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Observing >> Double Star Observing

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desertstars

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Reged: 11/05/03

Loc: Tucson, AZ
New Double Star Observing Project (II) new
      #5283652 - 06/22/12 11:10 AM

Finally had a chance to continue on with the project of checking a list of 30 double stars (taken from the Astronomical League's original double star observing club list), used as observing targets for the local club's beginners observing program. These pairs (and trios) were picked with the idea that they would be relatively easily located and observed by beginners using apertures as small as 60mm. (I’m using the 60mm f/11.8 refractor I’ve had since I was a teenager, now supported by an Orion AstroView EQ tripod and mount. eyepieces: 17mm Celestron SMA and 10mm Sirius Plossl.) In the set below I discovered yet another example of how, when compiling such a list, separation is not the only parameter that needs to be considered.

Observations made 19 June 2012. NELM 4.5 with moderately good seeing and a temperature at 9:00pm MST (4:00 UT) of 92°F.

24 Comae Berenices
I tell the beginners group here that one of the advantages of double star observing is the ability to observe these objects from home. No need for truly dark skies. If you can find them, you can observe them. 24 Com proved a good example of how finding the target (without GOTO) can be the challenge, not the observation itself. I found it quickly enough, but someone new to all of this, under comparable conditions, would probably need to work at it. In my small refractor the pair displayed a definite contrast in magnitude, with a warm yellow primary and a pale blue companion. The two were easily separated even at 41x. A good target for beginners, once they find it.

Kappa Bootis
Right at the edge of naked eye visibility, near enough to go straight to it with a finder scope. It was no challenge at all to split with the 60mm refractor, at 41x, though I found I liked the view better at 70x. No real colors were seen, with the primary a cool white and the companion a sort of grayish-white. I expect old time writers might have called the companion “ashy gray.” The magnitude contrast (4.6 vs. 6.6) was quite noticeable.

Zeta Coronae Borealis
Another one that flirted with naked eye visibility, and proved easily located. The components of this pair were pretty tight using modest aperture and relatively low (70x) magnification, but they were still easily separated. There was some contrast in magnitude, almost none in color, with both components having a sort of flat white look, with maybe a hint of blue to the primary. A good test for a beginner with a small telescope, but not what I’d call a show piece object.

Delta Herculis
Not a problem to find, being a third magnitude star and easily seen under my normal conditions. The trick was spotting the companion. The components are fairly close (for this telescope) but not to a degree that would ordinarily be a problem. The contrast in magnitude (3.1 vs. 8.2) presents a challenge. In that small scope the components were near enough that the companion was often lost in the glare of the primary (70x). At first glance, it seemed I’d focused on the wrong star! An example of why I tell beginners to be careful about trusting first impressions. The primary was white, and the companion appeared colorless – when it appeared at all.

Xi Scorpii
This proved to be an attractive and easy target for a small telescope. The magnitude contrast was significant, but not to the point of the fainter star being lost in the glare of the primary. Color contrast was easily seen, with the primary pale yellow and the secondary a cool blue. As a bonus, STF 1999 was also visible in the field, easily split at 70x and revealed as a pair of relatively faint, colorless stars of nearly the same magnitude.

Beta Cygni
Last for the night, though certainly not least. No challenge to find and observe with the Old Scope, but if I’m going to work this list, I should work all of it. Nice contrast in magnitude, beautiful colors of warm yellow and blue, and easily separated. The very definition of a show piece double star, whatever magnification I used. This is the probably the second double star I ever observed (many years ago), and is the one that introduced me to the concept of color contrast in double stars. Any excuse to revisit this old friend is a good one.


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VanJan
sage
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Reged: 07/09/08

Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: desertstars]
      #5283746 - 06/22/12 12:23 PM

Kudos to you for taking on this project. I'm sure it will be useful and appreciated by the beginners in your club.

What finderscope are you using on your 60mm?

I can see that 24 Comae Berenices might be a bit of a challenge for a beginner under marginal skies. The double does form a large equilateral triangle with Denebola and Vindemiatrix, but that will only get one in the vicinity. Some star atlas skills might be needed to confirm one is aimed at 24 Com and not some other Flamsteed numbered star in Com. Then again, that finderscope to star atlas confirmation is a valuable skill and lesson in itself for a beginner, which, in this case, isn't too awfully difficult.

Please keep us posted on your project and how it fares once in the hands of those for which it is intended. Cheers!


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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/07/10

Loc: Davison, Michigan
Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: VanJan]
      #5283826 - 06/22/12 01:07 PM

24 comae definitely a very beautiful target(s). I think you might have skirted past lambda bootis when you were looking at/for kappa bootis. They make a nice pair of pairs. If you find one, the other is right next door.

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desertstars

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Reged: 11/05/03

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) [Re: buddyjesus]
      #5284139 - 06/22/12 04:39 PM

I've got a small red dot finder on the Old Scope, and although I find it useful enough (I already knew where to look for 24 Com) I don't recommend such to beginners in light polluted skies. An good finder scope helps a lot, under such conditions. I also use a small pair (8x42) of binoculars to sort of scout out an area when observing at home, to give a sort of heads-up before using the finder.

Lambda Bootis? Or did you mean iota Bootis?


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Ed Whitney
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Reged: 07/08/10

Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: desertstars]
      #5286026 - 06/23/12 10:24 PM

Really nice report Tom! I enjoyed reading it very much.

Small scopes work nice for beginners because it shows that they can work great for splitting doubles and it builds necessary skills that will be used with other scopes should they decide to persue the hobby further.

Red dot finders always seem to work better for me on all the other scopes I've had. To use them efectively thou, I've found that you really need to know the FOV that you get with any particular eyepiece. Essentially, the telescope is doing double-duty as the "finder" and the "scope". It's a good system, but you do need to be able to star-hop a bit too.

BEST!


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5288092 - 06/25/12 09:33 AM

On my 10" Dob, the finder is a 70mm refractor ... plus a Telrad. But for a 60mm, a red dot finder and a low-power wide-field finder eyepiece for the telescope should be sufficient.


Mike


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desertstars

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Reged: 11/05/03

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5288345 - 06/25/12 12:03 PM

If you have enough naked eye stars to guide you, and know the sky pretty well, a red dot finder is plenty for any sort of telescope. Someone new to object location, working under my normal conditions (with any size telescope) would find 24 Com hard to find using just a red dot finder. So I don't recommend red dots as stand-alone finders to newbies. To get them in the right area so they can more effectively use a finder scope - absolutely. Red dots can serve the same purpose on a small scope that a Telrad or Rigel can for something like my 8" Newtonian. But optical aid of some sort makes all the difference(IMO) between a frustrated suburban astronomer, and someone who comes away from the experience believing it to be do-able.

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: desertstars]
      #5288431 - 06/25/12 01:29 PM

A 60mm refractor is midway between the standard 50mm finder and my 70mm finder. My point is that a 60mm refractor is more-or-less a finder scope in itself.

The advantages to a red-dot or red-circle finder are that the view is in the natural orientation (not upsided-down or reversed) and you are looking straight at the sky, not sideways through a diagonal. A 60mm refractor is small enough that once the general location of an object is attained with the red-dot finder, a star hop can be made using a low-power wide-view eyepiece in the telescope itself.

Then the "finder" eyepiece can be switched out for a higher power eyepiece. This switch is easier, of course, if the telescope is secure and well-balanced on its mount, and even easier if the mount tracks.

Or instead of a "finder" eyepiece and a higher power one, just use a zoom eyepiece. Then no switching is necessary.

However, the problem with using a "finder" eyepiece in a small refractor with a mirror diagonal is that the image will be right-side up but reversed right-to-left. That makes it very difficult to star hop using a star atlas.

In contrast, modern RACI finders (Right Angle Correct Image) allow a star hop to be more easily made by following a star chart. The image will be in the natural orientation, the same as the naked eye and the star map. That is the one great advantage to an optical finder, even on a small refractor. That's why if I'm star hopping with a small refractor or Mak, I do like to have a little RACI optical finder on the telescope.

But what about straight-through optical finders? A major problem with them is that they turn the image upside down. I know that when I first started out, I hated having to turn the star maps upside down. It's bad enough reading maps with a dim red light in the dark, but having to read upside down is too much. So IME & IMO a straight-through optical finder is not ideal.

Worse than that are finders which are right-angle and right-side-up, but reversed right-to-left. (Thankfully, there are not many like that around anymore.) True, that will match the view of refractors with a mirror diagonal, but it does not match star maps. Special backwards maps will have to be printed or the newbie will have to use a laptop with software to reverse the maps. But all of this complicates things for a newbie. The less confusion the better.

Of course, we can get around all this by putting the small telescope on a goto mount. No, please don't go there! Let's don't spoil the newbies! Let them learn something about getting around the night sky.


Mike


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Ed Whitney
sage


Reged: 07/08/10

Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5289282 - 06/25/12 10:27 PM

Well said Tom and Mike.

The simplified approach to locating doubles is to learn the important patterns of the brighter recognisable stars. But first locate the target in a planetarium program or star map and then locate a bright naked eye star to use for reference that's close to your target. Then note the degrees and general direction your target is from that star. Essentially, the more homework you do inside, the easier it will be outside.

Then, with a wide-field ep, bullseye the brighter star under the red-dot finder. Then move the red-dot aprox the calculated amount of degrees so you "know" the target is definitely in the FOV. The eyepiece chosen to "find" the target is always a wide-field type and the FOV it gives you is something you must memorize. Like Tom notes above, he uses two eyepieces alone to find and observe and/or split the target.

After many years of toying with glass finders and the inherent frustration they seem to cause, have settled on only the red-dot & star-hop method.

The one main thing I LIKE about the red-dot unit on any scope is the precision that they can be adjusted to the point where placing the red-dot exactly OVER a star with an eyepiece that gives 200x and then seeing that star dead center in the eyepiece! You know with perfect certainty what you're observing.

And a few words about "goto". Well, "it's nice" to have, but when trying to help newcomers enjoy this hobby, do feel that learning to star-hop is absolutely vital and should perhaps be the very first way they learn the sky, even if they find it a bit difficult at first. After learning to star-hop, using goto will be better appreciated.


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brianb11213
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Reged: 02/25/09

Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
Re: New Double Star Observing Project (II) new [Re: Ed Whitney]
      #5289559 - 06/26/12 04:45 AM

Quote:

The one main thing I LIKE about the red-dot unit on any scope is the precision that they can be adjusted to the point where placing the red-dot exactly OVER a star with an eyepiece that gives 200x and then seeing that star dead center in the eyepiece! You know with perfect certainty what you're observing.



OK, it works for you, fine.

What I like about an optical finder with magnification is that (a) the accuracy of placement is improved (by the magnification), (b) the extra light grasp cuts through the light pollution, twilight, moonlight etc. and allows me to find objects by means of charts even in relatively barren areas of the sky.

Quote:

And a few words about "goto". Well, "it's nice" to have, but when trying to help newcomers enjoy this hobby, do feel that learning to star-hop is absolutely vital and should perhaps be the very first way they learn the sky, even if they find it a bit difficult at first. After learning to star-hop, using goto will be better appreciated.



I agree entirely. The goto works when you know what you're doing, but until then it's just a steep learning curve, with the strong possibility that you'll end up looking at the wrong star & wondering why you can't split that double which should be easy in your scope.


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