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star drop
Snowed In
   
Reged: 02/02/08
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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Color in the Triffid Nebula
#5270785 - 06/14/12 08:16 AM
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Last night we had good transparency and fair seeing, an unusual combination for my location. When looking at the Triffid Nebula (around midnight in magnitude ~6 skies using a 25" f/5, Paracorr type I, and 20mm ES100 = 181x) I noticed that all of it had a very faint bluish tint with perhaps a hint of red near the outside of one of the dust lanes. Does anyone have a blue only image that I could compare my views with? I had spent much of the day outside in bright sunlight without sun glasses so my dark adaptation was not as good as it could have been. In the past I have found that observing the Orion Nebula in twilight and with less than dark adapted eyes has made it easier to see color in it.
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hbanich
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/17/05
Loc: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: star drop]
#5271267 - 06/14/12 01:22 PM
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I've seen a very unsaturated red-ish hue in the Trifid on several occasions using a 28 inch f/4, but the blue reflection nebula area immedialtey to its north has always appeared at best as a cool-ish light gray. But then our eyes probably respond to low level light and color differently.
I'm not sure what a blue only image will show you unless your eyes respond to red poorly.
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blb
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/25/05
Loc: Piedmont NC
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: hbanich]
#5271381 - 06/14/12 02:39 PM
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Wow guy's, I have never seen any color in the Triffid or the Lagoon Nebula with my 10-inch reflector.
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ensign
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/16/08
Loc: Southwestern Ontario
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: blb]
#5271518 - 06/14/12 04:10 PM
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Wow guy's, I have never seen any color in the Triffid or the Lagoon Nebula with my 10-inch reflector.
They're both very red in the Mallincam.
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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/18/08
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: ensign]
#5271668 - 06/14/12 05:44 PM
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The surface brightness of even the brightest portion of the Trifid is probably not high enough to elicit a color response, no matter the aperture. (Recall that a telescope can never deliver surface brightness higher than seen with smaller instruments or even the eye alone; bigger scopes merely allow a bigger and more detailed image.)
I really do suspect that reports of color in faint-ish nebulae to be illusory, quite possibly influenced by familiarity with photographic appearances. I wonder what observers perceived through even really big scopes before the advent of color photography? I'd guess a colorless grey for the most part.
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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/18/08
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5271675 - 06/14/12 05:46 PM
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I should add that if one took a trip to the Trifid, from even close up the surface brightness would be the same as seen from here on Earth. And so it would be no easier to perceive color even then.
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hbanich
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/17/05
Loc: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5271843 - 06/14/12 07:56 PM
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Hi Glenn,
I haven't made a trip to the Trifid (too bad, that would be cool!) but I have seen a subtle red-ish hue in it several times. It definitely helped to know which part was red and which was blue from photographs because the color is so subtle, I wouldn’t have noticed it if I wasn’t looking for it.
In general, my experience with observing with vastly different size telescopes have shown me that the bigger the scope the more obvious color becomes, and that previously unnoticed color become noticeable in the larger scopes.
The first object that comes to mind is Saturn. In scopes up to about 12 inches the globe and rings have always been a lovely shade of light yellow. In 20 inch up to 40 inch scopes I've seen the B ring look brilliantly white and the C ring a brown-ish charcoal color. The globe starts to show subtle pastel colors in its bands. In the 90 inch Bok telescope on Kitt peak the globe is a riot of more saturated and much more obvious pastel colors – it looks like an Easter egg.
Another memorable example is M13. I’ve never seen any difference in the star color in M13 until I looked at it through the 90 inch, when sprinkled about the cluster where many handfuls of distinctly red, yellow and blue stars – it was a gorgeous sight!
The nebulosity in the Trapezium area of M42 also has a different color in the 90 inch than I’ve seen in smaller scopes. In the 90 inch it has a deeply saturated turquoise color, but in smaller scopes it’s always been a significantly lighter shade of green. Also, the E star is quite red in the 90 inch.
I’ve had similar experiences with color in viewing with 8 inch to 40 inch scopes, so at least for me – and I know my eyes are nothing special – aperture does make a difference in color perception.
This ties in with my experience with image brightness. Bigger telescopes always show an object as brighter and makes previously too faint to see details or objects visible. I’ve certainly fooled myself a few times in what I’ve seen, but the above is a consistent, non-variable experience.
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timokarhula
sage
Reged: 01/30/06
Loc: Sweden
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: hbanich]
#5272307 - 06/15/12 05:56 AM
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I have once noted color in the Milky Way as seen with naked eyes. After waking up (nature was calling :-) in a tent high up in the Peruvian Andes, 3720 metres, I swear I could distinguish yellowish star-clouds amongst the dark nebulae. I do not remember for how long the color-perception persisted, since my eyes were fully dilated and perfectly dark-adapted but were probably "saturated" after being exposed to the night sky. The ZLM was better than 7.5 and the sky was peppered with stars. Normally, the Milky Way has not shown any color to me since then even when I have been observing all night long in similar exceptional conditions, but at lower elevations. After all, isn't the integrated color of the Milky Way about the same as that of the sun, yellowish?
/Timo Karhula
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azure1961p
Postmaster
   
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: timokarhula]
#5272343 - 06/15/12 07:01 AM
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In my experience red is merely a contrast effect of seeing the typical green that emission nebula often reveal. Same way a blue star can make a white companion appear yellow or orange. I USED to see beautiful deep maroons, reds, brick red greys in the Orion Nebula until one time I tested the contrast effect and kept the green out of the field of view. ALL red vanished.
Im truly suspect of a lot of red claims. Alan MacRobert once claiming to see the North American Nebula as "blackish red" with a 6" f/8 is purely suggested illusion via previous knowledge. And from outside Boston of all places.
Pete
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blb
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/25/05
Loc: Piedmont NC
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: azure1961p]
#5272477 - 06/15/12 09:21 AM
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Im truly suspect of a lot of red claims. Alan MacRobert once claiming to see the North American Nebula as "blackish red" with a 6" f/8 is purely suggested illusion via previous knowledge. And from outside Boston of all places.
SMOG no doubt gave him this illusion.
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David Knisely
Postmaster
   
Reged: 04/19/04
Loc: southeastern Nebraska
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: azure1961p]
#5272923 - 06/15/12 02:15 PM
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In my experience red is merely a contrast effect of seeing the typical green that emission nebula often reveal. Same way a blue star can make a white companion appear yellow or orange. I USED to see beautiful deep maroons, reds, brick red greys in the Orion Nebula until one time I tested the contrast effect and kept the green out of the field of view. ALL red vanished.
Im truly suspect of a lot of red claims. Alan MacRobert once claiming to see the North American Nebula as "blackish red" with a 6" f/8 is purely suggested illusion via previous knowledge. And from outside Boston of all places.
Pete
Well, I am not so dogmatic as to suggest that such claims are illusionary. I do see some faint reddish hues in certain parts of M42 and M8 in moderate to large telescopes, although the color does not have much in the way of saturation. I once checked this with two filters I use: the Orion Ultrablock (which is a narrow-band filter that has a single blue-green passband), and the DGM Optics NPB filter (which has a deep red secondary passband in addition to the main blue-green passband). On M42 in my 14 inch Newtonian at 63x, the Ultrablock showed only the bluish-green hues, while the NPB filter showed both the bluish-green sections as well as some areas which did show some faint reddish hues. The plain and simple fact is that some people can see various colors in some of the brighter emission nebulae while others can't (it comes down to eye differences and not some kind of illusion). As for the Trifid, it isn't as bright as M42 is and I don't recall seeing much color in it last year, but I will check again with the 14 inch and see what can be seen. Clear skies to you.
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drollere
Pooh-Bah
   
Reged: 02/02/10
Loc: sebastopol, california
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: David Knisely]
#5273212 - 06/15/12 04:31 PM
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In my experience red is merely a contrast effect of seeing the typical green that emission nebula often reveal. Same way a blue star can make a white companion appear yellow or orange. I USED to see beautiful deep maroons, reds, brick red greys in the Orion Nebula until one time I tested the contrast effect and kept the green out of the field of view. ALL red vanished.
i share pete's and glenn's skepticism about the apparent color. but i'm also a great admirer of individual differences in color vision, and the hazards of blanket edicts on the possible.
the L ("red") cone remains sensitive even out to the spectrum limits in light at very low levels, and i wouldn't rule out a degraded color percept based in part on contrast with the "achromatic" rods, especially if the L and M ("green") cones adapt at different rates. but that would be a conjecture.
i have not seen color in nebulae of any type, in any aperture up to 28". and it is widely understood in color vision research that "memory color", including color remembered from photographs, can tint the appearance of an achromatic image of an object remembered as having a characteristic color. this is most common when the object has a relatively unsaturated color to begin with (wood, grass, horizon sky, etc.), and more easily confused with gray.
chromatic contrast seems an unlikely mechanism, because if the contrast hue is the background sky, then the typical range of sky colors (blue to violet) would produce an orange or yellow contrast (and yellow never appears at low illuminance levels because it depends primarily on luminance contrast). however a dimension of magenta/green contrast is the principal axis of color seen across a very large range of luminance levels, so it's possible that plays some role in brightness variations viewed at low luminance levels.
it would be very helpful if people who claim to see color in nebulae would report their aperture, magnification, type of viewing (direct or averted, continuous or roaming, etc.) and so on. knisely's report is excellent.
the retinal receptors fully regenerate their photopigments within a half hour to one hour. there is an exponential tail that continues to improve after that at the rate of a molecule here and there, but the incremental improvement in sensitivity is extremely small and below any just noticeable difference. daylight exposure without sunglasses should not produce a deficit that lasts into dusk. (damn, i got dogmatic.)
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Matt2003
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/22/10
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: drollere]
#5273498 - 06/15/12 07:59 PM
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I am not a skeptic in this color matter, in regards to M.42. M.20? That is another matter entirely. I see not even the usual blue or green-grey hues of bright nebulae here. In fact, of all the Messier nebulae this is the faintest to my eyes. M.8 only shows white, but M.20? Looks like a very fine mist. This is from my orange backyard though. I have yet to have the pleasure of viewing the Sagitarius area under truly Black skies. Someday..
Clear skies, Matt
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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/18/08
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: Matt2003]
#5273526 - 06/15/12 08:26 PM
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Howard,
At the end of the first paragraph in your previous post you stated that it helped to have been familiar with the parts of M20 which were red and blue, and that you wouldn't have noticed the color if you weren't looking for it. If this does not raise the proverbial flag warning of observational bias, I don't know what will.
The reason larger apertures 'accentuate' color is because the larger image scale covers more retina and allows to discriminate finer details. At given exit pupil diameter, all telescopes deliver the same image surface brightness (discounting for the moment the small differences due to transmission characteristics.) This is an inviable law of optics.
Stars are another matter, for they remain essentially as points. And so as aperture increases one gains access to color perception for ever fainter stars.
I've tentatively determined that for saturated colors, detection of such requires a surface brightness no fainter than about 19 magnitudes/square arcsecond. Outside of planetaries, very few nebulae are this bright. From memory, the brightest parts of M20 are somewhere around 21 MPSAS. And that applies to the O-III/H-beta emission lines, which if they were bright enough would be seen as the same greenish as found in M42 (the brightest bits of which are a very bright 14 MPSAS.) Compared to the O-III/H-beta lines, the dark-adapted eye's sensitivity to the red H-alpha line is at the very best a mere 1/10. And so if no green is seen, it's virtually certain no red will be either. And from the experience of many re. M42, that green has got to be mighty bright indeed before red is perceived; and the jury's still out on that one...
And reflection nebulae, while shining over a broader spectral range, are virtually all also of too-low surface brightness to elicit a color response.
Sometime I should go over my own personal database of nebula surface brightness, mostly *estimated* from the calibrated all-sky image mosaic of Desktop Universe, in order to identify those brighter specimens in which amateurs might ascertain detectable color.
Edited by GlennLeDrew (06/15/12 10:24 PM)
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azure1961p
Postmaster
   
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5273817 - 06/16/12 01:02 AM
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David,
There is a lot of difference in color perception from one person to another, sure. A lot of folks see green in planetary nebula where as I tend to see a bluer green - if color can be seen. I think I was a little liberal in the illusory statement but I am convinced it plays a bigger part than many might suspect and it makes sense that it would exist especially in a realm thats often so threshold. Your filter observations are interesting and revealing.
Pete
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azure1961p
Postmaster
   
Reged: 01/17/09
Loc: USA
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5273834 - 06/16/12 01:27 AM
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Howard,
At the end of the first paragraph in your previous post you stated that it helped to have been familiar with the parts of M20 which were red and blue, and that you wouldn't have noticed the color if you weren't looking for it. If this does not raise the proverbial flag warning of observational bias, I don't know what will.
The reason larger apertures 'accentuate' color is because the larger image scale covers more retina and allows to discriminate finer details. At given exit pupil diameter, all telescopes deliver the same image surface brightness (discounting for the moment the small differences due to transmission characteristics.) This is an inviable law of optics.
Stars are another matter, for they remain essentially as points. And so as aperture increases one gains access to color perception for ever fainter stars.
I've tentatively determined that for saturated colors, detection of such requires a surface brightness no fainter than about 19 magnitudes/square arcsecond. Outside of planetaries, very few nebulae are this bright. From memory, the brightest parts of M20 are somewhere around 21 MPSAS. And that applies to the O-III/H-beta emission lines, which if they were bright enough would be seen as the same greenish as found in M42 (the brightest bits of which are a very bright 14 MPSAS.) Compared to the O-III/H-beta lines, the dark-adapted eye's sensitivity to the red H-alpha line is at the very best a mere 1/10. And so if no green is seen, it's virtually certain no red will be either. And from the experience of many re. M42, that green has got to be mighty bright indeed before red is perceived; and the jury's still out on that one...
And reflection nebulae, while shining over a broader spectral range, are virtually all also of too-low surface brightness to elicit a color response.
Sometime I should go over my own personal database of nebula surface brightness, mostly *estimated* from the calibrated all-sky image mosaic of Desktop Universe, in order to identify those brighter specimens in which amateurs might ascertain detectable color.
I appreciate all your points Glenn. In the face of that are a lot of folks who simply dont want to give up their red color perceptions - and accompanying notions. Not to say some folks are not seeing the real deal here but Ive got a strong lean that a lot of claims are erroneous, color contrast effects. Astonishingly convincing even, in fact so good, some folks dont want to challenge it. I think the red *sightings* are so coveted, no one, or few seem to want to test it.
Pete
Edited by azure1961p (06/16/12 01:30 AM)
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David Knisely
Postmaster
   
Reged: 04/19/04
Loc: southeastern Nebraska
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: azure1961p]
#5273861 - 06/16/12 02:02 AM Attachment (13 downloads)
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David,
There is a lot of difference in color perception from one person to another, sure. A lot of folks see green in planetary nebula where as I tend to see a bluer green - if color can be seen. I think I was a little liberal in the illusory statement but I am convinced it plays a bigger part than many might suspect and it makes sense that it would exist especially in a realm thats often so threshold. Your filter observations are interesting and revealing.
Pete
The exact color that is seen with most planetaries is usually called a sort of "sea green" (bluish with a hint of green or greenish-blue). The OIII lines (4959 and 5007 angstroms) sit right at the point of the visual spectrum where blue and green seem to blur together, so it is not surprising that different people describe the hue differently. Below, I have tried to duplicate that color in a drawing I did of NGC 7009. The H-Beta line (4861 angtroms) appears somewhat more bluish than green, and it is generally not one of the stronger emission lines in planetaries, so the bluish-green or greenish-blue of the OIII emission is the color most often reported. It is a quite commonly reported hue in the observational literature for the past century, and, as I have easily seen it even without a filter, I see no reason to doubt accounts of that color being seen on some of the brighter emission and planetary nebulae. Indeed, those who can't see even this blue-green or green-blue color in M42 probably won't see much color in any deep-sky object.
The reds are another story, as most people can't see red at the lower light levels present in many nebulae. Still, I can see a little of it even without a filter. One example is the "Raspberry Nebula", the planetary IC 418 in Lepus. Even in my 10 inch, I can occasionally see the faint reddish tinge on its outer edges that give the object its name (in the 14 inch, I can see the reddish edge fairly easily). The middle of the nebula is more bluish in color, but at least at lower powers, I can get the reddish fringe. Another nebula which shows some faint red is the tiny planetary "Campbell's Hydrogen Star" (PNG 64.7 + 5.0) in Cygnus. In my 9.25 inch SCT, it shows a distinct reddish-orange hue, making this tiny planetary fairly easy to identify.
On filters, back around 1990, a friend of mine and I had our two 10 inch Newtonians out at our club's observing site (an old decommissioned Atlas missile silo south of Lincoln, Nebr.) and were using our "new" Lumicon OIII filters. M42 was visible in the east, so I put my scope on it and put in the OIII filter. I was a little shocked at what I saw, as there were some definite faint reds showing up in some parts (47x). My friend put his 10 inch on it and put in his OIII, but he only saw the bluish-green of the OIII line contribution. We took our filters out and compared them. My OIII had a huge "red leak" secondary passband, while my friend's did not. Once we got to swapping filters, my friend now saw the reds using my filter. This is what first convinced me that the faint reds that are sometimes reported are real for those who have eyes sensitive enough to detect color at low light levels. Eventually, Jack Marling of Lumicon found out about what we saw, and we sent him both our filters for analysis (I suggested he leave in the red passband, but later OIII filters eliminated it). I also recall one night in deep twilight when I had my "read leak" Lumicon OIII filter in my 10 inch and put the scope on M8. I was shocked to see almost the entire nebula appear distinctly reddish, with the exception of the very brightest part around the "hourglass nebula" and the very faintest outer tendrils. My new 2" Lumicon OIII does not have any red transmission, so with that filter, I no longer see any red in M42, but thankfully, I have the DGM Optics NPB filter. Indeed, after performing my M42 "experiment" with my 14 inch, I came home and was delighted to find that the areas that I saw red in M42 with the NPB were the same ones that showed reddish or orangish hues on my huge David Malin color print of the sword of Orion which hangs in my living room.
With the Trifid, the object has a mix of OIII, H-Beta, and continuum (reflection) emission. For that reason, I generally will use either a broad-band LPR filter like the Orion Skyglow or Lumicon Deep-sky, or no filter at all. The NPB and OIII filters help the object, but they tend to shrink the main Trifid portion a little, as well as really dimming the adjacent reflection nebulosity (especially the OIII filter). Thus, at least under a dark sky, the broad-band filters generally provide the best view of the Trifid. Interestingly enough, the main Trifid section appears the very largest in extent in the Lumicon H-Beta filter, although again, I like a broad-band filter for it the most. The broad-band filters generally just give a faint "sky blue" hue to nebulae bright enough to show color, but on the Trifid, I don't know if it will be bright enough to trigger any color hues even in my eyes. Still, I will take a good look the next time I get a chance to see the nebula. Clear skies to you.
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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/18/08
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: David Knisely]
#5274259 - 06/16/12 12:09 PM
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Another factor to consider. The nebular light must compete with natural airglow and, if present, artificial light pollution. If the sky and the object both have a surface brightness of 20 MPSAS, their contributions are equal and so the color will be an admixture of both sources. The perceived color is of course 'filtered' by the response curve of the eye.
When the object is lower in the sky (as M20 is for us mid-northerners), higher sky brightness naturally contributes more to the luminance, further 'washing out' the contribution from the object.
David's observations using an early O-III filter having a red 'leak' which passed the H-alpa line illustrates this. By blocking the great bulk of sky glow, the feeble (to the human eye) red emission could then be perceived.
I should think that the litmus test for the possibility of detecting red in any particular emission nebula is whether anything can be seen through a narrow-band H-alpha filter. With essentially ALL masking sources of light removed, if no glow--even if apparently colorless--is seen, then the chance of glimpsing red otherwise must be virtually zero.
And always consider the colors of masking sources. Both airglow and artificial light have red components which should be expected to contribute to the total visible aspect.
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Matt2003
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/22/10
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5274800 - 06/16/12 07:59 PM
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To this day, the brightest color I have seen with my OIII was actually M.42. It was a pretty, frosty blue. Not the greenish tint I have seen for years. But this is also, with an 8 inch scope, the only Diffuse nebula I have EVER seen any color in. PNs are another matter, but usually greenish-bluish. Interesting point about skyglow contamination Glen, I never would have thought of that one.
Clear Skies, Matt
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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
   
Reged: 06/24/03
Loc: Los Angeles
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Re: Color in the Triffid Nebula
[Re: Matt2003]
#5276140 - 06/17/12 08:12 PM
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Lab tests have shown that when two gray squares, side-by-side, are illuminated at such a low level we can barely see them with dark-adapted vision, and each square is illuminated at very slightly different levels, the brain sees the brighter of the two as greenish and the fainter of the two as reddish. It's a real phenomenon, with the brain providing colors for our perception to help display differences in brightness.
The colors are spurious, and, truly unfortunately, happen to correspond to the wavelengths of strongest emission in nebulae--hydrogen alpha (red) and Oxygen III (greenish-blue).
So when there are claims of seeing reddish or greenish hues in nebulae, first take the claim with a grain of salt (because you could have thousands of testimonials--ALL spurious) and then do a little investigation to see if your own experiences seem to match a particular set of circumstances.
For instance:
1) If ALL nebulae seem to display a reddish tint then distrust your eye. But if only a couple do, and do not do so on a consistent basis, you may be seeing real colors.
2) If, at the same site, some observers see colors, while others do not, and the color-observers are those with the largest scopes or the most visual observing experience, the colors seen may be real.
3) If, at the same site, colors are never seen on nights of mediocre transparency and darkness, while on nights of superior transparency and darkness many observers remark about the colors seen, then the colors seen may be real. On a personal level, I have seen colors in M8 and M20 once in a blue Moon, but not on a regular basis. And the nights where I have seen colors were spectacularly dark (mag. 21.7+).
4) If the colors seen cover not only the obvious red and green, but also blues, beiges, yellows, and a host of reddish and purplish hues, then the perceived colors may be real. On a personal note, I once observed the Orion Nebula and saw so many hues that I drew a map of where I saw the colors in the nebula and compared the drawing with color photographs later--the color photographs showed the same hues in exactly the same places I had noted them. And I do not see these colors all the time. On the night I saw a rainbow of hues, people around me with scopes down to 4.5" were inquiring whether other observers could see the colors they could.
5) some colors are pronounced enough MOST observers see them. We do, after all, have nebulae named "Blue Snowball", etc. BECAUSE most observers see colors in them. The threshold of visibility, alas, varies from person to person.
To get back to the Trifid: One spectacular night I saw the reflection nebula completely surrounding the emission nebula, and the coloration was distinctly a bluish gray compared to the ruddy appearance of the emission part. This was through more than one scope, but none smaller than 12.5". I have looked for it several times since and have failed to pick up evidence of color or, for that matter, to visually see the reflection nebula completely surrounding the emission nebula. On the same night I observed nebulosity connecting M16 and M17, showing me they were merely bright points in the same multi-degree wide nebula. I haven't seen that since, either.
So where is the threshold of TRUE color perception, as opposed to SPURIOUS color perception? Supposedly, it occurs when the brightness level of the seen object exceeds about magnitude 18 per square arc-second, but I take that finding with a lot of reservations. I've participated in group experiments wherein the visibility of a threshold star varied over two full magnitudes among people who were all observers (!), and probably all of those had more experience detecting threshold stars than did the people participating in the threshold color perception tests. So that level may simple be way too pessimistic for veteran observers under superbly dark skies.
I, for one, think that many reports of the seeing of colors in bright objects like the brightest nebulae and planetaries are legitimate, and reflect on the seeing of true colors in the objects. Just not ALL reports.
And yes, nebula filters with passbands in the blue-green and deep red DO seem to show the presence of the reds better than no filter used. I think the contrast enhancement brings the color perception above the threshold.
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