though, was in the chart orientations. Instead of chart 10 going to chart 11 by turning the page in sequence, and having charts 11 and 12 continue across the page from left to right (with only one number instead of two), as is the case in the 2nd Ed., in the first edition the pages were arranged by RA, so when you went to the right of the page you were on, you continued on the left of the previous page, and so on. This made scanning across pages extremely difficult, and it made locating objects non-intuitive. Since each page was numbered, it meant roughly twice as many chart numbers to look up. I felt it was like reading in Hebrew--start in the back and work forward--not impossible, just not like any previous atlas.
6) The chart guide in the 2nd Ed. is right inside the cover. In the 1st Ed, it was 6+ pages inside the back cover, followed by a lot of blank white pages. Talk about inconvenient!
7) Each printing of the 1st Ed. had pages of error corrections in the back instead of merely correcting them on the pages. All these errors were corrected in the 2nd Ed.
8) The 3rd volume (the DSFG catalog) in the first edition had many more errors in it than in the 2nd Ed.

So, the 2nd Edition is:
--more accurate
--easier to use
--has more objects plotted
--has an easier-to-use index
--has better transparent overlays
--has a better index.
The second edition was created based on feedback from users of the first edition. If you ever plan to use it in the field, it is the version to get, and, anyway, it is the only version still in print.


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Pollux556
Pooh-Bah
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Starman1]
      #5301340 - 07/03/12 10:02 PM

Quote:


So, the 2nd Edition is:
--more accurate
--easier to use
--has more objects plotted
--has an easier-to-use index
--has better transparent overlays
--has a better index.
The second edition was created based on feedback from users of the first edition. If you ever plan to use it in the field, it is the version to get, and, anyway, it is the only version still in print.




Thank you very much for this valuable information Don.

It's right that the chapter called: " Uranography Yesterday and Today " is very very interesting.

So I have first Edition reprinted july 1991.

Edited by Pollux556 (07/03/12 10:04 PM)


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KidOrion
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Starman1]
      #5301744 - 07/04/12 04:22 AM

Quote:


A huge difference.
1) More stars in 1st Ed.(though thousands were questionable in magnitude and location)
2) Many thousand (5000+) fewer DSOs in 1st Ed. (the Catalog had these objects listed as "in the field of")
3) More history of star atlases article in 1st Ed.
4) Transparent overlays were in both volumes in the 1st Ed. (only one set in the 2nd Ed.), though the transparent overlays are better in the 2nd Ed.
5) The BIG difference, though, was in the chart orientations. Instead of chart 10 going to chart 11 by turning the page in sequence, and having charts 11 and 12 continue across the page from left to right (with only one number instead of two), as is the case in the 2nd Ed., in the first edition the pages were arranged by RA, so when you went to the right of the page you were on, you continued on the left of the previous page, and so on. This made scanning across pages extremely difficult, and it made locating objects non-intuitive. Since each page was numbered, it meant roughly twice as many chart numbers to look up. I felt it was like reading in Hebrew--start in the back and work forward--not impossible, just not like any previous atlas.
6) The chart guide in the 2nd Ed. is right inside the cover. In the 1st Ed, it was 6+ pages inside the back cover, followed by a lot of blank white pages. Talk about inconvenient!
7) Each printing of the 1st Ed. had pages of error corrections in the back instead of merely correcting them on the pages. All these errors were corrected in the 2nd Ed.
8) The 3rd volume (the DSFG catalog) in the first edition had many more errors in it than in the 2nd Ed.

So, the 2nd Edition is:
--more accurate
--easier to use
--has more objects plotted
--has an easier-to-use index
--has better transparent overlays
--has a better index.
The second edition was created based on feedback from users of the first edition. If you ever plan to use it in the field, it is the version to get, and, anyway, it is the only version still in print.




Also, the 2nd Ed. has galaxy orientations for all galaxies it shows, whereas the 1st Ed. only has them for very large (in angular size) galaxies.

One quibble I have with the 2nd Ed: the DSFG doesn't have additional names for planetary nebulae beyond the PK numbers. When they switched to PNG numbers for planetaries (I may be in the minority here, but I wish they'd stayed with the PK numbers where they were correct and/or given), the DSFG dropped all the Abell/Henize/Humason/etc.designations for planetaries and just included the PKs in the "other designation" category. So now, if I want to figure out which chart contains Minkowski 1-18, I have to either go straight to the Internet (not always possible for me), or use the 1st Ed. DSFG (or the Hynes book) to find the appropriate PK number, then use the 2nd Ed. DSFG to convert from PK to PNG.

If I wasn't such a Luddite, of course, I might have less of an issue with this.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: KidOrion]
      #5302471 - 07/04/12 03:31 PM

I prefer the "binned" stars of the 1st edition. The graded stars of the 2nd ed. tend to get lost on the page for me when it gets to the fainter stars. And I don't understand why 50,000 stars had to be purged from the 2nd ed. Couldn't the positions & magnitudes have just been corrected?

All in all, though, I think both editions are worth having. The 2nd ed. lives in my observatory.


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KidOrion
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5302548 - 07/04/12 04:07 PM

I also have both; the 1st Ed. goes into the field with me, while the 2nd stays at home as a reference.

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jrbarnett
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: KidOrion]
      #5302709 - 07/04/12 06:11 PM

Thou art a candidate for Sky Safari. Among other miracles, Sky Safari serves as an excellent cross-index between different catalogs for plotted objects.

- Jim


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5302928 - 07/04/12 09:21 PM

Quote:

I prefer the "binned" stars of the 1st edition. The graded stars of the 2nd ed. tend to get lost on the page for me when it gets to the fainter stars. And I don't understand why 50,000 stars had to be purged from the 2nd ed. Couldn't the positions & magnitudes have just been corrected?

All in all, though, I think both editions are worth having. The 2nd ed. lives in my observatory.




I too in this case I prefer the first edition, mostly I'm a stars observer. I like also to use GAOTS


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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5302992 - 07/04/12 10:17 PM

Star observers will like the Tri-Atlas of Torres: the 3 versions have magnitude limits of 9, 11, and 13.
A warning: that last one is 571 charts.


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Peter Natscher
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: JimK]
      #5303062 - 07/04/12 11:08 PM

I have looked at a download of the TRIATLAS and have carefully compared it to my Millennium Star Atlas. I find the TRIATLAS pages hard to read even in at my desk with too many object id's printed over the stars. The numerous object id's get in the way of discerning the star patterns to find an object if you are star hopping. The charts look too busy and complicated. The MSA looks less busy and easier to read, especially in the dark where I use this atlas. The one mag. gain doesn't matter much since those stars are too tiny to see on the page at night. I can't imagine using the TRIATLAS in the field at night with a red flashlight. I like my less confusing appearing Millennium Star Atlas better.

Quote:

It is out of print, but even if it were reprinted I would not get it. *My* personal preference is to use the TRIATLAS made available for free by José Ramón Torres on his website (click here). He offers 5 versions/different sizes. And I'm sure that the Millennium Star Atlas is better in appearance, but I needed something for finding faint fuzzies in the field. The Pocket Sky Atlas/PSA (which I like for bright/easy stuff) and Uranometria (which didn't go deep enough and I gave away) just don't work for me and faint stuff.

The Millennium Star Atlas would also be unwieldy (big) for use, so I went with the TRIATLAS. The 25-page "A" series, printed on 11x17-inch paper (large labels and large sky areas), make my initial starhopping easier, and the 218-page "Intermediate B/C" series, printed on 8.5x11-inch paper and inserted into thin clear plastic page protectors (~$20) for finding faint stuff, seem to work for me. And I only need to take out the dozen or so B/C sheets of interest that night (the "A" series or PSA are always nearby). I even use a dry-erase marker on the protector sheets to circle/point-out what I'm looking for (in my 8-inch SCT).

So, the Millennium Star Atlas may be nice to look at, and perhaps is used in the field by some, but the TRIATLAS gives *me* the detail I need and allows me options of printing/using that the Millennium Star Atlas doesn't offer (even if it were available at a reasonable price). TRIATLAS is free and the binder of sheet protectors is very affordable by me. Computer software may also be nice, but print is my preference.




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KidOrion
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5303073 - 07/04/12 11:15 PM

Jim--

I'd love to get Sky Safari. I just don't have the cash for an iPad or an iPhone. (I'll occasionally use the work iPad, but can't put any software on it.)


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Starman1]
      #5348316 - 08/02/12 08:25 AM

Quote:

Star observers will like the Tri-Atlas of Torres: the 3 versions have magnitude limits of 9, 11, and 13.
A warning: that last one is 571 charts.




I like paper atlas. I wondering how much should it cost to print the 571 charts


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5348765 - 08/02/12 01:48 PM

I like paper atlases as well. But am really enjoying having all of Jose Torres's TriAtlases on my IPAD. I printed to PDF each of the charts for all series (A, B, and C). My IPAD (1st generation) was opening up the group charts a tad to slow. Then there is the extra scrolling needed. And time for the IPAD to vectorize the chart. So now I have 703 charts plus the A Index chart loaded up on the IPAD.

It is real simple to use in the field. Slip the IPAD into the cover which has a red film over the opening. Open iBooks. Open up the A series Index. Determine which A series chart to start with. Open that A chart up. From there determine which B or C chart to open.

I wish I could have a server so as to load up all of these individual charts. It would save everyone the hours it took me to create the individual PDFs.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5349143 - 08/02/12 06:08 PM

Quote:

I like paper atlases as well. But am really enjoying having all of Jose Torres's TriAtlases on my IPAD. I printed to PDF each of the charts for all series (A, B, and C). My IPAD (1st generation) was opening up the group charts a tad to slow. Then there is the extra scrolling needed. And time for the IPAD to vectorize the chart. So now I have 703 charts plus the A Index chart loaded up on the IPAD.

It is real simple to use in the field. Slip the IPAD into the cover which has a red film over the opening. Open iBooks. Open up the A series Index. Determine which A series chart to start with. Open that A chart up. From there determine which B or C chart to open.

I wish I could have a server so as to load up all of these individual charts. It would save everyone the hours it took me to create the individual PDFs.




Nice idea. I wonder if it would be nicer on a kindle ? Is not ?


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5351244 - 08/04/12 04:22 AM

Don't have a Kindle so can't comment. I do think screen size is important though and the IPAD would then be the best choice.

Hopefully someone has a Kindle and can load up a group of charts and report back.


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drollere
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5357164 - 08/07/12 09:21 PM

Quote:

I framed a bunch of the charts from the Skalnate Pleso atlas, and hung them in my office at work as "art".




a friend suffered an observatory roof failure in a heavy rainstorm and his copy of the becvar was badly soaked and mildewed. he gave it up for lost. i caged it from him and salvaged 4 of the best pages, carefully mended some spots of mildew and foxing with reducing bleach, and had them framed. he chose two -- the orion taurus and the cassiopeia andromeda -- and i chose the cygnus lacerta and scorpius crux.

they are indeed works of art and, as hand cartography using printed references, robust works of science as well.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: drollere]
      #5360460 - 08/09/12 06:32 PM

When the MSA was in print, how much did it cost to purchase it? Was shipping extra? If so, how much was that?

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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5360819 - 08/09/12 10:35 PM

I bought the original hardcopy version at the intro price of (IIRC) $225. The full price was $250. I don't recall what the shipping was, but it wasn't anything outrageous.
I think the softcopy version went for $150.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5361050 - 08/10/12 02:24 AM

Thanks, I find it interesting that folks are willing to pay ~$350+ for it.

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rockethead26
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5361246 - 08/10/12 08:15 AM

Quote:

Thanks, I find it interesting that folks are willing to pay ~$350+ for it.




The heart wants what the heart wants.


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RodgerHouTex
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: rockethead26]
      #5361486 - 08/10/12 10:50 AM

But the head says, "Too expensive."

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Alvan Clark
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5361490 - 08/10/12 10:51 AM

Quote:

When the MSA was in print, how much did it cost to purchase it? Was shipping extra? If so, how much was that?




I got my softcover version for $95 from Amazon as pre-publication price.

I got my hardcover off Ebay. I paid something like $165 for a brand new copy. When I received it, it came shipped from Sky Publishing. I guess it was dropped shipped by the seller. The person's name and price he paid was on the invoice. Don't know how they got it for that price. Maybe if you're a licensed bookseller you can buy at a discount? He didn't make any money on my purchase.


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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #5361563 - 08/10/12 11:37 AM

When MSA was issued, I did not have the means to purchase but sure wanted one. I recently found one from and Amazon book seller listed for $400 but I ask if they would take $200, the original price when new and they accepted.

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RodgerHouTex
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5361573 - 08/10/12 11:43 AM

Nice!

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izar187
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5361823 - 08/10/12 02:15 PM

I did not have funds available for mine either. I saved up for months back then. Very glad I did. It was well worth the wait.

Some years later I did purchase all 3 of the second Uranometria. Again, very glad I did.

I agree with the assessment mentioned by others regarding atlases and aperture.
For a scope near the size of my 13", the second U2K is a better match for the deeper deep sky under darker darkness.
When the circumstances of darkness, dark adaptation and aperture all align, it is pretty amazing what can be seen thru the eyepiece (any type reasonably transparent eyepiece).
If one has detailed charting.


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turtle86
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: rockethead26]
      #5361826 - 08/10/12 02:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks, I find it interesting that folks are willing to pay ~$350+ for it.




The heart wants what the heart wants.




Yes. I paid about $300 for a like-new copy of the hardcover version, and have never regretted it. It is one beautiful atlas.


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turtle86
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5361833 - 08/10/12 02:19 PM

Quote:

But the head says, "Too expensive."




Someone on eBay is trying to sell a copy for $925. Both my head and heart say that at that price, that's just plain nuts.


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: turtle86]
      #5362119 - 08/10/12 05:20 PM

I came to know about the Millennium Star Atlas only about in 2007, when it was already out of print. Over the years I have collected URANOMETRIA 2nd Edition (All three volumes), got myself Herald-Bobroff AstroAtlas (original edition) and the Great Atlas Of The Sky. I do not think I really need MSA anymore. If anything else, it would just sit in my library as an "also have". No, I am not going to pay an outrageous price of $925. If the seller sells me a a price reasonably near the original purchase price (± $20), I might consider buying it but other than that, I do not really miss it that I pay close to 1K.

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turtle86
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rudra]
      #5362456 - 08/10/12 09:03 PM

Quote:

I came to know about the Millennium Star Atlas only about in 2007, when it was already out of print. Over the years I have collected URANOMETRIA 2nd Edition (All three volumes), got myself Herald-Bobroff AstroAtlas (original edition) and the Great Atlas Of The Sky. I do not think I really need MSA anymore. If anything else, it would just sit in my library as an "also have". No, I am not going to pay an outrageous price of $925. If the seller sells me a a price reasonably near the original purchase price (± $20), I might consider buying it but other than that, I do not really miss it that I pay close to 1K.




I agree. I have pretty much every atlas there is to have (just after ordering the Great Atlas at the discounted price), but even I have my limits.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: turtle86]
      #5363519 - 08/11/12 03:38 PM

Yeah. Just keep your eyes peeled, and eventually a copy will present itself at a good price. It's not a "must have", but it sure is a "nice to have".

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BPO
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5365304 - 08/12/12 07:44 PM

Quote:

Just keep your eyes peeled, and eventually a copy will present itself at a good price.




Rick, your optimism is truly heartwarming!


Quote:

It's not a "must have"...




My OCD and bibliomania disagrees!


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: BPO]
      #5365370 - 08/12/12 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's not a "must have"...




My OCD and bibliomania disagrees!




Yeah, mine too... just trying to make these poor unfortunate souls feel better about things...


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edwincjones
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5375973 - 08/19/12 01:36 PM

Astromart has a set today for $275 as opening bid



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edwincjones
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5376420 - 08/19/12 06:55 PM

it is < $925

edj


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edwincjones
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5382191 - 08/23/12 06:13 AM

4 days later,
no bids
2 days to go
we seem to be saying $275 is also too much

edj


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5382386 - 08/23/12 09:45 AM

Quote:

4 days later,
no bids
2 days to go
we seem to be saying $275 is also too much

edj


That is right. Even $275 is too much, when the original hardcover price was about a little more than $200, if I am correct. As someone rightly said in these forums, let the seller put any price, it is the buyer who decides the actual value.

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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5382969 - 08/23/12 02:56 PM

It's still a reasonable price, if it's the hardback edition (originally $250 IIRC). Someone will snarf it, and the rest of you will be kicking yourselves for waiting.
The overlays are very good to have as well, and if you can find a copy, the Celestia 2000 CD (data on every star in the book) will round out the set.


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383050 - 08/23/12 03:41 PM

I just checked and it looks like hardbound version complete with the "slide in" case. I had a look at the pages and to me it just looks like Uranometria 2K, an atlas that I already have. But where are those friends, who were looking for the MSA for so many years? There is still no bid on the auction.

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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5383158 - 08/23/12 04:56 PM

It's sort of like the U2K on steroids. Far more detailed stellar representation and information (4x the number of stars, down to mag 11), but fewer DSOs.

The MSA, particularly the hardback version, is a 100% class act all the way. No shortcuts anywhere; it's a real, genuine quality item. I've never regretted getting it for a second, nor its peripheral products (overlays, Celestia disc).

Knowing it as I do, and assuming it's in reasonably good shape, I personally would jump all over it at $275. That's only $25 more than the original price!

(But, keep in mind that I'm a bibliophile and I love printed atlases).


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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383180 - 08/23/12 05:09 PM

Hmm.
I have both, and I always thought the Uranometria was the MSA on steroids. Though MSA has more stars, it is very shy on DSOs.
U2000.0 is far better in that regards, with over 3X as many objects plotted.
Neither atlas, or course, can hold a candle to even a very basic computer program in terms of the number of stars or DSOs,
but, as a desk atlas, I was always disappointed in the small number of objects plotted in MSA--especially given the scale and number of stars plotted.


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edwincjones
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383189 - 08/23/12 05:11 PM

I will never get rid of mine-because my kids gave it to me as a
father's day gift, but I have not used it very much-just tooooo
many stars

edj


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5383215 - 08/23/12 05:23 PM

Quote:

Hmm.
I have both, and I always thought the Uranometria was the MSA on steroids. Though MSA has more stars, it is very shy on DSOs.
U2000.0 is far better in that regards, with over 3X as many objects plotted.
Neither atlas, or course, can hold a candle to even a very basic computer program in terms of the number of stars or DSOs,
but, as a desk atlas, I was always disappointed in the small number of objects plotted in MSA--especially given the scale and number of stars plotted.




Well, that's a valid viewpoint too. But in the printed atlas world, they're both very important works. I certainly don't have a bad word to say about the U2K (either edition). Each of them is what they are, and each has its strong points.

I would venture, though, that you're an exception in considering 10,000 DSOs to be a serious limitation. You're one of the *very* accomplished observers here; most of us (I think) will never see 10,000 DSOs!


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edwincjones
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383255 - 08/23/12 05:47 PM

"most of us (I think) will never see 10,000 DSOs"

in 16 years, I would estimate that I have seen 2000 DSOs

edj


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383284 - 08/23/12 06:05 PM

Quote:

It's sort of like the U2K on steroids. Far more detailed stellar representation and information (4x the number of stars, down to mag 11), but fewer DSOs.

The MSA, particularly the hardback version, is a 100% class act all the way. No shortcuts anywhere; it's a real, genuine quality item. I've never regretted getting it for a second, nor its peripheral products (overlays, Celestia disc).

Knowing it as I do, and assuming it's in reasonably good shape, I personally would jump all over it at $275. That's only $25 more than the original price!

(But, keep in mind that I'm a bibliophile and I love printed atlases).


So Rick you have a plan up your sleeve to make me poorer by $275 + shipping I am trying my best not to get tempted into buying it and now your post actually forces me to reconsider my stand.

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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5383285 - 08/23/12 06:05 PM

I think an atlas should have more objects in it than can be seen by your telescope.
After using an 8" scope for 11 years to sytematically "see every object that can be detected", I estimate an 8" can see detect about 15,000 DSOs in dark skies.
A 12.5" (my current scope) surely doubles that and more.

So, to have an atlas that contains all the objects possible viewable in your scope, MSA doesn't even meet the requirements of an 8" scope, while U2000.0 probably is just right for 12-14".
Larger scopes would need a larger scale atlas with a lot more objects.
I was SO looking forward to the SkyGX atlas, but the author couldn't find a publisher for a 6-volume atlas.

In today's world, any computer atlas exceeds what can be seen in any amateur scope, but then you have the hassle of dealing with a computer, power, and the light pollution from a computer screen in the field. I suppose you could print select pages and take them to the field with you, but that requires a lot of pre-planning and organization and suppresses spontaneity in the field.

No, a printed atlas in the field is a great thing. But it has to allow you to identify everything you can see. If it doesn't, well then, it's not a very good atlas, is it?


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383290 - 08/23/12 06:09 PM

The hardcover version of the Millennium Star Atlas is beautifully executed in every way. I wish it had the same number of DSO's as the second edition of Uranometria but must admit that 10,000 is amply sufficient for my purposes. One other big advantage of Uranometria is the Deep Sky Field Guide, a tremendous reference in its own right. As Rick said, they all have their different strong points...

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5383293 - 08/23/12 06:11 PM

Quote:

No, a printed atlas in the field is a great thing. But it has to allow you to identify everything you can see. If it doesn't, well then, it's not a very good atlas, is it?




It depends on what you want it to show you. In your case, I guess maybe it's not.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5383302 - 08/23/12 06:15 PM

Quote:

I just checked and it looks like hardbound version complete with the "slide in" case. I had a look at the pages and to me it just looks like Uranometria 2K, an atlas that I already have. But where are those friends, who were looking for the MSA for so many years? There is still no bid on the auction.




One reason it hasn't gotten any bids yet might be that it has a noticeable ding on one of the corners. That's no big deal, especially if it's going to be used in the field, and in any case $275 sure sounds like a great price for it. I'd buy it myself if I didn't already own a copy.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5383310 - 08/23/12 06:22 PM

Quote:

So Rick you have a plan up your sleeve to make me poorer by $275 + shipping I am trying my best not to get tempted into buying it and now your post actually forces me to reconsider my stand.




Use the Force, Luke!

No, seriously: It's a lot of money. Consider everything Don said; and think if this is something you really want. I'd hate to talk you into buying something that would end up being of no use to you. It's big and heavy, and probably won't see a lot of field use. At the desk, it's magnificent.
Also when you find something and want to pinpoint its position in the star field, it's great for ID purposes. There are a lot of objects not in the U2K; determining the exact position would help in identifying them.

And there's always the Great Atlas, with 70,000 DSOs and 2.4 million stars. You can still pick up one of those for $99.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383376 - 08/23/12 07:09 PM

And if you'd like free astronomy software with hundreds of thousands of deep-sky objects and up to 900 million stars, try Cartes du Ciel.
You can tailor the scale, the depth (of stars and DSOs), the colors, etc for your own purposes with your own scope.
You can also integrate it easily with picture catalogs like RealSky, etc.
I noticed recently that the DSO catalogs are more extensive than my old stand-by, Megastar.
This is what you get from professional astronomers with time on their hands.
CdC has the SAC database as one of their included lists of objects. Now THERE'S a list of 10,000 objects useful for the observer.
Did I mention it's free?


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5383409 - 08/23/12 07:30 PM

$275 + it does have an unmet reserve

edj


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383469 - 08/23/12 08:20 PM

Quote:

Knowing it as I do, and assuming it's in reasonably good shape, I personally would jump all over it at $275. That's only $25 more than the original price!




At $275, that auction still shows 'reserve not met'. I'd wager he's looking for considerably more than $275 whether it sells at auction or he sells it outright.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5383514 - 08/23/12 08:54 PM

Quote:

And if you'd like free astronomy software with hundreds of thousands of deep-sky objects and up to 900 million stars, try Cartes du Ciel.
You can tailor the scale, the depth (of stars and DSOs), the colors, etc for your own purposes with your own scope.




Nah, not for me. I have CduC on my laptop, but never use it. The only software I use is Mars Previewer II. That's a funny attitude for a guy who worked in computer system software for 30 years, I know; but, I yam what I yam.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5383583 - 08/23/12 09:43 PM

Quote:

Nah, not for me. I have CduC on my laptop, but never use it. The only software I use is Mars Previewer II.


I was just a little while ago, browsing through the computer atlas CduC after a long time and believe me, I do not think I will ever turn my back on the paper atlases. Now, CduC and Stellarium are completely fine computer atlases and planetarium softwares yet paper atlases have a "feel" that computer atlases lack, like touching the page, flipping maps back and forth.

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5384028 - 08/24/12 06:32 AM

Let me put this in historical perspective. Uranometria and the Millennium Star Atlas are very different indeed, for good reasons.

The Millennium Star Atlas is primarily an atlas of stars. It was originally conceived as the visual presentation of the data release from the Tycho satellite. As such it includes information such as distances, proper motion, and the position angles of double stars that are not normally shown in paper atlases.

Moreover, the treatment of the stars is very lavish compared to Uranometria. Not only does it show far more stars, it also shows them on a much larger scale.

Sky & Telescope enhanced the Millennium Atlas with deep-sky objects in order to make it more attractive to amateur astronomers. As far as the Tycho project was concerned, it would have been fine for it to have no DSOs at all.

Unfortunately, the DSO databases were in rather poor shape when Millennium was being prepared. After being plotted by computer, all the pages of Millennium were compared by hand to Digitized Sky Survey photos -- a vast job that nearly brought Sky to its knees. Huge numbers of errors were found and corrected, but Millennium still has plenty more errors of omission and comission.

The first edition of Uranometria suffered from the same problems with respect to DSOs, but DSO databases had improved greatly by the time the second edition was prepared, thanks to the work of the NGC/IC project and others. So not only does Uranometria II have more DSOs, its DSOs are much more reliable -- despite which it still has ample errors of omission and comission.

At the telescope, I find Uranometria inadequate to locate difficult objects because it shows so few stars. Put another way, it is inadequate to find the objects that it shows. Of course this is a non-issue if you have high-quality Go To that can place you within a few arcminutes of your target.

Millennium has just enough stars to be useful at the eyepiece of a telescope -- though 2 or 4 times the number would be a lot better! I rarely miss the faint galaxies that aren't plotted -- the galaxy databases are pretty good except with respect to position angle. But I fairly often miss the open clusters that aren't plotted -- and even more the ones that are plotted in the wrong position.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5384220 - 08/24/12 10:04 AM

Thanks for the explanation and background info. The difference in emphasis is well reflected in the titles of the works themselves: Millennium is a "Star Atlas" and Uranometria is a "Deep Sky Atlas."

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5384371 - 08/24/12 11:20 AM

This has been a very interesting and informative discussion and I really enjoyed the background history of the Mill & Uran Star Atlases.

I do deep sky work and I enjoy using the printed Uran Star Atlas (second edition) and CduC loaded with the UCAC3 & NOMAD star catalogs. Together these make a perfect pair and at a price that most of us can afford.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Edward E]
      #5384406 - 08/24/12 11:40 AM

Quote:

This has been a very interesting and informative discussion and I really enjoyed the background history of the Mill & Uran Star Atlases.






A thing I like from Uranometria is the interesting sky cartography story in the beginning of Vol. 1


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5384593 - 08/24/12 01:26 PM

Quote:

A thing I like from Uranometria is the interesting sky cartography story in the beginning of Vol. 1




Same here. I wish that had been included in volume 1 of the second edition as well. Fortunately, used copies of the first edition are readily available.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: turtle86]
      #5384745 - 08/24/12 03:07 PM

I wish we had an atlas same scale as the Uranometria A1 charts, with the double star ticks of Millenium.

Chart A14 centered on M11 is sweet.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5384833 - 08/24/12 04:04 PM

Quote:



At the telescope, I find Uranometria inadequate to locate difficult objects because it shows so few stars. Put another way, it is inadequate to find the objects that it shows. Of course this is a non-issue if you have high-quality Go To that can place you within a few arcminutes of your target.





I have found the same. Often, for faint objects, Uranometria is useful for getting me to the field (roughly), but I then must use printouts from software to find what I'm looking for. It is true that the stars charted in the atlas are inadequate for finding a great many (perhaps a majority) of the DSOs plotted.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: The Ardent]
      #5385025 - 08/24/12 06:18 PM

Quote:

I wish we had an atlas same scale as the Uranometria A1 charts, with the double star ticks of Millenium.

Chart A14 centered on M11 is sweet.



Indeed.
Currently, only computer star charts come up to that level.
The SkyGX atlas would have been "THE ONE", but Christopher Watson was never able to find a printer.

Here is what it would have been:
Based on the Hipparcos (http://astro.estec.esa.nl/Hipparcos/) and Tycho (http://www.astro.ku.dk/%7Eerik/Tycho-2/) observations, SkyGX is a set of 3,570 charts encompassing the entire sky to about magnitude 12.0. With completeness to approximately 99% at magnitude 11.0 and 90% at magnitude 11.5—more than 2 million stars—it sets a new standard for printed star atlases. Smaller fields and greater chart scale, coupled with the use of the latest combined and revised stellar and deep-sky catalogues, has made it possible to show the whole sky with far greater veracity and uniformity than any previous printed all-sky atlas. Nearly 60,000 galaxies with visually verified aspect ratio and orientation are displayed, along with 25,000 other non-stellar objects taken from the most up-to-date and accurate datasets available.

If you'd like to go to the trouble of printing it, there're 3 deep ones at:
http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/triatlas.html
If you had a local printer print it and bind it, it would be expensive, but it would be the most extensive atlas ever printed.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5385446 - 08/24/12 10:55 PM

I would've bought the SkyGx in a heartbeat had it ever gotten printed. Here's a link to one of the sample pages:

http://web.archive.org/web/20061102105246/http://www.skygx.com/docs/proto/GX05-2470.pdf

At least the Great Atlas of the Sky got published (but now being discontinued) and has comparable specs: 2,430,768 stars up to mag 12 in addition to over 70,000 galaxies, clusters and nebulae.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5385535 - 08/24/12 11:50 PM

Tony...

Thank you for your comments in this discussion.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5385736 - 08/25/12 03:08 AM

Quote:

After being plotted by computer, all the pages of Millennium were compared by hand to Digitized Sky Survey photos -- a vast job that nearly brought Sky to its knees.




You guys on your knees are better than any of your competition in full stride.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5385739 - 08/25/12 03:10 AM

Quote:

The SkyGX atlas would have been "THE ONE", but Christopher Watson was never able to find a printer.




Do you know, is that a dead issue now, or is there still a ghost of a chance a publisher will appear? Is Christopher still looking? I'd buy it too, no question.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5399628 - 09/02/12 01:10 PM

Great explanation.

Since I am only interested in DSO, I would not have a need for the Millenium Star Atlas, but have ordered $99 great star atlas insteas (& have Unametria already which I primarily use the blow up appendix charts).


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5399711 - 09/02/12 02:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The SkyGX atlas would have been "THE ONE", but Christopher Watson was never able to find a printer.




Do you know, is that a dead issue now, or is there still a ghost of a chance a publisher will appear? Is Christopher still looking? I'd buy it too, no question.



I think it's dead.
But,it would also be OK to obtain it in a "large size" pdf version that you could print yourself.
I inquired recently how much it would cost to print the "C" atlas of Torres (571 charts), double-sided, and bind it, and it was only $120.
Now, that was 8.5x11", so that price would be more if the charts were larger, say 12.75X16.5".
[8.5"x11" charts to magnitude 13 are a little, uh, crowded. Also, a comparison with Uranometria showed U2000 had some objects not in Torres' atlas, and vice-versa. It's really hard to beat U2000 unless you print a computerized star atlas.]


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5399983 - 09/02/12 05:52 PM

Quote:


It's really hard to beat U2000 unless you print a computerized star atlas.





I agree. As a print format, the 3-volume U2000 (2nd ed.) is pretty hard to beat in the field. On the other hand, in the digital format, SkyTools 3 is hard to beat at the desk.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5399993 - 09/02/12 06:01 PM

Bob,
You'd also like Deep-Sky Planner 5. Same idea.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5400510 - 09/03/12 02:26 AM

The Millennium Star Atlas on auction at the other web site, did not find any takers. Does this mean that interested parties are no going to pay exorbitant amount for the out of print books? Perhaps yes, as over the years other paper and software atlases have filled the void left behind by the MSA. I think it is a good sign that people are not running over each other for the MSA and that the sellers should realize that selling out of print books for "profit" is not a profitable proposition anymore. Perhaps they should sell the book either at the original MSRP or less than that, they will find someone willing to purchase them.

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5400527 - 09/03/12 03:00 AM

Ahh, this is the free market, my lad! They'll charge what the market will bear. Is this the $900 copy your talking about? Nobody in their right mind would pay that unless they just had stupid amounts of cash laying around. It's not *that* good! But it's well worth the original price, or maybe a bit more.
And, if someone does have that stupid money laying around, then good for the seller and the buyer!

I'm a confirmed bibliophile and atlas lover; but I'd choke on paying $900 for an atlas!

Edit: I'd rethink that position if the SkyGX were published. I think I'd scare up the money somehow. I'm glad my wife isn't watching me type this.

Edited by Rick Woods (09/03/12 03:02 AM)


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5400903 - 09/03/12 11:24 AM

Rick I am talking about the auction on AM site, where the start price was put at $275. I am sure no one bid for it and the auction ended without a bid.

Quote:

Edit: I'd rethink that position if the SkyGX were published. I think I'd scare up the money somehow. I'm glad my wife isn't watching me type this.




Same here Rick. That is why for the last few months I have been getting my books delivered to my office address (I do not want to face fury at home after a long day at work )and then I quietly sneak the books in my home. I think SkyGX would be worth every penny spent on it and I no doubt would loosen my purse strings to buy it, whatever the price!


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5401156 - 09/03/12 02:08 PM

Quote:

Rick I am talking about the auction on AM site, where the start price was put at $275. I am sure no one bid for it and the auction ended without a bid.




That's kind of strange; if it's a hardcopy edition, that's only slightly more than the original price. If it's in good shape, it'd be a great buy. Maybe the seller has a suspicious past or something? I don't go to AM, so I don't know.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5401896 - 09/03/12 09:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Rick I am talking about the auction on AM site, where the start price was put at $275. I am sure no one bid for it and the auction ended without a bid.




That's kind of strange; if it's a hardcopy edition, that's only slightly more than the original price. If it's in good shape, it'd be a great buy. Maybe the seller has a suspicious past or something? I don't go to AM, so I don't know.




It's a hard copy. One book has a dented corner web page
Full adds


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5402183 - 09/04/12 12:24 AM

That's not much of a ding.
Somebody who has been pining about them being out of print ought to jump on this. Sure beats $900.


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5402527 - 09/04/12 08:58 AM

Quote:

That's not much of a ding.
Somebody who has been pining about them being out of print ought to jump on this. Sure beats $900.




+1


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5403040 - 09/04/12 01:47 PM

Quote:

That's not much of a ding.
Somebody who has been pining about them being out of print ought to jump on this. Sure beats $900.




Yeah, but what did he really want for it? During the entire auction, it showed $275 as the minimum bid, and also showed that the reserve had not been met. Believe me, if I could have gotten that set for $275, I'd have walked over my own mother to do it!


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: okieav8r]
      #5404558 - 09/05/12 09:42 AM

Make him the offer for $275. You never know, and it doesn't hurt to ask...

Chris


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Ragaisis]
      #5405766 - 09/05/12 11:22 PM

FWIW:

I just compared the Double Cluster on the MSA and the Great Atlas of the Sky. The GA showed more field stars; but the clusters themselves were presented better, and with more distinguishable discrete stars, on the MSA.

So see? You have to have both!

One word of warning about the hardcover MSA: Don't try to pull out a volume from the slip case by hooking your finger in the top of the book. You'll rip the paper on the binding edge. Always pull all 3 volumes part-way out by gripping the whole set, then push the ones you don't want back in.
I put a tiny tear in one volume of mine before I figured this out. It was a true brain fart, and most people probably would be smarter than to do it. But I wasn't; so there it is, for you brain-farters out there.

Somebody, buy that set. It's calling your name...


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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5406571 - 09/06/12 01:35 PM

Rick, how do MSA and H-B Astro Atlas compare with each other at the same region?

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5406608 - 09/06/12 01:52 PM

Rick, you've nowgot me getting impatient about the arrival of my copy of the Great Atlas of the Sky. It'll be great fun comparing the two atlases like that. I'm guessing that in general MSA will do a better job on stars and GA will be better for DSO's, at least in terms of sheer numbers. Don't ever see taking them outside, though--they're both too big and now OOP to boot.

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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5406721 - 09/06/12 02:59 PM

Quote:

Rick, how do MSA and H-B Astro Atlas compare with each other at the same region?




I'm looking at them now. The H-B Atlas (looking at chart C-19) has the Double Cluster. It's very crowded and cluttered, and it's difficult to distinguish one cluster from the other. The MSA is very clear and precise, with each star in each cluster individually shown down to an amazing level.

But, the MSA puts one degree of dec in a larger area than the H-B uses for 3 degrees; likewise, the space used for 6 minutes of RA is the same that the H-B uses for 20 minutes. Clutter is inevitable on the H-B, it's all so packed together.
Even H-B chart D-27, which is a closeup of the same area, doesn't have anywhere near the detail of the MSA.

The MSA and the GA are much closer to the same scale. The H-B is denser and smaller scale than even the U2000.


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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: turtle86]
      #5406734 - 09/06/12 03:06 PM

Quote:

Don't ever see taking them outside, though--they're both too big and now OOP to boot.




That's for sure! Be prepared - the GA is huge! Finding a place to put it may be a problem.
That's one area where the U2000 has them all beat. A reasonable amount of everything, in a managable sized package.


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turtle86
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5406826 - 09/06/12 03:59 PM

It sure looks immense from the pics I've seen. Not sure where I'm going to put it just yet (I have way too many books!) but I figure that's a good problem to have.

I find the U2000 very manageable for field use. When I go to my dark site, I usually tote it along with NSOG in a plastic bin, my portable astro library.


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: turtle86]
      #5406898 - 09/06/12 04:58 PM

Rick, thank you very much. I will look out for a [Hard Cover] copy of the MSA. If the copy is in pristine condition, a buying price of US$275 tops.

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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5407474 - 09/06/12 11:14 PM

Rob,
The one DSO the great atlas does not do well is dark nebulae. Other than that it is great but pretty big for field use.


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GDN
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5407581 - 09/07/12 12:27 AM

Quote:

Rob,
The one DSO the great atlas does not do well is dark nebulae. Other than that it is great but pretty big for field use.




That's where the Barnard Atlas makes a fine companion.

The plates show many Dark Nebulae that Barnard never catalogued. Some are outlined, just not listed or give numbers.

Cheers,

Jerry

G.O.Dobek, FRAS


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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: GDN]
      #5407924 - 09/07/12 09:20 AM

I would agree with you Jerry but the second edition Uranometria does a great job with Dark nebulae and is easier used in the field. Barnards atlas is what I used with the Uranometria while at the EP.

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turtle86
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5408638 - 09/07/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

Rob,
The one DSO the great atlas does not do well is dark nebulae. Other than that it is great but pretty big for field use.




Thanks for the info. Uranometria does a fine job with dark nebulae plus it looks to be much more friendly for field use. I'll have to clear off our dining table just to use the Great Atlas at home.


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HellsKitchen
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5413037 - 09/10/12 10:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Star observers will like the Tri-Atlas of Torres: the 3 versions have magnitude limits of 9, 11, and 13.
A warning: that last one is 571 charts.




I like paper atlas. I wondering how much should it cost to print the 571 charts




I bought the entire C-series from a fellow observer printed on heavy A3 paper for $70.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5460515 - 10/08/12 12:11 PM

Quote:

Indeed.
Currently, only computer star charts come up to that level.
The SkyGX atlas would have been "THE ONE", but Christopher Watson was never able to find a printer.

Here is what it would have been:
Based on the Hipparcos (http://astro.estec.esa.nl/Hipparcos/) and Tycho (http://www.astro.ku.dk/%7Eerik/Tycho-2/) observations, SkyGX is a set of 3,570 charts encompassing the entire sky to about magnitude 12.0. With completeness to approximately 99% at magnitude 11.0 and 90% at magnitude 11.5—more than 2 million stars—it sets a new standard for printed star atlases. Smaller fields and greater chart scale, coupled with the use of the latest combined and revised stellar and deep-sky catalogues, has made it possible to show the whole sky with far greater veracity and uniformity than any previous printed all-sky atlas. Nearly 60,000 galaxies with visually verified aspect ratio and orientation are displayed, along with 25,000 other non-stellar objects taken from the most up-to-date and accurate datasets available.





Don, I would like to inquire if Christopher would be willing to allow us to obtain a PDF for each chart. How do I reach him?


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Ragaisis]
      #5460523 - 10/08/12 12:15 PM

Quote:

Make him the offer for $275. You never know, and it doesn't hurt to ask...

Chris




I did just that after I noticed he lives less than 20 miles from me. The atlas is as described. Glad I was able to pick it up for $275.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5460554 - 10/08/12 12:27 PM

Quote:



I did just that after I noticed he lives less than 20 miles from me. The atlas is as described. Glad I was able to pick it up for $275.




Nice catch, congrat !


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Starman1
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5460562 - 10/08/12 12:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Indeed.
Currently, only computer star charts come up to that level.
The SkyGX atlas would have been "THE ONE", but Christopher Watson was never able to find a printer.

Here is what it would have been:
Based on the Hipparcos (http://astro.estec.esa.nl/Hipparcos/) and Tycho (http://www.astro.ku.dk/%7Eerik/Tycho-2/) observations, SkyGX is a set of 3,570 charts encompassing the entire sky to about magnitude 12.0. With completeness to approximately 99% at magnitude 11.0 and 90% at magnitude 11.5—more than 2 million stars—it sets a new standard for printed star atlases. Smaller fields and greater chart scale, coupled with the use of the latest combined and revised stellar and deep-sky catalogues, has made it possible to show the whole sky with far greater veracity and uniformity than any previous printed all-sky atlas. Nearly 60,000 galaxies with visually verified aspect ratio and orientation are displayed, along with 25,000 other non-stellar objects taken from the most up-to-date and accurate datasets available.





Don, I would like to inquire if Christopher would be willing to allow us to obtain a PDF for each chart. How do I reach him?



This is a thread here on CN:
SkyGX
I sent him some emails several years ago, but I no longer have that computer or the email address. Sorry.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Starman1]
      #5460648 - 10/08/12 01:21 PM

Quote:


This is a thread here on CN:
SkyGX
I sent him some emails several years ago, but I no longer have that computer or the email address. Sorry.




Thanks, I will try to reach him.


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Rudra
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5460768 - 10/08/12 02:38 PM

Quote:


I did just that after I noticed he lives less than 20 miles from me. The atlas is as described. Glad I was able to pick it up for $275.


I am glad that you were able to procure the MSA. I am happy to learn that gradually owners are slowly realizing that they cannot quote exorbitant prices of "out of print" books and make money, especially in a field like amateur astronomy. If they can get to sell at the price for what they bought it for originally, they should feel happy about it.

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Rick Woods
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rudra]
      #5460951 - 10/08/12 04:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I did just that after I noticed he lives less than 20 miles from me. The atlas is as described. Glad I was able to pick it up for $275.


I am glad that you were able to procure the MSA. I am happy to learn that gradually owners are slowly realizing that they cannot quote exorbitant prices of "out of print" books and make money, especially in a field like amateur astronomy. If they can get to sell at the price for what they bought it for originally, they should feel happy about it.




I don't necessarily agree with that, at least the last part.

When the big 3-volume Becvar atlas was in print, it went for something like $15. Long after it went out of print, I bought a copy for $200 and was glad to get it. Times and prices change; someone selling something no longer available is entitled to get whatever they can for it. Remember, we all had the chance to buy them new for much less when they were still in print. You snooze, you lose.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'd pay $900 bucks for an MSA! But that's my choice; someone with more money might be glad to buy it, and both parties would walk away happy.

It's a free market, and the market will set the price. And I'm glad, too, that the price the market set for this one was reasonable.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5461176 - 10/08/12 07:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:


This is a thread here on CN:
SkyGX
I sent him some emails several years ago, but I no longer have that computer or the email address. Sorry.




Thanks, I will try to reach him.




I can bring up that thread but it will not let me click on his nickname to bring up his profile (which should allow me to send him a PM).

It says I need to log in, and when I do it says it can't find the username/password (mine). Weird.

Not sure what is wrong or what to do next.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5461293 - 10/08/12 09:23 PM

Quote:

[
It's a free market, and the market will set the price. And I'm glad, too, that the price the market set for this one was reasonable.




One day we will see the Great Atlas of the Sky at 200$, 300$ or 500$ and we will say: « Hey! it was at 99$ in autumn 2012 ! »


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5461334 - 10/08/12 09:59 PM

Perhaps so. My only hesitation of believing that could happen is how fast computers and tablets are taking over.

Plus I am starting to wonder just how many more atlases are available before the inventory runs out.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5461339 - 10/08/12 10:02 PM

Quote:


Plus I am starting to wonder just how many more atlases are available before the inventory runs out.




Piotr Brytch is selling is last copy.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5461362 - 10/08/12 10:17 PM

Really? Where did you learn that?

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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5461745 - 10/09/12 08:41 AM

At the same place as you. I also know exactly how many GAOTS was sold but since you know all that, please ignore my post.


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Undermidnight
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5461781 - 10/09/12 09:23 AM

Someday I want to pick up the MSA for my collection.

Jason


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5461787 - 10/09/12 09:30 AM

Quote:

At the same place as you. I also know exactly how many GAOTS was sold but since you know all that, please ignore my post.





I don't know "exactly" how many GAOTS have been sold and I can't say for sure "exactly" how many GAOTS were available for purchase.

It was a simple question really - how do you know he is selling his last copy?

<sigh> that's okay if you don't want to answer the question it's not that important.


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Pollux556
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5462033 - 10/09/12 12:29 PM

My apologies to all of you friends. It seems that I confused this thread writing "the last copy" instead of "last copies" despite to share with you with effort in english that is not my native language. May be it's time for me to switch in silent mode continuing to read your interesting post.

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Undermidnight
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Pollux556]
      #5462068 - 10/09/12 12:54 PM

Andre,

Your english is much better than my french!! You are doing fine. I think sometimes we forget that english is not a primary language to some on Cloudy Nights.

Please keep posting!

Jason

Edited by Undermidnight (10/09/12 12:55 PM)


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Undermidnight]
      #5462074 - 10/09/12 12:56 PM

Hey, no problem. You got my hopes up that the sale was coming close to the end. I do hope that those who want the atlas do go ahead and plop down $99 for it. It's worth every penny.

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operascope
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5463190 - 10/10/12 12:48 AM

My copy ordered July 31, shipped Aug 28, and arrived today, Oct. 8. Very nice, and well packed.

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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: operascope]
      #5466838 - 10/12/12 12:35 PM

I just put my soft bound copy of the MSA up for sale on AM, if anyone is interested, $215 with shipping. I find I am not using it and want to sell to someone who will.

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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5466891 - 10/12/12 01:03 PM

That should go real fast.

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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5467076 - 10/12/12 04:48 PM

No bites yet but I am sure as the weekend roles around it will sell.

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okieav8r
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5467469 - 10/12/12 10:04 PM

Quote:

No bites yet but I am sure as the weekend roles around it will sell.




There is also a 'wanted' ad on AM for a Millenium atlas.


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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: okieav8r]
      #5467494 - 10/12/12 10:32 PM

I don't see your ad at AstroMart. Was going to send the link to a friend. Can you post it here?

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Dave Ittner
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5467497 - 10/12/12 10:34 PM

nevermind, it helps to spell Millennium properly

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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: Dave Ittner]
      #5467589 - 10/13/12 12:24 AM

The wanted is for a hard bound copy!

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okieav8r
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5467602 - 10/13/12 12:38 AM

Quote:

The wanted is for a hard bound copy!




Cliff, I don't see any mention in that ad saying he's looking for a hardbound copy. Did he say so in an e-mail?


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ScumotheUniverse
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5468185 - 10/13/12 12:02 PM

Quote:

I just put my soft bound copy of the MSA up for sale on AM, if anyone is interested, $215 with shipping. I find I am not using it and want to sell to someone who will.




I have the hard bound edition and have used it maybe twice since my generous wife purchased it for me as a gift some years ago. It is wonderful as an anchor at the bottom of my book shelf. The volumes are just to cumbersome to remove from their covers. How much is the hard cover edition worth today?

I haven't renewed my "subscriptiion" to AM and don't plan on it. There should be an uptick in traffic to the CN classifieds I am sure. Maybe I will list them for sale there.


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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: ScumotheUniverse]
      #5468295 - 10/13/12 01:00 PM

Yes in an email he said hard bound.

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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5468434 - 10/13/12 02:38 PM

If anyone here wants my soft bound copy let me know! It is ready to ship! $215 shipped to CONUS.

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cliff mygatt
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Re: Millennium Star Atlas-now on AM new [Re: cliff mygatt]
      #5469258 - 10/14/12 02:36 AM

I sold it!

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