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Equipment Discussions >> Video and Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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James Cunningham
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Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5334263 - 07/25/12 07:13 AM

How many seconds was this image?

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John59
sage


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5334390 - 07/25/12 09:40 AM

There is no documentation stating exactly what 1024 is in relationship to time. It is however all about sensitivity.
Here is a source I found.

http://www.cctvdynamics.com/what-is-sense-up-an-introduction-to-and-explanation-of-the-most-misunderstood-security-camera-feature.html


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GlennLeDrew
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5334838 - 07/25/12 01:35 PM

If you want to know how long is the exposure, simply count seconds between image updates. This is easy if you stop tracking the target...

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StarmanDan
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Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5335316 - 07/25/12 06:21 PM

Quote:

Also got wireless rs-485 working with the OSD. So that will help speed the testing.




What software is recommended for RS-485 control?


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Hemmi
super member


Reged: 09/08/10

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5336952 - 07/26/12 04:23 PM

Not bad at all for that focal length. Glad to see the noise is not that bad. If you have time can you share what settings you used. Thanks

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Hemmi
super member


Reged: 09/08/10

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5336956 - 07/26/12 04:27 PM

Quote:

How many seconds was this image?




for NTSC the calculation is 1024(SENS UP) * .01667(1/50) = 17.06 sec
for PAL the calculation is 1024(SENS UP) * .02(1/50) = 20.48 sec


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James Cunningham
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Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Hemmi]
      #5336961 - 07/26/12 04:30 PM

Thats almost as good as my Mallincam which uses a less sensitive chip. I get a slightly brighter image at 15 seconds.

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GlennLeDrew
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5337792 - 07/27/12 01:41 AM

Hemmi,
In your first formula for the NTSC camera, the duration of 0.01667 seconds corresponds to 1/60, not 1/50.

Incidentally, the inclusion in brackets of the two explanatory terms ("SENS UP", and "1/60" and "1/50" in each formula can be confusing; best to leave them out, in case someone tries to do the math with them.


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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5340436 - 07/28/12 05:47 PM

Folks, after spending a few hours yesterday and now today on the topic of 'all sky' cameras, my Google searches have led me to your *very* interesting discussion

After researching the Orion StarShoot Allsky and Moonglow Technology AllSky Cam, and concluding that I could not afford/justify either one, and then becoming even more depressed when seeing the images from the Alcor Systems All Sky camera, I stumbled across discussions of those that have used the Samsung SDC-435/SCB-2000 (affordable!) and SCB-4000 (not affordable!) video cameras for this purpose. Then I wanted to know if even more recent tech had been discovered, and found myself here

I realize that there are a couple of big steps between merely ordering a security camera like the Aliexpress ones, and acquiring the appropriate lens (fisheye in my case) and climate-proof enclosure to pull this off -- but for around $75 CDN to get started, it is attractive.

Questions so far:

- Is the conclusion so far that *both* the Aliexpress cameras are identical electronically -- just the size being different?
- Sounds like these are superior in price and features compared to the Samsung cameras?
- Anything special I need to do to insure that X1024 mode works?
- Is there anything I need to be aware or careful of if I intend to have this running 24x7 pointed at the sky?

As a favor, can one of you guys just point up into the clear night sky with a 'normal view' lens so that I/we can see how sensitive they are for picking up stars? My assumption is that no one has a fisheye lens to test with (hmmm...I have a Nikon Coolpix FC-E8 fisheye lens -- wonder if I could make it work somehow?).

Thanks


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StarmanDan
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Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5342233 - 07/29/12 07:20 PM

I've used an SCB-2000 as an all sky cam and can attest that is works very well as such. Here is a shot from last year during the Perseids. Being in a green zone, the Milky Way is clearly obvious and stars down to about 3rd mag are visible with a 1/2 sec exposure.



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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: StarmanDan]
      #5342765 - 07/30/12 03:05 AM

I have used a Fisheye on my Samsung SCC-A2333/SCB-4000 in absolutely dark sky (I live out in the country in Australia) and found that anything over x256 was getting too bright.

The brightness of the Milky way was striking.
But in skies with light pollution you would get a different result.

Sorry I never grabbed any images while using the Fisheye.
I must do that in case more people want to know
I will also use it with the mallincam to see the difference.

Now, to wait until the thing called 'clear sky' returns one day


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5343184 - 07/30/12 11:13 AM

Perhaps the astronomy gods will at the very least give you a break on your birthday Ken.



Happy birthday to the "nasty" moderator (aka Captain Cloud) ... you're doing a great job.


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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5343771 - 07/30/12 04:31 PM

Thanks for the fisheye image posting, and also the offer to get/post another one.

To answer just one of my own questions, the Nikon FC-E8 lens is (I think) 8mm focal length, so even if it were possible to attach it to a C-mount video camera, it would no longer be the 'fisheye' that I was looking for (I think).

From lots of Googling, though, it doesn't look that difficult to find inexpensive (cheap?) fisheye lenses with C/CS mounts:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/320939352394?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-designed-wide-angle-1-58mm-IR-lens-mega-pixel-panoramic-lens-board-camera-lens/314425_523843593.html

Am I correct?

It just might be possible for me to achieve a basic 'all view' video solution for under $100 CDN, which would be great. Still waiting for more feedback, though. Also very concerned that removal of the IR filter (if really necessary for my goal) is much more difficult/risky that is apparently is with the good old SDC-435/SCB-2000

Edited by darethehair (07/30/12 04:42 PM)


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StarmanDan
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Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5343883 - 07/30/12 05:50 PM

The lenses you listed would work but because of the lack of auto iris you might want to fashion some sort of cover for the lens during the day to keep the sun from burning the sensor.

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jambi99
sage


Reged: 08/14/10

Loc: Québec, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5344085 - 07/30/12 07:48 PM

Happy birthday kent!

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GlennLeDrew
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: jambi99]
      #5344608 - 07/31/12 02:43 AM

The FC-E8 fisheye is an afocal converter, meaning it can be adapted to many lenses already attached to cameras. The only three requirements are:

- That the two lenses can be 'interfaced' properly. The camera's lens must be able to be placed sufficiently near to the add-on lens.
- That the camera's lens have a sufficiently wide field to take in the full circular image produced by the add-on lens.
- That the camera's lens be not too physically large; but this by itself is not necessarily a deal breaker.

Before seeking out a C-mount fisheye, first try out your Nikon with a 'normal' lens of fast f/ratio; I think it should work well.

Note that with afocal add-on lenses, as long as its rear lens is sufficiently large with respect to the camera lens's entrance pupil, the system works at the f/ratio set on the camera's lens. So if you obtain, say, a 6mm f/1.3, the fisheye when attached will be working at f/1.3.


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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5345818 - 07/31/12 06:27 PM

A couple of new points:

- So far I have only been able to find one 'fisheye' CS-mount lens with auto iris, and the approximate cost (sadly) is about $86USD:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/432782989/Auto_Iris_Lens_1_31mm_Auto.html

However, the manufacturer tells me that their 'fixed iris' fisheye lens line has much better optics (and they are also quite a bit cheaper), so my desire for an 'all sky' fisheye lens with the safety of an auto iris seems expensive *and* a compromise for image quality

- I had kind of assumed that AliExpress used 'PayPal', but instead they use an 'Escrow' service. Since some of you guys have obviously used this successfully, is this just a matter of registering/using a credit card just like any other online purchase?

EDIT: Still hoping for some consumer advise re: my last question here. Don't want to get 'burned' doing the wrong thing, or even worse someone racking up my credit card bill in fraud

Edited by darethehair (08/02/12 10:24 AM)


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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5345855 - 07/31/12 07:00 PM

Quote:

I ordered the smaller version as shown in the previous post. I know it does not have remote connections, however I have lived without one for some time and I do like the compact design. I'll let everyone know how it fairs as a comparison.




John, I have noticed that the power port on the smaller model (that you purchased) is not the stripped wire ('speaker wire style') that the larger model is. Instead, it looks like a plug ('laptop power plug style'). Am I correct?

Also, knowing that there is no RS485 control in the smaller model is causing me a bit of a quandary (not knowing very much at all about this interface) -- what are we potentially 'giving up' by this? I realize that this means physically pushing buttons, rather than (possibly) controlling using software at a PC -- but why would I want to do so? Also, I do not understand if this means running another wire down to the PC, or is this somehow carried along the video cable? Sorry for my ignorance!


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James Cunningham
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Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 [Re: darethehair]
      #5345919 - 07/31/12 07:49 PM

To use the RS485, you will need a power source. If you have a Celestron mount, you can purchase a security camera power splitter. If you have a Meade mount, you will need to get the same power splitter but you will need one of those tips that plug into the Celestron size and has a Meade size on the other end. I have done both. If you need web sites, let me know.

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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5346025 - 07/31/12 09:22 PM

Jim,

There are RS485 to RS232 adapters that don't require external power. They get their power from the RS232 side but the software that controls the RS232 serial port must enable handshaking so the higher voltage lines are enabled.

I have an RS485 adapter on my Mallincam (green led) that doesn't require external power, it works great as long as the right software is used with it.

With the Samsung and Sony security cameras I don't know the particulars of the various options that control the camera (PC software or external hand box) so I don't know what choices folks will have.


Celestron power plugs are 2.1mm x 5.5mm, Meade are 2.5mm x 5.5mm


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