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Equipment Discussions >> Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5346033 - 07/31/12 09:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I ordered the smaller version as shown in the previous post. I know it does not have remote connections, however I have lived without one for some time and I do like the compact design. I'll let everyone know how it fairs as a comparison.




John, I have noticed that the power port on the smaller model (that you purchased) is not the stripped wire ('speaker wire style') that the larger model is. Instead, it looks like a plug ('laptop power plug style'). Am I correct?

Also, knowing that there is no RS485 control in the smaller model is causing me a bit of a quandary (not knowing very much at all about this interface) -- what are we potentially 'giving up' by this? I realize that this means physically pushing buttons, rather than (possibly) controlling using software at a PC -- but why would I want to do so? Also, I do not understand if this means running another wire down to the PC, or is this somehow carried along the video cable? Sorry for my ignorance!





It is the standard 12VDC connection found in any Radio Shack store. Which I do like better than the two wire lug type. I have a case dedicated to power set ups and have several of the Car AUX 12VDC adapters with cables (what used to be called cigarette lighter adapters)

The second question is that the only thing you give up without having a remote is not having to touch the camera. Some folks do not like touching the telescope/camera once in position. Many reasons (damping time etc.) but it has simply never been an issue for me.


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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5347986 - 08/02/12 12:17 AM

Well played around with it quite a bit more tonight.
Lessons learned:
1. Camera will default back to last saved settings if you leave it unattended. i.e. I made some setting and while observing it suddenly reset and was back to a previous setting from another night. Now I exit and save after every change.
2. using Alberio for color reference I found that ATW with R-Y and B-Y set to max 255 gave good colors of the gold and blue.
3. Leave SENSE UP to OFF
4. Use ELECTRIC I to get all exposure ranges from 1/100000 up to X1024.
5. BIG find...make sure GAMMA is set to 1. Anything else is just too bright and washes out the screen.
6. Not sure about the AGC. Tried all settings LOW/MIDDLE/HIGH and did not see a difference. Will continue with this another night.
7. Seemed to do better with WB imaging filter. However was pleasently surprised with how well it performed with a full moon in the sky.
More later.

Edited by John59 (08/02/12 12:18 AM)


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James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348291 - 08/02/12 08:02 AM

Thats what we need - some real testing. What is a WB filter?

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Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5348322 - 08/02/12 08:31 AM

Wide Band. He's referring to a light pollution filter versus a Narrowband (Ha, SII, OIII).

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James Cunningham
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348340 - 08/02/12 08:45 AM

What about the other settings. What did you set the brightness level on? And what about the Exposure? Thanks.

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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348468 - 08/02/12 10:22 AM

Quote:


3. Leave SENSE UP to OFF





This one is very puzzling to me! If 'ELECTRIC' does what is intended (re: X1024), then what does 'SENSE UP' do?

Of course your findings are extremely useful, but even better would be something to explain *what* these various settings do, even if you have determined which ones to use or not use.


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nytecam
Postmaster


Reged: 08/20/05

Loc: London UK
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5348609 - 08/02/12 12:11 PM

Hi guys - I've trawled every 200+ posts on this cam thread looking for some sample DSO pics via this cam - any luck yet or should I stay to my Lodestar ?

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scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5348692 - 08/02/12 01:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:


3. Leave SENSE UP to OFF





This one is very puzzling to me! If 'ELECTRIC' does what is intended (re: X1024), then what does 'SENSE UP' do?






Sense Up- the function- creates a limit for automatic exposure- it tells the camera how far to go when it is trying to automatically expose the image.

In lens (ie- ELECTRONIC) you are setting it manually and the camera does not 'hunt around' trying to correctly expose.


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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5348756 - 08/02/12 01:44 PM

The brightness setting has always been set to zero.
For now until I can figure out if AGC requires another menu combination it is set to LOW
I took several snapshots and video of M57 last night but have not gone through them. That will be tonight with posting afterwards. I am staying with M57 for now to look for changes both good or bad while I learn and understand the cameras menu/setups and best combinations. Once I am satisfied with M57 I will move on to another object with different visual requirements and see what changes the camera requires.


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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: John59]
      #5348904 - 08/02/12 03:31 PM

More questions:

- Did you guys order with regular 'HK Post Air Mail' or 'DHL'? As a Canadian, it sure looks like DHL would slap an additional 'brokerage' fee of between $7 and $15 (from Google searches) on top of the shipping fee

- What effect is removal of the IR filter have on 'daytime/regular' imagery? I would not imagine that it would have any (negative) effect on the color or whatever, but you guys can tell me for sure

Thanks


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James Cunningham
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/07/10

Loc: Maryland
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349091 - 08/02/12 05:28 PM

The guy who sells them has free shipping from China.

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scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349149 - 08/02/12 06:12 PM

Quote:

What effect is removal of the IR filter have on 'daytime/regular' imagery? I would not imagine that it would have any (negative) effect on the color or whatever, but you guys can tell me for sure




Well- I have not taken mine off so I cannot tell you for sure- and this partiucular filter- to my eye at least looks fairly mild- it does not have the deep blue color of other low pass filters I have seen on CCTVs- anyway, in general if you take these off then your color images will shift towards looking red and you have to manually adjust the color balace back.

Also- for night viewing you will need to add back in a uv/ir cut filter designed for astronomy or use a mirror only system (no reducer) and still have to manually color balance- this is in regards to IR bloat on stars.

You can take off the filter and use cctv lenses but you have to make sure they are IR corrected lenses.


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budman1961
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5349172 - 08/02/12 06:30 PM

Maurice,

Based on the tribulations so far, I cant imagine selling my rock-steady lodestar for this camera....... Maybe im wrong, it seems that the cam isnt up to the task!

Andy


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Hemmi
sage


Reged: 09/08/10

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: budman1961]
      #5349251 - 08/02/12 07:35 PM

The debate is still out, but I agree...No reason to buy or change. Alot more testing needs to be done on these cams before any real determination can be made.

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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: scout72]
      #5349300 - 08/02/12 08:42 PM

Quote:

Well- I have not taken mine off so I cannot tell you for sure- and this partiucular filter- to my eye at least looks fairly mild- it does not have the deep blue color of other low pass filters I have seen on CCTVs- anyway, in general if you take these off then your color images will shift towards looking red and you have to manually adjust the color balace back.




Am I correct in assuming that the manual 'color balance' adjustments on the camera are sufficient to restore a 'normal' view in the absence of the IR filter i.e. for daytime viewing?

Quote:

Also- for night viewing you will need to add back in a uv/ir cut filter designed for astronomy or use a mirror only system (no reducer) and still have to manually color balance- this is in regards to IR bloat on stars.




Forgive my ignorance (again), but could you elaborate? I thought that everyone was trying to *remove* the IR filter for the purposes of enhanced astronomical views?

Quote:

You can take off the filter and use cctv lenses but you have to make sure they are IR corrected lenses.




I'll have to look for those filters -- I cannot imagine that they would be expensive to purchase (?).


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darethehair
member


Reged: 09/11/09

Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349315 - 08/02/12 08:50 PM

FYI:

I contacted Elaine, the contact person mentioned on the pages for these cameras, asking her a few extra questions (very helpful and friendly!) and one of her answers surprised me, and she gave me permission to post the following statement with her OK:

Elaine has offered the option of ordering either one of these X1024 cameras without the IR filter installed if we send her a note requesting it that way.

In my opinion, this makes these cameras even more attractive than they already are to the video astronomy community

Comments? Any reason NOT to do this, especially if it can be somehow compensated (in a much more flexible way) via color balance setting on the camera, or purchase of some add-on filter?


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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 new [Re: darethehair]
      #5349521 - 08/02/12 11:25 PM Attachment (139 downloads)

Yes, Elaine is great!
Here is my results from last night.
The Ring in full frame.
This and following photos are with the 12inch dob, WB filter and in the city under street lights and a well lighted school across the street.
The upper left glow is from street lamps not amp glow. other shots do not have the glow that are pointing away from the light source.
Can not wait until darker skies site this Friday.

Edited by John59 (08/02/12 11:35 PM)


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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 [Re: John59]
      #5349523 - 08/02/12 11:26 PM Attachment (101 downloads)

The ring a little more exposure and cropped.

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John59
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/06/11

Loc: Round Rock,TX
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 [Re: John59]
      #5349525 - 08/02/12 11:27 PM Attachment (115 downloads)

Here is Alberio. Used to adjust color scaling

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scout72
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/12/08

Loc: SF Bay Area
Re: 17 sec (x1024) Camera Sony 960h Exview HAD CCD2 [Re: darethehair]
      #5349588 - 08/03/12 12:44 AM

Quote:


1. Am I correct in assuming that the manual 'color balance' adjustments on the camera are sufficient to restore a 'normal' view in the absence of the IR filter i.e. for daytime viewing?


2.Forgive my ignorance (again), but could you elaborate? I thought that everyone was trying to *remove* the IR filter for the purposes of enhanced astronomical views?

3.I'll have to look for those filters -- I cannot imagine that they would be expensive to purchase (?).





To answer:

1. In theory yes- in other cameras it works this way but with this one not sure yet- not sure yet what the optimal settings are- in one of the manual modes with this camera color balance is locked out- hope that is not the optimal exposure mode....

2. Well, yes- that is correct- but it is not REALLY an IR filter that is being removed- it is an optical low pass filter that happens to block IR- it is not optimized for Astronomy and may block some other stuff we want (Like HA). Very specific to lens systems though is the issue of IR bloat (or UV bloat) - the way lenses bend light is different than the way mirrors bend light - and with lenses the different wavelengths come to focus at different points- there are specific lenses that are designed to correct for this or you use a filter that is designed specific for astro purposes.

3. I think the Astronomik branded uv/ir cut filter (also called a luminance filter) is around $30 in the 1.25 " size- others may be more like 40-50 or more depending on the brand. I have used the Astronik one and thought it was fine.


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