Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
A Dirty Dozen new
      #5283281 - 06/22/12 03:41 AM

The curmudgeon rears his ugly head:

First, I must say I know that forums like Cloudy Nights are a great places to meet new friends, express ideas, and learn (that’s “ideas and learn” if you’re a fan of the Associated Press). However, of late I have seen so many wishful (read unrealistic) newbie posts, I felt I just had to stick my 2 cents worth in.

It seems so many folks are prone to spend the astronomical sum of $69.95 for a new binocular and then spend the next 6 month running quasi-scientific tests on the device hoping to be able to quantify properties they’re not yet ready to understand!

On more than one occasion, I have shared some of the stupid things—concerning optics—I have done. If lens designer, Dick Buchroeder, ever shared any of my early correspondence with us, I would have to slit my throat out of embarrassment . . . even as a young adult. That, of course, is how we learn.

Still, there are some truisms that should be understood early on in the realm of being a binocular enthusiast. Some follow:

1. If you want the performance of an 800 to 1,000 dollar bino, you have two options. Spend $800-$1,000 and buy one! When you do, more than likely you can spend your time observing and not visiting the collimation threads where the best of intentions often produce faulty information at light speed.

Or, systematically and consistently make the rounds of thrift stores and pawnshops. These merchants usually don’t know the value of what they have (relative to optics anyway) and will sometimes offer you a great deal.

For example, I saw a $600 Fujinon FMT-SX (with case) for sale for $150. Showing the salesperson it was totally out of alignment I said “Is this your price for a binocular that’s totally useless?” Calling the manager over, it was determined that since the company had a liberal return policy and probably no one would even want to buy it, anyway, it was determined that they should get what the could. Thus, I became the owner of a $600 binocular I could repair in my sleep, and which gets consistent kudos from most on CN, for $100.

At another pawnshop, amid all the $29.95 plastic paperweights, I found a 1907 Zeiss 6x30 for $7.00! It had been passed over for more modern looking . . . JUNK! I paid my $7.00 and sold the instrument to a collector a few days later for $250, KNOWING he was going to sell it to one of his contacts in Japan for $500!

Yes, not only CAN it be done; it IS being done EVERYDAY! Just as the pen is mightier than the sword, determination is mightier than the whine and excuse.

2. There isn’t a line of consumer binoculars made in the United States—period! And, there hasn’t been for decades. And saying “What about . . .” isn’t going to change that reality.

3. Learn the difference between barrel distortion and curvature of field. The aberration most observers call curvature of field . . . isn’t.

4. Only for the value of learning should one be dwelling on the myriad tests read about. It is human nature to try to justify a purchase by even going so far as bending the truth into a pretzel. The experienced will know you’re being foolish; and the foolish won’t care.

5. Lacking the funds to buy the binocular you want does not elevate the one you DID buy in performance. A sow’s ear does not become a silk purse simply because you can’t afford a silk purse.

6. With whatever you buy—BE HAPPY! And don’t buy another binocular until YOU can list the reasons WHY the instrument you have is not good enough for your needs. The net is full of folks anxious to help YOU spend YOUR money to buy the binocular THEY have always wanted. Don’t lose a friendship; but don’t take your hand off your wallet, either.

7. Learn the rule of thumb that says the more words on the backplate the lesser the quality of the instrument. “Datsuns and Chevy’s have racing stripes; Porches and Jags don’t need’em!”—Cory Suddarth

8. Good advertising doesn’t have to be accurate or meaningful; it only has to be believed. The hobby is rife with charlatans; ask around.

9. Beware of buzzwords you don’t understand. The word “aspheric” for example has no magical powers except for generating sales. It’s the proper execution that does the trick. Also, do you really want to spend 1/3 more for an ED binocular when a non-ED model might cost $100 less and have better correction? If YOU can’t SEE the difference . . . save your money.

10. Friends don’t let friends buy zoom binoculars. A very FEW are getting better, but we’re not there, yet. Thus, the traditional wisdom applies. The Leica Duo-Vid is NOT a zoom; it’s a 2-power.

11. Consider: If “Ruby Coatings” are as good as the say, why don’t Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski have them throughout their lineup? Also, if you think some Asian company that no one had ever heard of until recently has a better research and development team than the 3 companies just mentioned, please nail your car keys to the kitchen wall and help our children stay safe.

12. Get over the idea that binoculars used in World War II are “better than anything we have today.” Sturdy? Yes. The best in their day? Yes. Better than most of the stuff being sold at less than about $200? Yes. Better than a quality instrument sold today? No way, Jose! I’ve repaired hundreds. If you need something to believe in, Santa Clause has been taking a real beating, these last few years!

Humbug, Bah! . . . Bless you all.

Curmudgeon, out.

BillC

PS This memo was generated in recent months, and has been held so that the slight inspiration would not be offended.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Man in a Tub
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: BillC]
      #5283315 - 06/22/12 05:29 AM

Great read, Bill. Thanks.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Simon S
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/07/07

Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: BillC]
      #5283376 - 06/22/12 07:28 AM

[quote ]12. Get over the idea that binoculars used in World War II are “better than anything we have today.” Sturdy? Yes. The best in their day? Yes. Better than most of the stuff being sold at less than about $200? Yes. Better than a quality instrument sold today? No way, Jose! I’ve repaired hundreds. If you need something to believe in, Santa Clause has been taking a real beating, these last few years!



Pointed my way I think


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kcolter
sage
*****

Reged: 06/04/03

Loc: Missouri, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: Simon S]
      #5283379 - 06/22/12 07:39 AM

A post filled with wisdom and cunning linguistics.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mercedes_sl1970
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/02/05

Loc: Canberra, Oz
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: kcolter]
      #5283435 - 06/22/12 08:37 AM

Thank you, Bill, for another dose of adroitly put bino wisdom.

Andrew


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
simpleisbetter
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 04/18/11

Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: kcolter]
      #5283443 - 06/22/12 08:41 AM

Wise words and good advice Bill, especially #6. A little rewording and it fits any of the equipment forums, especially the Eyepieces & Refractors forums.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5283678 - 06/22/12 11:32 AM

Was it a 7x50 FMT you found in that pawn shop Bill?

I live in hope of bumping into a Prostar like that one day...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: Simon S]
      #5283742 - 06/22/12 12:20 PM

Quote:

[quote ]12. Get over the idea that binoculars used in World War II are “better than anything we have today.” Sturdy? Yes. The best in their day? Yes. Better than most of the stuff being sold at less than about $200? Yes. Better than a quality instrument sold today? No way, Jose! I’ve repaired hundreds. If you need something to believe in, Santa Clause has been taking a real beating, these last few years!



Pointed my way I think




Logical, but nope:

You are the LEAST of my worries. Besides, you are so friendly and helpful, I gotta stay on your good side!

I have had to deal with that philosophy MANY, MANY times as a merchant! People are always building golden calves.

BillC


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: RichD]
      #5283753 - 06/22/12 12:26 PM

Quote:

Was it a 7x50 FMT you found in that pawn shop Bill?

I live in hope of bumping into a Prostar like that one day...




Yep! And I think it was AFTER I sold EdZ my second Prostar that I learned my son had taken and pawned my first!!!

BillC


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: kcolter]
      #5284216 - 06/22/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

A post filled with wisdom and cunning linguistics.




That reminds me; I had linguistics at Olive Garden just last week. Their salads are fabulous, too!

BillC


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Man in a Tub
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: A Dirty Dozen [Re: BillC]
      #5284259 - 06/22/12 06:10 PM

I don't believe you. Linguistics is a Portuguese sausage.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
simpleisbetter
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 04/18/11

Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: Man in a Tub]
      #5284285 - 06/22/12 06:31 PM

So that's what they use in their sausage-potato soup

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
The Mekon
member


Reged: 01/19/08

Loc: Bowral NSW Australia
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: BillC]
      #5284322 - 06/22/12 06:57 PM

No 7 is a gem - also applies to the amount of colouring used!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mapleton
sage


Reged: 12/06/09

Loc: United States
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5284324 - 06/22/12 07:00 PM

Good job, grumpy ol' binocular user. =D

You forgot a bit about permafocus and autofocus binoculars though. I'd rather have ruby coated zooms than a permafocus.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: Mapleton]
      #5284346 - 06/22/12 07:15 PM

Quote:

Good job, grumpy ol' binocular user. =D

You forgot a bit about permafocus and autofocus binoculars though. I'd rather have ruby coated zooms than a permafocus.




I've harped on that one so much, I thought I would give it a break!

BillC


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
daniel_h
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/08/08

Loc: VIC, Australia
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: BillC]
      #5284355 - 06/22/12 07:22 PM

The sows's ear is my favorite, just ahead of the racing stripes

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
edwincjones
Close Enough
*****

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: simpleisbetter]
      #5284359 - 06/22/12 07:24 PM

Quote:

Wise words and good advice Bill, especially #6. A little rewording and it fits any of the equipment forums, especially the Eyepieces & Refractors forums.





true wisdom

edj


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
brentwood
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/04/05

Loc: BC Canada
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5284369 - 06/22/12 07:31 PM

#7, Zoom Binoculars. I fully support this one as only just last night at the opening day of the new 'Sails' store, I did an 'intervention' of a woman at the binocular counter who was trying to decide between one of the three 'Zoom' models they had on offer. Of course the salesman, wasn't nearly as impressed, even after I told him I was BillC from Seattle, and did my best American accent!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillC
on a new path
*****

Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: brentwood]
      #5284377 - 06/22/12 07:43 PM

"Be sincere, even if you don't mean it."

Sincerity is the key to success; once you can FAKE that, you've got it made!-- Mark Twain

BillC


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rydberg
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 02/25/04

Loc: Richmond, KY, USA
Re: A Dirty Dozen new [Re: BillC]
      #5284443 - 06/22/12 08:54 PM

Oh, boy. Now he even has the 12 steps of Curmudgeon-dom...

Don't feed him after midnight

A higher-ed ballistic vomitus friend


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
2 registered and 36 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  knuklhdastnmr, panhard 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 2163

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics